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Boutte available for trade?

Correct. Givens worked his way into the player he become.. as a 7th rounder he spent the entire offseason on the JUGS machine and got in sync with brady while on his rookie deal.. back then we ran the ball firstly our wrs were possession guys.. branch and givens were our true outside the numbers guys.. I'll say this again if and when Boutte gets traded he's going to an NFC team and best hope it's not with The Cardinals with Jacoby Brissett.

Wolf would easily trade Boutte to an AFC team. He isn't Justin Jefferson or Ja'Marr Chase. Boutte isn't guaranteed to start this season whether he stays with the Pats or is traded away. Players like that you take the best offer no matter what conference the team making the offer is in.

If the Patriots are truly trading for him and looking for a third day draft pick, they clearly don't see Boutte as good as you do. They are not going to care where he goes because they don't think he will make that big of an impact to make a difference.
 
If I was looking for a slot receiver I might give up a late round pick for him. He’s probably better suited for that job. The Pats used him outside more out of necessity than a desire to.

He's not really a huge fan of getting hit over the middle.

Last year he took it when he had to, but before he seemed to shy away.
 
Wolf would easily trade Boutte to an AFC team. He isn't Justin Jefferson or Ja'Marr Chase. Boutte isn't guaranteed to start this season whether he stays with the Pats or is traded away. Players like that you take the best offer no matter what conference the team making the offer is in.

If the Patriots are truly trading for him and looking for a third day draft pick, they clearly don't see Boutte as good as you do. They are not going to care where he goes because they don't think he will make that big of an impact to make a difference.
On Jefferson with those 2 dwarf QBs I'd keep an eye on that situation because if they struggle this year O'Connell is gone and Jefferson will want out.. let me clarify Rob. You and I are on the same page here. Boutte I like him as you and we all do.. but as I've said often if Boutte is getting sound advice from people he entrust and he choosing to ignore then that is on him. He had 2 seasons where he showed promise nothing ground breaking. Now this had us wowed because the wr position had been so devoid of talent for years.
 
He's not really a huge fan of getting hit over the middle.

Last year he took it when he had to, but before he seemed to shy away.
I like getting hit over the middle...
 
Boutte's years 2 and 3 are superior to Doubs years 2 and 3.
Doubs year 4 saw his career high in yards of 724, on almost double the targets as Boutte.
Doubs saw his big payday after year 4. no reason why Boutte can't see a similar or bigger payday, if he has a season 4 like he did in season 3. he is a 23 years old WR ready to play a show me season to grab a big deal.
its funny that some posters point to his lack of targets as his issue, and his lack of yards as his issue.
he caught 70% of his targets. he caught those targets at a 16+ yards per catch.
if Brown goes elsewhere, and Boutte stays and gets 80+ targets, he puts up better numbers than Doubs.
 
No. Saying his yards where down because he didn't get the ball enough is about about as foolish as it gets and an oxymoron. Doubling down saying he was as open as anyone else is even worse. You are trying way too hard defending Boutte.

Mack Hollins was not brought to be the #2 WR which he ended up being. He only played one more game than Boutte, yet he had almost 20 more targets and 14 more receptions with less snaps than Boutte. And two of the 3 games Hollins missed were at the same time Boutte missed his games starting in week 14. With all that said, Boutte led Hollins by one measly yard. It's amazing were even discussing this.
you are embarassing yourself
I implore you to stop
Hollins is nice. he is 33 years old in his last season
Boutte is 23 years old, hunting a big payday. he is ready to break out to a big season.
 
Boutte is 23 years old, hunting a big payday. he is ready to break out to a big season.
Last year was Boutte's big breakout.

He's played max snaps for two years in a row with Drake Maye.

If he was going to become a serious receiving threat, it would have happened already.

He's not going to get taller, faster or quicker at 24 years old.
 
Boutte's years 2 and 3 are superior to Doubs years 2 and 3.
Doubs year 4 saw his career high in yards of 724, on almost double the targets as Boutte.
Doubs saw his big payday after year 4. no reason why Boutte can't see a similar or bigger payday, if he has a season 4 like he did in season 3. he is a 23 years old WR ready to play a show me season to grab a big deal.
its funny that some posters point to his lack of targets as his issue, and his lack of yards as his issue.
he caught 70% of his targets. he caught those targets at a 16+ yards per catch.
if Brown goes elsewhere, and Boutte stays and gets 80+ targets, he puts up better numbers than Doubs.
500 yards receiving is 500 yards receiving... no matter how much you dress it up in diamonds and silk.
 
you are embarassing yourself
I implore you to stop
Hollins is nice. he is 33 years old in his last season
Boutte is 23 years old, hunting a big payday. he is ready to break out to a big season.
Bro, I was being nice to you earlier. Your argument/rebuttal is pathetic and a waste of everyone's time - especially what's in bold. Straight up delusion. Take the L already.
 
I am with you on Boutte's mental model and his perception of the impact of the Doubs signing. I'm not with you on whether Diggs is a 1. He clearly was. Who produced more on the Patriots? I can see the argument that he wasn't a "1" if the most productive pass catcher, by far, was Hunter Henry, the situation that pertained back in the Cam/Mac days. But with Diggs on the field, Henry is just another "role player" receiver, as far as pass catching impact goes.

They "couldn't get separation fast enough for Maye to pull the trigger," yet Maye carved up defenses all year. He ran into a murderer's row in the playoffs, and finally couldn't match the opponent vs. seattle (where he nevertheless finished with good stats, because of (1) the garbage time effect, and (2) Maye legitimately getting dialed in as the second half ground on.) In fact, you could argue that by trying to do too much, he ended up with huge negative big plays, and that's what did the Pats in... not this "true no. 1" fetish.

If you want a Top 10 guy or something, say so. Don't keep saying Diggs wasn't a 1; you just want an elite no. 1. We still don't have that, and have nowhere to get it, unless you want to substitute what Kyle Williams is "going to" be.

Diggs Rankings, 2025:
Yards: 16th. That means half the teams in the league or more would have improved by using Diggs as the no. 1.
Rec. : 12th. See above, except more like 2/3 of teams.
YPC: oh-oh. 57th. 11.9 YPC. Statistically this puts him where you'd expect a team's no. 2 receiver would be. True to form, that's exactly what he is in this metric, (no. 2 receiver, no. 3 pass catcher, including Henry) with Boutte being NE's no. 1 in YPC.
But let's check out the guys he loses out to:
Are you a no.1 receiver with less than 800 yards? Because if you're not, that knocks out 35 of the 56 guys ahead of him. Just for example. (YPC, of course, can be easily won by a specialized role player, e.g., Boutte, an outside-only guy. Diggs sort of wins that argument because you can put him where you need him and he will get open - he's not just an inside guy or an outside guy, he's a "where does he make the play work" guy.
Catch rate: 1st.
This source has him at 81%, though I calculate it as 83% (85 of 102 targets), so I don't know what else goes into their formula. Don't be fooled; the RBs are always super-high in this metric. The benefit of including this one is that they are ranked by catch rate here. He's 1st among receivers.
TDs: 42nd. Oh-ohhhh again. He only had 4 TDs. That's statistically what you'd expect from the no. 2 guy on the team. That said, no NE pass catcher even sniffed double digits. Yet somehow, the team was 5th in the league with 31. So yeah, room for improvement, but the backs and TEs might continue to vulture this stat (and yes, Boutte rang the bell 6 times.)
Games started: T1st. Pooh pooh that if you want, but I don't give a damn if you're the greatest no. 1 in the world for 10 games every season, I need another whole guy to make up for it when you're out. Diggs started every game.

So again, I'm not arguing that he's a top 10 guy. I am arguing that he was NE's no. 1 receiver last year. Our big solution, AJ Brown, doesn't get you that top 5 or top 10 guy either. There's the rub. You say "true no. 1," you mean "Top 5 - top 10 receiver." Tellingly, that's about what a "WR1" means in a 10-team fantasy league. He'll carve you up with route running, but he won't win an Olympic gold for track and field in the process. You don't have to target him an extra 40 times to get his 85 catches. But that pure burst is not his game.

The receiving corps wasn't as good as we wanted it to be last year. If it could be better, we damn well want to see that. Your view, that they just weren't good enough against the best defenses, was more true of our WRs than theirs exactly 1 time. Where we can get better, hell yes we should. But let's stop whining that we don't have a "true no. 1" when what we mean is that we're in the middle class of the league, with a no. 1 that can be contained by a strong CB.

If we re-acquire old man Diggs, it's also doubtful whether he can continue at the same level as last year. It would be nice if Kyle Williams is the diamond in the rough we want. But one thing's for sure.... none of the free agents this year fit that bill.

I get passionate about this because the "true no. 1" fetish covers up virtually every other approach to gaining productivity. Yes it would be cool to have a 14-TD, 1700-yard beast. There are like 2 or 3 of them. God help the league if we got one.

But until then we can't keep "analyzing" the problem as being that we don't have those special players. Yes, we need to get better, especially with Diggs off the team and a year older even if we get him back. Brown isn't that guy. Kyle Williams most likely isn't either. (but surprise us, Kyle!)

That doesn't mean we should be giving up, saying "oh no we just don't have any receivers" because we don't have an elite receiver. Yes, we had a number 1 last year.

We have to cope with being in the pack in terms of who our no. 1 is. The nice thing is, most teams do.
You have interesting things to say, but I have to admit you would get a lot more people to read your posts if you cut them in 1/2.
 
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Boutte is 23 years old, hunting a big payday. he is ready to break out to a big season.
He's going to have a career similar to Deion Branch. It would be a mistake give up that kind of production.
 
He's going to have a career similar to Deion Branch. It would be a mistake give up that kind of production.
That's an insult to Deion Branch who beat out veterans Troy Brown and David Patton to be the go to WR by his 2nd season. He was also a Super Bowl MVP. Boutte allegedly wanting to run away from competing against Doubs, Hollins and Williams is a major red flag.
 
That's an insult to Deion Branch who beat out veterans Troy Brown and David Patton to be the go to WR by his 2nd season. He was also a Super Bowl MVP. Boutte allegedly wanting to run away from competing against Doubs, Hollins and Williams is a major red flag.
Yep. I was going to say Patton but Boutte is better. Brown was declining due to age....still one of my all time fav Patriot players.
 
Bro, I was being nice to you earlier. Your argument/rebuttal is pathetic and a waste of everyone's time - especially what's in bold. Straight up delusion. Take the L already.
He just took an old post and subsituted :Boutte for "Thornton".
 
Yep. I was going to say Patton but Boutte is better.

I think that's a good comparison, and maybe Boutte is marginally better.

Patton had a solid NFL career, but played on 5 different teams. Lasted here 4 years.

Nice guy to have at the right price, but was easily replaceable.
 
Yes, we could keep Boutte through camp in case of injuries (like Bourne was). I see Brown/Doubs as a major improvement over Diggs/Boutte.

#1 WR Brown is an upgrade over Diggs
# 2 WR Doubs is an upgrade over Boutte
#3 WR Hollins remains the same
==========
#4 WR Williams will be a backup outside, perhaps a bit better than last year.
#5 WR Douglas will be a backup slot receiver, probably at about the same level as last year, perhaps a bit better
#6 WR Chism (or UDFA replacement) is about the same or on the Practice Squad.
 
Boutte's years 2 and 3 are superior to Doubs years 2 and 3.
Doubs year 4 saw his career high in yards of 724, on almost double the targets as Boutte.
Doubs saw his big payday after year 4. no reason why Boutte can't see a similar or bigger payday, if he has a season 4 like he did in season 3. he is a 23 years old WR ready to play a show me season to grab a big deal.
its funny that some posters point to his lack of targets as his issue, and his lack of yards as his issue.
he caught 70% of his targets. he caught those targets at a 16+ yards per catch.
if Brown goes elsewhere, and Boutte stays and gets 80+ targets, he puts up better numbers than Doubs.

Lack of targets is an issue. He was the Pats' starting X WR. On most teams, the X is WR #1. He should be targeted more than every other WR on the team. He is playing the position where the QB should be relying on to move the chain consistently and drawing the best coverages. Mack Hollins had 19 more targets.

Again, Boutte is a good player, but nothing special. He is probably better suited for the Z, but he borderline starter.

Doubs is better. He also wasn't for the X where the Packers played him. He is more suited for the Diggs' roles as a hybrid slot/Z receiver.
You are also not accepting that Doubs and Boutte played for two different systems with two different QBs (actually three since Love missed games last year and Willis filled in for him).

You can look at the stats all you want. Stats don't really tell you much in the NFL. And you have shown you can manipulate the stats in a vaccum to say whatever you want. For example, you keep on saying Boutte caught 70% of his targets, but you fail to mention that Diggds caught over 83% of his passes and Hollins caught over 70% of his passes. That speaks to the accuracy of Maye more than the abilities of Boutte. If Boutte's reception percentage was outside the norm, it would mean something. But his catch rate is in line with the starting receivers.
 
Breer seems to be a guy who’s not afraid of taking a wild ass guess that something might happen. Although I agree, it wouldn’t shock me to see Boutte move.
Oh no!!!Anything less than a first DC we would be getting absolutely hosed...
 
he caught 70% of his targets. he caught those targets at a 16+ yards per catch.
That’s a good point that probably isn’t talked about enough. For example: Douglas only caught 57% of his targets with Maye throwing to him. Not a big fan of drops.
 
Boutte turns his story around, becomes increasingly productive every year, has great chemistry with your star (and still developing) QB...and you guys love to want to trade him. *sigh*

I don't think anyone " wants" to trade. Boutte, people just realize that it's the likely outcome because he isn't showing up. I would love to see Boutte sign a 3 year deal for $36, but I think it's likely that he is looking for something closer to 4/$80, and they aren't going to do that. It's the same distinction with Gonzalez, I'm a big fan and consider him a top 3 corner, and I would love to see him get a 4 year $120 extension, but if he wants to be paid like Myles Garrett or Will Anderson they will have to trade him. Ultimately you have to put together a great team to win championships, and you can't do that with 2-3 guys eating up 40-50% of the cap. So people recognizing that a trade is a serious possibility doesn't mean they are down on the player, but more that they recognize a deal won't get done, so a trade is the likely outcome.
 
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