BGC 2023 WR/PTP Thread

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Pats had Belichick there. Giants had Daboll. The yahoo article I read specifically said Scouts. If if had been the HCs that the agent got into it with, that's what woulda been reported.

Max Duggan shines in front of New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick at TCU pro day

Duggan put on a show for one of the greatest football coaches ever at his pro day

sports.yahoo.com

No I was saying I was trying to find out exactly who/which scouts he got into it with.

I like the size and the long strides for Johnston, but he doesn’t run great routes and often catches with his body. He’s the type of player I would want a team to draft if they had a documented history of developing receivers, I think he’s too much of a project for the Pats.

Give me JSN, Zay or Addison over him.

This has been my biggest concern. The fact that we already have Thornton who needs a lot of attention to detail. Needs to make that big jump is on my mind but I also don't want to pass up on a great prospect being scared.

I agree though it's a concern.

One thing about the body catching though. We've seen some great players body catch their way through a career. Calvin Johnson, TO, Dotson just was drafted very high and he's doing well. Welker made a career out of it. Jules did it on occasion.

You take the good with the bad. Like I've been saying for a while. No WR is worth 14 but him and JSN are the closest you'll get this year.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

No I was saying I was trying to find out exactly who/which scouts he got into it with.


This has been my biggest concern. The fact that we already have Thornton who needs a lot of attention to detail. Needs to make that big jump is on my mind but I also don't want to pass up on a great prospect being scared.

I agree though it's a concern.

One thing about the body catching though. We've seen some great players body catch their way through a career. Calvin Johnson, TO, Dotson just was drafted very high and he's doing well. Welker made a career out of it. Jules did it on occasion.

You take the good with the bad. Like I've been saying for a while. No WR is worth 14 but him and JSN are the closest you'll get this year.

It really comes down to risk aversion. You are right Johnston probably has the biggest upside/highest floor of any receiver in the draft. I'm more risk averse so I'd like the guy we draft to run really good routes (JSN, Addison, Flowers all do that imo). Although Flowers and Addison offer a different kind of risk because they are small so they could end up being more of an injury risk than QJ.

With the Pats history of developing receivers I'm extremely hesitant to draft a player that is more raw with a higher upside, at the same time if they pass on Johnston and he excels somewhere else I'm going to regret the opinion I currently hold.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

It really comes down to risk aversion. You are right Johnston probably has the biggest upside/highest floor of any receiver in the draft. I'm more risk averse so I'd like the guy we draft to run really good ws (JSN, Addison, Flowers all do that imo). Although Flowers and Addison offer a different kind of risk because they are small so they could end up being more of an injury risk than QJ.

With the Pats history of developing receivers I'm extremely hesitant to draft a player that is more raw with a higher upside, at the same time if they pass on Johnston and he excels somewhere else I'm going to regret the opinion I currently hold.

No I agree and have been saying as much for a few months now. Taking on two projects at WR is a tall task for the NEP. I wouldn't hate the confidence or shot at a big ceiling WR corp. Peak Thornton at Z, Johnston at X and JuJu at slot could be fun as hell but getting to those results is a problem we haven't solved well.

I'd be thrilled with JSN hopefully a little after 14 but that kid can play. This team just lacks a true X and has for so long. We could get away with it with Gronk and Jules but it's a sore spot now.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Would love the expert opinions of the draft people on this board. How would you order the following pass catchers

Sam LaPorta

Tucker Kraft

Jonathan Mingo

A.T. Perry

Marvin Mims

Parker Washington

Jayden Reed

Michael Wilson

Rashee Rice

Zack Kuntz

Kayshon Boutte

Trey Palmer

Tyler Scott

Cedric Tillman

I'm doing a full 7 round mock draft with each team having two drafters. We got Devon Witherspoon and Dawand Jones in the first two rounds. Looking to get some offensive weapons in round 3 and 4. Your opinions on who I should target from this list would be extremely helpful!

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

What's even worse - much, Much Worse - is that they're hosting Addison for an actual ****ing visit. What a complete ****ing Waste of energy.

Please expand on this. I don't know much about Addison. Is flop material? QJ seems like he has massive flop potential...or All Pro. hard to say

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Would love the expert opinions of the draft people on this board. How would you order the following pass catchers

Sam LaPorta

Tucker Kraft

Jonathan Mingo

A.T. Perry

Marvin Mims

Parker Washington

Jayden Reed

Michael Wilson

Rashee Rice

Zack Kuntz

Kayshon Boutte

Trey Palmer

Tyler Scott

Cedric Tillman

I'm doing a full 7 round mock draft with each team having two drafters. We got Devon Witherspoon and Dawand Jones in the first two rounds. Looking to get some offensive weapons in round 3 and 4. Your opinions on who I should target from this list would be extremely helpful!

Tillman
Rice/Mims/LaPorta
Perry
Palmer
Reed
KB
Kraft
Scott
Wilson
Mingo
Washington
Kuntz

 

[VJCPatriot]

Quentin Johnston,

Jaxon Smith-Njigba,

Jordan Addison,

Zay Flowers,

out of these 4, who would you rather the Patriots select with a 1st round pick? I feel like JSN is probably the safest pick of the top 4 candidates. Zay Flowers has some intriguing dynamism to his game... but is he too small to take off at the pro level? Which of these 4 can actually become a WR1 in the BOB offensive system?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If we draft Addison at 14 and fix the offensive line, mac jones will look like Tom Brady next season!!!!

 

[State]

I'd love to see this kid (Jalin Hyatt) on the Pats, but he's gonna get drafted pretty high. Seems like he's got his priorities right, too.

What about his teammate Cedric Tillman? In 2021 he was the bigger star—over a 1,000 yards receiving. But a significant ankle injury last season kept him out of games and has lowered his draft status.

MSN

If the Chiefs got this guy at a good value position, like they did outstandingly with another Vol in OL Trey Smith that would suck.

BCG rightfully put CT in the 1A grouping.

 

[State]

No I agree and have been saying as much for a few months now. Taking on two projects at WR is a tall task for the NEP. I wouldn't hate the confidence or shot at a big ceiling WR corp. Peak Thornton at Z, Johnston at X and JuJu at slot could be fun as hell but getting to those results is a problem we haven't solved well.

I'd be thrilled with JSN hopefully a little after 14 but that kid can play. This team just lacks a true X and has for so long. We could get away with it with Gronk and Jules but it's a sore spot now.

How about Cedric Tillman at X? Will he be available for us in the third?

This is the kind of player drafted by the Chiefs, gets big production, and people ask, “Where did he come from?”

Love the size and production…from 2021…playing in the best conference.

 

[PatsFan2]

If we draft Addison at 14 and fix the offensive line, mac jones will look like Tom Brady next season!!!!

Love Jordan Addison for us too seems like the kind of WR that would strive in our difficult system.

 

[PatsFan2]

What about his teammate Cedric Tillman? In 2021 he was the bigger star—over a 1,000 yards receiving. But a significant ankle injury last season kept him out of games and has lowered his draft status.

MSN

If the Chiefs got this guy at a good value position, like they did outstandingly with another Vol in OL Trey Smith that would suck.

BCG rightfully put CT in the 1A grouping.

I know Hyatt who I love gets all the attention with his Elite game speed. That said I think Cedric Tillman may be much better than regarded. Wouldn't mind him in a possible double dip same goes for Trey Palmer.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

How about Cedric Tillman at X? Will he be available for us in the third?

This is the kind of player drafted by the Chiefs, gets big production, and people ask, “Where did he come from?”

Love the size and production…from 2021…playing in the best conference.

I have a low 2nd on Tillman and that's where I'd start him out. Either him or Rice would be my choice after RD1 for an X.

 

[State]

Part of me wants to draft Cedric Tillman to keep him away from the Chiefs. Isn’t that stupid?

 

[State]

I love the fact that Cedric Tillman would feel he has something to prove after his tarnished season dealing with the ankle injury. But there again he showed toughness and grit to come back and play.

I would love to get this player. Low second to early third sounds perfect.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Unless there's a Huge run on WRs, there's no way I'm considering using Any of our 4th-rounders on Charlie Jones. We need to do better than that coming out of this draft.

Curious why you don't like him. He runs some savvy routes and has consistently shown up in the games I've watched. Fourth seems like a reasonable value for a highly productive player.

 

[Username]

Part of me wants to draft Cedric Tillman to keep him away from the Chiefs. Isn’t that stupid?

There's a chance that KC will their choice of running backs, including Bijan, and most of the TE's. They could go D, but I think they'll continue to juggernaut it on offense.

I mean, if Bijan falls to them that would be an absolute nightmare.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

From a track history standpoint, not a lot to get excited about except Tre Tucker (and a few others below), who ran a 10.41 100m (no wind gauge) and supposedly a 4.29 40 laser. This little dude is my guy for the draft. Sauce got a lot reps against him in practice on purpose to prepare for speed guys.

Bruce Feldman: "Tucker clocked a 4.29 40, broad-jumped 10-10 and vertical-jumped 36 1/2 inches. He’s also very powerful for his size, squatting 600 pounds and doing 16 reps of 225 on the bench." Edit: also wrestled in HS which is part of why he went to UCin (Fickell wrestled as well).



Check out his nice catch against 1st Rnd (14th) draft pick Bal/Notre Dame's Kyle Hamilton (6'4" 220lbs - a dude who forced an Agholor fumble this year) at 4:21. Also had a solid block against him in this game (although there may have been a hold...)



-------

Not realistic since prob 1st rounders:

Obviously Boutte (10.97/21.25) but those surgeries...

Quentin Johnston - 6'10" High Jump my goodness

Others of note:

Tyler Harrell 10.56 -0.3, 10.37 +2.4, 20.83 - dude has been nonexistent but he's fast - Saban will let BB know what's what

Tyler Scott 10.7 in 11th grade - Tre Tucker's more productive teammate who just got an ankle injury

Jacob Cowing 10.71 - skinny

Kearis Jackson 10.74, 51'4" 12lb shot (state champ!!) - too many injuries

Luke Grimm 10.88

Winston Wright 10.97?

Edit: Jalin Hyatt 10.46

Edit: Jordan Addison 10.85 in 11th grade

Edit: Andrei Iosivas 10.8 (6.71 60m and 6'10" Indoor Jr yr in college)

Edit: Trey Palmer 10.42

Edit: Kaz Allen 10.44

Edit: Derius Davis 10.94 - although it looks like there's a 10.68 guessing hand time

Bump

Train like an athlete. Not a bodybuilder. It'll be amazing what we see people do in 10-20 years.

 

[State]

Train like an athlete. Not a bodybuilder. It'll be amazing what we see people do in 10-20 years.

Special Forces guys have known that. Specifically, train like a gymnast. It’s amazing seeing these bulging muscle guys drop out in droves from rigorous selection events.

 

[State]

Jonathan Mingo has moved out of tier 4. More like tier 1 as of April ‘23.