Bill the GM and His Special Teams Obsession....

[n6249c]

It appears in the case of STs that Bill is playing checkers while the rest of the NYFL is playing chess.

There was a thread here not too long ago about how many less kicks and punts are being returned these days. The new rule will probably make that number even smaller.

So, these didn’t happen? Or didn’t matter?

 

[crawhammer]

What's the state of the offense (passing game most specifically) and defense... that's my focus way ahead of evaluating the distant 3rd phase (ST). The fact is, whatever importance ST ever optimally had in the league, the NFL rules committee has been chipping away at it's relevance for many years now.

 

[PatsFan2]

With the team already being mediocre, it’s probably not wise to focus so much on special teams.

If you are relying on special teams to win you games or blaming them for loses - you are not a very good team.

Some of those winning Brady Teams had great ST's I am not opposed. You can beat some good Teams in that area it's a part of the game.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

So, these didn’t happen? Or didn’t matter?

both of those TDs could have been avoided if we had a kicker capable of putting it in back of endzone

That would be my strategy as head coach, just kick it thru the uprights every single kickoff (unless you need an onsides of course), and have them start at the 25 each time. Its better than risking giving up TDs like this, and the yardage difference between the 25 and like.. the 21 if they return it is so minimal

You're basically just rolling the dice to try and get a turnover on a kickoff if you dont kick it out of back of endzone, but while it creates opportunity for the returning team to fumble, it also creates opportunity for someone like Hines to stab you in the heart

You could also see Slater's age in the first video, he used to be blazing fast but he was outrun by Hines on that TD

on the 2nd TD, our favorite screwup Miles Bryant had a pathetic tackle attempt.. made full contact and the runner bounced right off like he was made of rubber

 

[Steve102]

So, these didn’t happen? Or didn’t matter?

Pffft. Special teams have no impact on the outcome of the game. Bill is a clueless, dottering old man. Chess vs Checkers. STs don't matter.

 

[Zuma]

I’m not a big fan of special teams only players. “Games were lost because of poor ST play”…ok but we shouldn’t be in that position in the 1st place. If the offense or defense had better players then we wouldn’t have to worry so much about ST players. Paying more to get better ST players takes away from getting better quality players on offense and defense.

Special Teams lost us a game or 2 last season but so didn’t a lot of aspects of the team including coaching.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Stupid thread.

Saying placekicking, punting and kick coverage and returns are meaningless is ignorant.

Saying a football team should not invest in talent to maximize opportunity in that aspect of the game is also ignorant.

 

[PatsFan2]

both of those TDs could have been avoided if we had a kicker capable of putting it in back of endzone

That would be my strategy as head coach, just kick it thru the uprights every single kickoff (unless you need an onsides of course), and have them start at the 25 each time. Its better than risking giving up TDs like this, and the yardage difference between the 25 and like.. the 21 if they return it is so minimal

You're basically just rolling the dice to try and get a turnover on a kickoff if you dont kick it out of back of endzone, but while it creates opportunity for the returning team to fumble, it also creates opportunity for someone like Hines to stab you in the heart

You could also see Slater's age in the first video, he used to be blazing fast but he was outrun by Hines on that TD

on the 2nd TD, our favorite screwup Miles Bryant had a pathetic tackle attempt.. made full contact and the runner bounced right off like he was made of rubber

And BB rewarded that guy guess he didn't see that return tape.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I’m not a big fan of special teams only players. “Games were lost because of poor ST play”…ok but we shouldn’t be in that position in the 1st place. If the offense or defense had better players then we wouldn’t have to worry so much about ST players. Paying more to get better ST players takes away from getting better quality players on offense and defense.

Special Teams lost us a game or 2 last season but so didn’t a lot of aspects of the team including coaching.

So it lost us two games but it's not important?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

most of our day 3 draft picks are special teams players! It appears he is seriously committed to improving special teams play.

 

[Wozzy]

League MVP Aaron Rogers got bounced from the playoffs in 2021 due to special teams... the ST's coach got fired afterwards.

It all came to a head in the playoff loss to San Francisco with three season-killing mistakes. The first was a blocked field goal just before halftime in which veteran defensive tackle Tyler Lancaster didn’t block Jimmie Ward. The second came on the kickoff to start the second half, with Deebo Samuel taking the ball to midfield to set up the 49ers for a field goal. The third was the back-breaker. With Green Bay clinging to a 10-3 lead late in the game, Jordan Willis bull-dozed snapper Steven Wirtel. The personal protector, safety Henry Black, was too busy running out on coverage to help. The punt was blocked and scooped up for the tying touchdown.

That was a 13-point swing in a game the Packers lost by three points. For the pièce de résistance, the Packers had only 10 players on the field for the field goal that ended the season.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/packers-fire-special-teams-coordinator-maurice-drayton-after-months-of-empty-words

Special teams don't matter... sounds legit.

 

[Ring 6]

Im not sure where the idea comes from that the Patriots “invest big” in special teams. Having lower salary guys who play special teams almost exclusively instead of guys who suck at a position and contribute nothing there but play special teams isn’t investing big.

 

[Zuma]

Im not sure where the idea comes from that the Patriots “invest big” in special teams. Having lower salary guys who play special teams almost exclusively instead of guys who suck at a position and contribute nothing there but play special teams isn’t investing big.

Are they lower salary? I’m not asking you to show proof but we do pay a premium for gunners, protectors and such.

 

[Ring 6]

Are they lower salary? I’m not asking you to show proof but we do pay a premium for gunners, protectors and such.

Yes it is lower salary. There 1 st at 2.1 mill one st 1.6 and slater is 3rd at 1.3. No other st only is above the top 51

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Stupid thread.

Saying placekicking, punting and kick coverage and returns are meaningless is ignorant.

Saying a football team should not invest in talent to maximize opportunity in that aspect of the game is also ignorant.

Agreed, it would be a story if it came out that the Rams had a deal in place to trade us Cooper Kupp in 2019 but Belichick decided he'd rather have Justin Bethel. I'm just not seeing any examples of difference making talent on offense or defense we've lost or refused to sign because we kept a special teamer.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

He is obsessed with ST players because they are cheap and easy to find and he thinks they make a huge difference in game outcomes.
Even if their importance diminishes, they are still cheap to sign and easy to find.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Show me the specific stats of special teams injuries vs that which would have been non only special teams injuries ... I want to see the science not the drama.

 

[archstanton543]

He is obsessed with ST players because they are cheap and easy to find and he thinks they make a huge difference in game outcomes.
Even if their importance diminishes, they are still cheap to sign and easy to find.

If it were that cheap and easy, every team would have a stellar ST unit.

 

[50-yard-line]

This thread is amazing - it has CHANGED MY MIND!
We shouldn't have drafted a kicker or punter or another ST s(S)peed guy.

We should have drafted 2 more WRs and a TE, and maybe another OL, none of whom would have made the team, mind you, but would have shown our dedication to fixing the offense!

 

[Chevy]

With the new kickoff rule, should BB bring in Dan Connelly to work with the big guys on the return team?