Bolden's back

[The Brandon Five]

Ok, I sense the board is getting a little restless...

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

I don't entirely disagree, but I can see Bill at least trying to use Burkhead in a more prominent role offensively if he makes the team. He seems to have the talent and hands that Bolden simply does not.

BB knows what he has in Bolden, which is an excellent special teamer who can play RB in a pinch. With the Burkhead signing, I'm sure they'd want him to step up to a more prominent role than that. There is just not much on Burkhead's resume to suggest that he has the capabilities. Yes he looked good in that 1 game last year, but theres still a lot of speculation there.

I'm just not getting my hopes up until preseason and hopefully he'll flash.

 

[DarrylS]

Gotta huge softspot for UDFA's who make this team and defy the draftniks..

 

[PatsBoy12]

BB knows what he has in Bolden, which is an excellent special teamer who can play RB in a pinch. With the Burkhead signing, I'm sure they'd want him to step up to a more prominent role than that. There is just not much on Burkhead's resume to suggest that he has the capabilities. Yes he looked good in that 1 game last year, but theres still a lot of speculation there.

I'm just not getting my hopes up until preseason and hopefully he'll flash.

Yeah, that's kind of why I used words like "trying" and "seems." LOL I don't know much about him aside from some of the good things I've heard. Burkhead signed the kind of contract that have some believing he's not just going to be a ST's guy.

I think people (maybe not you, not sure) believe this signing means Bolden is a roster lock. He isn't. Some speculated he was on the bubble last TC, and it did appear that way until the very end of camp. Bolden at RB means that everyone else is on the shelf, but I wouldn't say that means he "can play RB in a pinch." He's just not good enough out there, aside from one really good game against the Broncos and one against the Bills (IIRC), and both teams struggled mightily against the run all season. To put it bluntly, Bolden really does suck as a RB. He's an absolute beast on ST's, though, especially his body of work in 2014. That season was special. He changed outcomes of games.

 

[BTTA]

Front, side, who cares? Stick with the topic.

 

[Bradyking12]

Front, side, who cares? Stick with the topic.

Live a little

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

The front/side/upside down jokes got lost in the merge of threads.

Regards,
Chris

 

[maineman209]

How so? Burkhead has been a career special teamer thus far who started one game at running back last year due to injuries. He is unproven in anything but special teams. What do you assert his role is then?

Unless Burkhead's agent has incriminating photos of someone very high up in the Pats organization, he wasn't signed to a $3.15M contract to be a special teamer. Slater ($1.59M) - a 9-year veteran, the Pats' ST Captain, and a regular Pro-Bowler as a special teamer - is making about half what Burkhead was signed for, as are Ebner and Bolden.

The Pats are paying Burkhead to be a lead rusher. In fact, they're paying him more than they've have paid any lead rushers in several years, so they're pretty confident he's going to be successful, apparently. As such, he won't be playing many special teams snaps, especially not in coverage.

 

[maineman209]

You are both right. Why do you think BB paid Burkhead 3.5M? As a ST'er? As a 3rd down back? As a 1st down back? No, he's at least a 3, possibly even 4 down player, and was paid like one. I expect we'll be seeing a lot of him in most Off & ST situations.

If you check snap count distributions, you'll see that lead rushers for the Pats don't lay ST snaps unless they're a designated punt/kick returner. For that matter, none of the starting offensive players or key rotational players on offense get ST snaps aside from OL guys and the occasional TE blocking for Pats' FG and extra point attempts. [Develin is a bit of an exception to this.]

Burkhead won't be risked on ST snaps, especially not in coverage units.

 

[mgteich]

Many posters believe that special teamers are just backups at some other position. Every year, Belichick disagrees and has 3-6 special teamers on the squad. Bolden is a starting special teamer.

BOLDEN, SLATER, EBNER, J JONES, KING, FREENY

Maybe, ONE of these will be beaten out as a special teamer.

 

[maineman209]

Many posters believe that special teamers are just backups at some other position. Every year, Belichick disagrees and has 3-6 special teamers on the squad. Bolden is a starting special teamer.

BOLDEN, SLATER, EBNER, J JONES, KING, FREENY

Maybe, ONE of these will be beaten out as a special teamer.

Mingo was also used extensively on ST in 2016, as was Grissom (in the 11 games he was active). Mingo, in fact, was fourth on the team in ST tackles, so it could be said that there's already a bit of a void since he walked in FA (not that the Pats were going to keep paying him as a significant defensive rotational player after contributing just 47 total defensive snaps in 2016).

Chung also played extensive ST snaps and was fifth in ST tackles. I'd guess the Pats would like to reduce his ST workload a bit, especially considering that his 201 ST snaps + 1006 defensive snaps gave him the highest total snap count on the team. Thuney was second with 1114 at OG + 81 on ST (blocking for FG and PA).

Interestingly, McCourty had the 3rd-highest total snap count (1022 on D + 142 ST), followed by the rest of the starting OL.

IOW, the Pat's two starting safeties - arguably both critical defensive pieces, and both turning 30 soon - were 1st and 3rd in total snap count, largely due to playing significant extra snaps on ST. Gotta wonder how long the Pats are going to want to keep them at that workload level.

 

[mgteich]

1) I agree that there should be one front seven player on special teams. In my construction, that player is Freeny. Last year, Mingo related Freeny. And yes, Grissom could make the team again as a backup special teamer, one that is often inactive.

I also agree that Belichick uses his starting safeties a lot on special teams. He always has done so. I don't see that changing. If he wanted to do so, keeping King is important. Perhaps, Richards can play some of Chung's ST role. If not, he should be upgraded to someone who can be the #4 safety and also play special teams.

Mingo was also used extensively on ST in 2016, as was Grissom (in the 11 games he was active). Mingo, in fact, was fourth on the team in ST tackles, so it could be said that there's already a bit of a void since he walked in FA (not that the Pats were going to keep paying him as a significant defensive rotational player after contributing just 47 total defensive snaps in 2016).

Chung also played extensive ST snaps and was fifth in ST tackles. I'd guess the Pats would like to reduce his ST workload a bit, especially considering that his 201 ST snaps + 1006 defensive snaps gave him the highest total snap count on the team. Thuney was second with 1114 at OG + 81 on ST (blocking for FG and PA).

Interestingly, McCourty had the 3rd-highest total snap count (1022 on D + 142 ST), followed by the rest of the starting OL.

IOW, the Pat's two starting safeties - arguably both critical defensive pieces, and both turning 30 soon - were 1st and 3rd in total snap count, largely due to playing significant extra snaps on ST. Gotta wonder how long the Pats are going to want to keep them at that workload level.

 

[PatsBoy12]

If you check snap count distributions, you'll see that lead rushers for the Pats don't lay ST snaps unless they're a designated punt/kick returner. For that matter, none of the starting offensive players or key rotational players on offense get ST snaps aside from OL guys and the occasional TE blocking for Pats' FG and extra point attempts. [Develin is a bit of an exception to this.]

Burkhead won't be risked on ST snaps, especially not in coverage units.

I think you're mostly on the right track, but there are situations where Butler, High, Chung or McCourty, are used on KO and P coverage. Chung and McCourty play pretty consistently on KO coverage. Collins also was used on P coverage at times as well. But I think none of them log major ST's snaps overall.

EDIT: I just saw an earlier post where you said this stuff already. My B.

 

[maineman209]

I think you're mostly in the right track, but there are situations where Butler, High, Chung or McCourty, are used on KO and P coverage. Chung and McCourty play pretty consistently on KO coverage. Collins also was used on P coverage at times as well. But I think none of them log major ST's snaps overall.

EDIT: I just saw an earlier post where you said this stuff already. My B.

No worries.

Just to add ...

The "high-use" special teamers, to me, are the guys who get between 17-22 ST snaps per game-active (includes the entire core group). McClellin came close last year with 15.6. Chung had 12.6.

McCourty - at 8.9 ST snaps/GA - is kind of in the "medium use" category, along with guys like Branch, Develin, Van Noy and Harmon.

OTOH, Hightower had only 4.1 ST snaps/GA. Collins had 3.4. Butler had zero in 2016 (though I'm sure he had some in previous seasons, especially as a rookie).

 

[long distance]

I think this thread should have some contract info:



Tough battle for Bolden to stay in NFL despite the love from Tom&Pats.

Tough deal for Bolden, hopefully not to tough on our Captain..

I hope so. Even one penny more than a one-year, non-guaranteed, no-bonus, vet-minimum contract is an overpayment.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Unless Burkhead's agent has incriminating photos of someone very high up in the Pats organization, he wasn't signed to a $3.15M contract to be a special teamer. Slater ($1.59M) - a 9-year veteran, the Pats' ST Captain, and a regular Pro-Bowler as a special teamer - is making about half what Burkhead was signed for, as are Ebner and Bolden.

The Pats are paying Burkhead to be a lead rusher. In fact, they're paying him more than they've have paid any lead rushers in several years, so they're pretty confident he's going to be successful, apparently. As such, he won't be playing many special teams snaps, especially not in coverage.

Agreed that it's a surprising amount of money for a guy that still has to prove himself as a lead back. Hopefully he'll win the job, but i worry that hes getting overpaid.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Unless Burkhead's agent has incriminating photos of someone very high up in the Pats organization, he wasn't signed to a $3.15M contract to be a special teamer. Slater ($1.59M) - a 9-year veteran, the Pats' ST Captain, and a regular Pro-Bowler as a special teamer - is making about half what Burkhead was signed for, as are Ebner and Bolden.

The Pats are paying Burkhead to be a lead rusher. In fact, they're paying him more than they've have paid any lead rushers in several years, so they're pretty confident he's going to be successful, apparently. As such, he won't be playing many special teams snaps, especially not in coverage.

While I agree with you, I wonder if that's the thought going in or do they ask him to play ST's in TC (probably definitely) and maybe just decrease his ST's snaps as he proves to be a capable lead back? I mean, has he ever had a prominent role like that in the league? Isn't he a career 3rd stringer? It'd be pretty hard for me to believe a top-tier organization like this, at least based on what we've seen to this point, would just intrust that role, minor or not, to a player unless they were fairly confident he would do the job, right?

LG finding his way back onto the roster can resolve how things play out with Burkhead for him since he'd be the incumbent. You'd have to believe he and the team will likely be going into camp with the thought process that it's Blount's job to keep. Whatever though, they'll both get touches unless one clearly separates himself.

 

[maineman209]

While I agree with you, I wonder if that's the thought going in or do they ask him to play ST's in TC (probably definitely) and maybe just decrease his ST's snaps as he proves to be a capable lead back? I mean, has he ever had a prominent role like that in the league? Isn't he a career 3rd stringer? It'd be pretty hard for me to believe a top-tier organization like this, at least based on what we've seen to this point, would just intrust that role, minor or not, to a player unless they were fairly confident he would do the job, right?

LG finding his way back onto the roster can resolve how things play out with Burkhead for him, since he'd be the incumbent. You'd have to believe he and the team will likely be going into camp with the thought process that it's Blount's job to keep. Whatever though, they'll both get touches unless one clearly separates himself.

Well, it seems like a good bet that the Pats already know everything they need to about Burkhead's ST abilities. It also seems to me that it would be a waste of his time and theirs to have Burkhead burning precious OTA/Camp practice snaps and pre-season game snaps on ST work when he ought to be intensely studying/practicing/playing the offensive playbook if he's going to assume a prominent, lead-rusher role with +/- 400 snaps and +/- 230 carries (LG had 527 snaps and 299 carries in 2016).

While Burkhead's $3.15M, one-year deal is a lot more than they'd normally pay a special teamer - or even an RB, for that matter - it's still not much in the grand, budgetary scheme of things. With Burkhead's "floor" being excellent ST work, the worst case scenario may be another Mingo situation.

When the Pats acquired Mingo, presumably to develop him into a significant rotational contributor at OLB/Edge, they also took on the last year of his previous contract - around $4M for 2016. Whatever they saw wrt Mingo's potential on defense never panned out, but he was a Top-4 special teams coverage contributor (his floor). And they let him walk when his contract was up. Again, Burkhead's deal is for one year only.

OTOH, if LG does re-sign with the Pats later this spring, or even just before Camp, I wouldn't necessarily take that as a sign that Burkhead has failed, but that there's at least some intent on the Pats' part to have them split lead-rusher duties, getting +/- 175 carries apiece (a la Ridley/LG in 2013), rather than have LG as merely Burkhead's part-time, low-snap-count backup.

Of course, at this point, they may need to offer LG something close to Burkhead's deal, which maybe reduces the odds of LG's homecoming a bit. That, and the possibility that Burkhead is only around for the one season, also maybe increases the odds that BB drafts another potential lead-rusher fairly early in this draft. It's also possible that BB also has his eye on one or another of the several young lead-rusher-type NFL RBs who will become free agents in 2018.

 

[Family]

Even though they don't compete for the same position the Bolden signing shows why LG likely doesn't fit on the team. With age and contracts there is no question the Pats will draft a RB, who they will want as backup/co-lead back this year. Lewis/White/Burkhead are also locks which means there likely will be four.

For this reason it makes more sense to keep Bolden than LG, though both will go if something better comes along. The explains the small guarantee for Bolden and likely Blount (if he's decides to accept).

Brandon Bolden (and LG) are backup plans.

 

[maineman209]

Even though they don't compete for the same position the Bolden signing shows why LG likely doesn't fit on the team. With age and contracts there is no question the Pats will draft a RB, who they will want as backup/co-lead back this year. Lewis/White/Burkhead are also locks which means there likely will be four.

For this reason it makes more sense to keep Bolden than LG, though both will go if something better comes along. The explains the small guarantee for Bolden and likely Blount (if he's decides to accept).

Brandon Bolden (and LG) are backup plans.

The Pats carried four RBs plus Bolden in 2016. DJ Foster was the 4th.