BGC 2024 QB/PTP Thread

[upstater1]

Or call up LAC and offer #3 + 34 + 2025 1st + Mac Jones for Herbert. They're 50 million over the cap. Have to pay him and can't out their own way to save their life. Long shot but it's worth exploring.

That's tempting enough for LAC to actually consider it, but it would be a steal for the Patriots.

 

[patsfan13]

Comps are tough, I'm not the best at them but it's not funny the Josh Allen vibes you get from Maye. Which sucks bc that's a huge weight to put on someone but you can't run from it. Minus the god tier arm they're so similar.

Accuracy issues

Big boys that can throw on the run. Pick up tough 1st Downs or scramble for 20 yards.

Footwork. Maye's inconsistent base vs Allen's stoppage of his movements at times getting stuck in the mud.

At the end of the day you sum up both with one word though and one word only. Aggression. Both are extremely aggressive. Both looking for big shots in the passing game or taking off to run.

That's not something you can really coach. You're never going to ask Maye "do you want to go for it" on 4th down. You already know the answer. It's tough but you can fix accuracy to an extent and mechanics are tough a but very possible. Having a 247 nonstop aggressive attitude and approach, isn't.

I see Allen all over his game all over Maye. Stafford as well in his pocket presence and movements, arm angles and overall play in the pocket.

I'd love to see Maye hit big. I think Atl would be a great spot bc of the line, London, Pitts, Robinson. They're ready to go on offense so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them try to trade up for Maye.

Well I am not a person who can evaluate college players and project them into the pros. IIRC there were a lot critiques of Allen being raw, poor mechanics ect.. Brady had a weak arm, we saw how that worked out, Mahomes, played in a non NFL offense, that is how he dropped to #12.

I am fascinated as we could see 5QB's go in the first 15 picks.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's tempting enough for LAC to actually consider it, but it would be a steal for the Patriots.

The Chargers can't trade Hebert prior to June 1st. They'd take an EXTRA 89M cap hit in doing so.. If they traded him AFTER June 1st, then they'd save 6M, but have a slightly less $72M cap hit for 2025 due to the SB acceleration.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Well I am not a person who can evaluate college players and project them into the pros. IIRC there were a lot critiques of Allen being raw, poor mechanics ect.. Brady had a weak arm, we saw how that worked out, Mahomes, played in a non NFL offense, that is how he dropped to #12.

I am fascinated as we could see 5QB's go in the first 15 picks.

That's kind of my point with Maye and Allen their strengths and weaknesses are extremely similar. Again minus the god tier arm those two are very alike.

Down to the competition they faced. Their inaccuracies. Hero ball. Poor footwork. 6'4/230 4.6. Arm talent others don't have. Prototype size.

I think most had trouble evaluating 15 bc of the things he did off platform, on the move. You really had to watch him to see he was making good decisions just doing things others can't. Williams is similar although I think his decision making is slightly worse than 15. We've seen the Air Raid in the league prior but picturing Mahomes and if he could do what he was in college, in the NFL, was tough.

 

[dliverey44]

I have gone back and watched alot of Zach Wilson at BYU to figure out what I missed with him. I felt that he was going to be a top 5 pick and be a top 10 QB in the NFL. If someone could give me their opinion of why he looks so bad on the Jets, I would appreciate it. Most of the time I can go back and say ahhhh thats why, but after watching him and knowing he will turn out bad on the Jets, he still looks like a top 5 QB to me. Is it all dependent on coaching and environment?

Thanks

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I am fascinated as we could see 5QB's go in the first 15 picks.

We saw 5 QBs go in the first 15 picks in 2021 and 4 of the QBs suck, and 1 QB slightly sucks. Why are you fascinated? You are a fan of train wrecks?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I have gone back and watched alot of Zach Wilson at BYU to figure out what I missed with him. I felt that he was going to be a top 5 pick and be a top 10 QB in the NFL. If someone could give me their opinion of why he looks so bad on the Jets, I would appreciate it. Most of the time I can go back and say ahhhh thats why, but after watching him and knowing he will turn out bad on the Jets, he still looks like a top 5 QB to me. Is it all dependent on coaching and environment?

Thanks

Him and Lance had real issues working the mof and second level that never got solved or got worse. Wilson has no idea how to work or manipulate a pocket. He's constantly bailing. Williams reminds me a lot of him both good and bad. Both Maye and Williams will leave clean or manageable pockets. I probably exaggerated on Williams a little but it's something all three have in common. I feel like Williams and Wilson really rely on their gifts too much. Maye is very aggressive as well but more versed in structure imo. Both of the other two really think they can "out talent" the opposition. Wilson was the worst out of the bunch. It doesn't help that the jete ol has been dogs hit but ol usually doesn't matter for guys like Wilson. It's them who invite most of the pressure.

Another thing with Wilson. He was so late and slow to go through reads. Adjust his protection.

Wilson would have benefited from sitting a year or two. He looked out of it very early.

 

[patsfan13]

We saw 5 QBs go in the first 15 picks in 2021 and 4 of the QBs suck, and 1 QB slightly sucks. Why are you fascinated? You are a fan of train wrecks?

Because QB is the most important position in team sports and my team need one.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

I would not be shocked to see Chicago pick Maye at 1 and surprise everyone.
I think Maye is the dream pick for the Pats but they won't get that shot.
Those 2 wins against Pittsburgh and Denver may have cost the Pats a franchise qb.
Maye is not getting past 2.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

BGC: Your opinion on Daniels not throwing to middle of the field much
When he did he was not as accurate as the long ball
Great long ball throws but shorter and intermediate throws sporadic (especially to middle of field)

You cannot survive in the NFL without attacking the middle of field

Edit: This is not my take on him. I in no way can break down film of players and have a decent take on what I am looking at
This is from respected draft guru’s like Jeremiah, Brugler and Eric Eagan

 

[skinnydog]

BGC: Your opinion on Daniels not throwing to middle of the field much
When he did he was not as accurate as the long ball
Great long ball throws but shorter and intermediate throws sporadic (especially to middle of field)

You cannot survive in the NFL without attacking the middle of field

Edit: This is not my take on him. I in no way can break down film of players and have a decent take on what I am looking at
This is from respected draft guru’s like Jeremiah, Brugler and Eric Eagan

All incoming QBs have things to work on. Actually, most pass defenses try to take away the middle of the field and force throws to the boundary.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

All incoming QBs have things to work on. Actually, most pass defenses try to take away the middle of the field and force throws to the boundary.

It does not take away from the point that you must be able to throw to the middle of the field
I am concerned with his velocity on throws which would tend to feel safer going to the boundaries
Middle of the field a lot of times has tight windows where strong arms with velocity matters.
You must be able to attack the middle of the field in the NFL or you are very limited and your Offense will stall

 

[skinnydog]

It does not take away from the point that you must be able to throw to the middle of the field
I am concerned with his velocity on throws which would tend to feel safer going to the boundaries
Middle of the field a lot of times has tight windows where strong arms with velocity matters.
You must be able to attack the middle of the field in the NFL or you are very limited and your Offense will stall

It does not take away from the point that you must be able to throw to the middle of the field
I am concerned with his velocity on throws which would tend to feel safer going to the boundaries
Middle of the field a lot of times has tight windows where strong arms with velocity matters.
You must be able to attack the middle of the field in the NFL or you are very limited and your Offense will stall

I’m not sure I buy the lack of velocity. I always thought the biggest issue for throws in the middle of the field is accuracy and knowing how to throw around or over linebackers. Velocity is more of a concern for throws to the sideline. I don’t mean deep sideline passes but those quick 5 yard outs or the slower developing outs in the 10-20 yard range. Those throws get picked in the NFL if they are thrown as touch passes versus hard fast throws

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I’m not sure I buy the lack of velocity. I always thought the biggest issue for throws in the middle of the field is accuracy and knowing how to throw around or over linebackers. Velocity is more of a concern for throws to the sideline. I don’t mean deep sideline passes but those quick 5 yard outs or the slower developing outs in the 10-20 yard range. Those throws get picked in the NFL if they are thrown as touch passes versus hard fast throws

At times you need to throw passes with touch. Another non strength with Daniels
But over the middle of the field you have a lot of tight window throws where velocity is needed,

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

BGC: Your opinion on Daniels not throwing to middle of the field much
When he did he was not as accurate as the long ball
Great long ball throws but shorter and intermediate throws sporadic (especially to middle of field)

You cannot survive in the NFL without attacking the middle of field

Edit: This is not my take on him. I in no way can break down film of players and have a decent take on what I am looking at
This is from respected draft guru’s like Jeremiah, Brugler and Eric Eagan

I didn't see this until now.

I would add that a lot of the mof stuff requires master-like timing to be considered "good" at it which almost none of these guys have. Daniels was a bit hesitant or late or some of those passes/concepts as well as some outside the #'s passes.

Williams and Maye will pass up stuff at times to be aggressive somewhere else. Where he'll miss it or ignore it. I could be wrong. It could something he improves on greatly.

He wasn't terrible at all. It just wasn't a natural thing for him.

I'm trying to gather my thoughts now for further discussion lol

 

[DaBruinz]

@BaconGrundleCandy - Hope all is well, hoss. What's your take on Davius Richard out of North Carolina Central? Besides the obvious in regards to Competition?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BaconGrundleCandy - Hope all is well, hoss. What's your take on Davius Richard out of North Carolina Central? Besides the obvious in regards to Competition?

I have to go to sleep but will check back on this tomorrow. I feel terrible for the kid. He's worked very hard on his mechanics and throwing motion the past few years. On his ability to throw with different speeds. He was a guy you might take a flyer on if Milton went early. 4.5 guy with some versatility. I feel awful bc of the injury

 

[Patriot Missile]

I hate it when players declare they won’t be doing certain drills at the combine. Especially healthy ones.

Williams and Daniels will not do passing drills which is a bummer. I know they have private workouts and prodays but to me it shows trying to not blow their draft status. Someone will come to their defense and say well…..
I say Cowardly although I’m sure they’ll throw well later.

Top draft prospects Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels won't throw at NFL Scouting Combine

USC quarterback Caleb Williams and LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels will attend the NFL Scouting Combine this week for interviews and meetings, but neither plans to participate in throwing drills, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported Sunday.

www.nfl.com

 

[upstater1]

It's incredibly hard to evaluate QBs for the pro level because absolutely everything depends on how fast they process things mentally. Here we are talking about velocity throwing over the middle into tight windows, and the #1 thing that determines that velocity is the quickness of the decision to go there. If you can do it in enough time, then you can set yourself, throw from a platform, have your feet in the right place, and you can drive it. The guy on the other team in the same situation misses the read for a split second, does not have time to set an adjust, and even though he has a cannon for an arm compared to yours, he can't match your velocity because he isn't able to drive the throw.

When I see Penix and Bo Nix in their highlights they scare the crap out of me because you hardly ever see them set.

As for the others, the one who can read the play best is the one who can drive the ball into tight pockets over the middle.

This same reasoning doesn't apply all over the field. Throwing an out requires a strong arm. Throwing it 50 yards downfield requires a strong arm if you don't want defenders catching up with it.

 

[Jim Beankie]

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