DRAFT BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

[Love The Drake]

He initially wanted to play at Minnesota, and had been ready to commit there after attending a recruiting event in February 2017. However, he stated in a 2020 interview with NFL.com that P. J. Fleck, then in his first year as Gophers head coach, wanted him to play safety instead of quarterback

Lance was not considered a quarterback prospect by Power Five programs; most that had an interest in him wanted him as either a wide receiver or defensive back. He received at most two Power Five offers; one source said that his only such offer was from Rutgers,while another said that his only such offer was to play linebacker at Iowa.

Him sticking with playing QB even if it meant he had to do it at NDST kind of shows his competitiveness. Wanted to prove people wrong... Reminds sort of a guy that the Pats picked once at #199

Also reminds me of Lamar Jackson in that regard

 

[upstater1]

Everything is better with Bacon. well maybe not ice cream.

There is bacon ice cream.

 

[reflexblue]

There is bacon ice cream.

I wonder what bacon and avocado ice cream mixed together would work

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There is bacon ice cream.

I’ve had it before, it was ok.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Question for you.
Im a big buckeye fan. Love Fields as a buckeye but was always concerned he was a great college qb that didn’t translate to the nfl and looks better than he is because of talent/scheme making it easy. Like Troy Smith, Cardale Jones, Barrett and Haskins. He was clearly better than the first 3 but Haskins was ridiculous and clearly that didn’t translate.
What do you think about Fields adjusting from having a lot of wide open receivers to throw to, to needing to fit the ball into tight windows?

@Ring 6 brought up a few concerns about Fields. Figured I'd address this here so I don't hijack the other thread and it's relevant to the Pats.

I think it's important to go through this stuff to break down narratives, if they exist. Or misconceptions about young prospects. Apologize for the late response. Old excuse but work has been tough. I'll start to write and get caught up in something. Next thing I know its the next day.

Anyway back to Fields. As I understand it you have two concerns. I'll try touch on one in separate post.

1)OSU scheme - I've mentioned this a few times but Haskins & Fields might have been running two different systems. Haskins and others were letting mesh do the heavy lifting in the passing game. A lot of the time their athletes were simply winning 1 on 1 battles by out racing an opponent across the field. If need be the reads were pretty simple, beat man, sit vs zone.
Or they would run something like this called a "triangle" read I believe. Mesh with a route at the top of the crossers to create a triangle. Basically in front of the QB, coverage and player call doing a lot of the work.

This wasn't the whole case with Haskins and not to say Fields doesn't get open WR's but just an example of how things were different between the two.

Fields is tasked with going through more progressions and working more concepts, sometimes one on either side of the field. Working more vertical stuff, reading coverage/being on the same page with his targets & is able to do a lot more outside the pocket.



I wouldn't say his scheme is hurting him but it's not easy. Young kid, Covid year, one of his years. And he hasn't ever been bad. Some hiccups but he's never been bad. He's run that offense pretty well imo. Again its just tough. He's working from start to finish. Scanning an entire defense most of the time. Multi-level and layering passes in. Side to side, MOF, high/low. A lot of college QB's are making single reads, basically working off their two or three best targets. Half field stuff. Impressive but Fields improved year to year in terms of that stuff. He's doing a lot more than most QB's out there.

Looks kind of familiar

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

2)As far as tight window passes. Let me show you instead of telling you. He a lot of arm talent and trust it. It's not all world but has everything that constitutes arm talent imo. Accuracy, touch, placement, velocity and ability to change up arm angle.

Here are some NFL passes that require a tight or pretty tight window, ++ placement, touch and accuracy.











Some of my notes on Justin Fields ...

*Toughness* stands out every game! Doesn't flinch at all if a pass is there will stand in and take a shot - he'll shake off multiple defenders, DT types and keep a play going. Taken shots in the pocket, on the move and isn't deterred.

Like his footwork, base and mechanics for the most part. Feet are light, slides, steps up. Shows decent command for the pocket. Confident stepping up standing tall. Isn't afraid of 300+ DT chasing him. Feel could improve but I like his command.

Arm talent is plus. Multiple times a game he has to layer passes over or between defenders. Trust his arm!

Scans across the entire field like a clock. A little hesitant at times but seems confident, smart but could be a little quicker at times. Ask someone smarter about him working hi/low, zone match...

Big time potential on the move. Accurate, confident and legs are ++. Could ve quicker in the pocket but legs can do a lot for him. Comfortable on bootlegs, scrambling and picking up easy or tough yards.

Improve vs blitz, edge pressure before he hits the next level. Make things quicker, help him out getting the ball out quicker - speed everything up both physical and mental. Get him going, on his toes. He need to grow but system isn't his best friend. Quicker! Biggest criticism - get quicker.

Get comfortable in an offense. Progressed year 1 to year 2. Stay in same!?? Ask someone smarter. Good for change or keep evolving?? Growth was there but should it be this tough or does it have to be?

Arm is huge. ++ intermediate + short good deep. All could improve. He could be a monster in the short/intermediate parts bc of velocity and ability to layer.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

In total I've seen about 16-18 of his games but you can get a great idea from 4-5 games, here's a good picture. If anyone is interested.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I have a question about Trey Lance. How did a kid that talented end up playing at a run-first Division II college? If the answer is not “he had to stay home to take care of family”, it brings into question whether he has the competitiveness and dedication needed to excel in the NFL.

Most great QBs are alphas who want to run with the big dogs. That Vance chose to run with the little dogs is very concerning. What’s between the ears and how it works is perhaps the most important criteria for a NFL QB. You would think we’d all be conscious of that after 20 years of watching a QB who left California for Michigan to constantly battle one highly touted prospect after another for playing time.

He's noted as a big time worker on & off the field. Lots of preparation, studying himself, his opponents and their tendencies. He's been working with a QB coach & OL coach to grow in both aspects. Mechanics, reading coverage, protection calls etc .. Everything in that regard seems like +++ and he's only 20.


He's definitely an alpha, leader. People notice and respond to that type of work ethic. Not to mention he lays his body of the line every game. He's shown a lot of poise, leadership, command in the pocket. Again ++ there as well. As @JMC00 pointed out he wanted to play for Minnesota but they couldn't see his potential.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Question for you.
Im a big buckeye fan. Love Fields as a buckeye but was always concerned he was a great college qb that didn’t translate to the nfl and looks better than he is because of talent/scheme making it easy. Like Troy Smith, Cardale Jones, Barrett and Haskins. He was clearly better than the first 3 but Haskins was ridiculous and clearly that didn’t translate.
What do you think about Fields adjusting from having a lot of wide open receivers to throw to, to needing to fit the ball into tight windows?

@Ring 6 brought up a few concerns about Fields. Figured I'd address this here so I don't hijack the other thread and it's relevant to the Pats.

I think it's important to go through this stuff to break down narratives, if they exist. Or misconceptions about young prospects. Apologize for the late response. Old excuse but work has been tough. I'll start to write and get caught up in something. Next thing I know its the next day.

Anyway back to Fields. As I understand it you have two concerns. I'll try touch on one in separate post.

1)OSU scheme - I've mentioned this a few times but Haskins & Fields might have been running two different systems. Haskins and others were letting mesh do the heavy lifting in the passing game. A lot of the time their athletes were simply winning 1 on 1 battles by out racing an opponent across the field. If need be the reads were pretty simple, beat man, sit vs zone.
Or they would run something like this called a "triangle" read I believe. Mesh with a route at the top of the crossers to create a triangle. Basically in front of the QB, coverage and player call doing a lot of the work.

This wasn't the whole case with Haskins and not to say Fields doesn't get open WR's but just an example of how things were different between the two.

Fields is tasked with going through more progressions and working more concepts, sometimes one on either side of the field. Working more vertical stuff, reading coverage/being on the same page with his targets & is able to do a lot more outside the pocket.



I wouldn't say his scheme is hurting him but it's not easy. Young kid, Covid year, one of his years. And he hasn't ever been bad. Some hiccups but he's never been bad. He's run that offense pretty well imo. Again its just tough. He's working from start to finish. Scanning an entire defense most of the time. Multi-level and layering passes in. Side to side, MOF, high/low. A lot of college QB's are making single reads, basically working off their two or three best targets. Half field stuff. Impressive but Fields improved year to year in terms of that stuff. He's doing a lot more than most QB's out there.

Looks kind of familiar

Excellent analysis, thank you.

I find external naysayers of Fields about whether he's making first read throws only or not, to be making dubious claims . They don't have the playbook.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

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3. Justin Fields, Ohio State (6-3, 218 pounds)​

Kennesaw, Ga. (Harrison); Age: 22.15

A two-year starter at Ohio State, Fields was one of college football’s best players the last two seasons in head coach Ryan Day’s multiple-spread offense. With Jake Fromm blocking him at Georgia, he transferred to Columbus in 2019 and needed only 21 games to reach No. 2 in Ohio State history in career passing touchdowns (67), twice earning Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year honors.

Fields has had the spotlight on him for a long time and he hasn’t wilted, displaying the confidence and competitive toughness that teammates rally behind. He shows excellent tempo when the play is on schedule, but he must speed up his target-to-target progression reads and improve his urgency when the initial target is taken away. Overall, Fields’ decision-making is more methodical than spontaneous, but he has high-ceiling traits with his athleticism, accuracy and intangibles. He projects as a future NFL starter if he can quicken his reads and process.

​

4. Trey Lance, North Dakota State (6-3, 225 pounds)​

Marshall, Minn. (Marshall); Age: 20.97

A one-year starter at North Dakota State, Lance was a dual-threat quarterback in the Bison’s read-based scheme, following in the footsteps of Easton Stick and Carson Wentz, who were both NFL draft picks. A late bloomer at the high school level, Lance had one of the most impressive statistical seasons in college football history in 2019 (42 total touchdowns, zero interceptions), but that is the only full season on his 17-start (all vs. FCS competition) college resume.

A unique talent, Lance has the athleticism, arm talent and mental makeup to be a playmaker. While he takes care of the football, there were too many one-read-and-run plays on film and NDSU relied on the run game as the bread-and-butter of its offense. (In his 17 career starts, Lance averaged 18.6 pass attempts per game while the team averaged 45 rush attempts.) Overall, Lance is an unprecedented evaluation and will require time as he adjusts to the speed and complexities of the NFL, but his physical traits, poise and decision-making are a rare package for his age and meager experience. He projects as a high-ceiling developmental passer.

5. Mac Jones, Alabama (6-3, 217 pounds)​

Jacksonville, Fla. (The Bolles School); Age: 22.65

A one-year starter at Alabama, Jones was a prolific passer in former offensive coordinator Steve Sarkisian’s spread scheme. After backing up Tua Tagovailoa in 2019, Jones won the starting job in 2020 and led Alabama to the national championship. He set a new NCAA single-season record for completion percentage (77.4 percent) and became the first player in school history to reach 4,500 passing yards in a season.

Jones is an especially challenging evaluation because he played in a near-perfect situation in Tuscaloosa with an elite offensive line, running game, pass catchers and play calling. That makes it tough to evaluate him independent of his surroundings. However, he still had to make the reads and the throws, and he displayed advanced-level poise and anticipation. Overall, Jones doesn’t have ideal mobility or arm talent and doesn’t offer any explosive elements to his game, but he is smart, efficient and doesn’t make mistakes, projecting as a high-floor, low-ceiling NFL starter.

​

6. Davis Mills, Stanford (6-4, 225 pounds)​

Duluth, Ga. (Greater Atlanta Christian); Age: 22.52

A two-year starter at Stanford, Mills was a starter in offensive coordinator Tavita Pritchard’s pro-style scheme, splitting his snaps from under center and from the shotgun. The No. 1 quarterback in the 2017 recruiting class (ahead of Tua Tagovailoa), his college career was interrupted by a left knee injury from high school and then a COVID-shortened 2020 season. He finished with basically one full year of starting experience.

A loose, well-built passer, Mills shows the ability to scan, operate from various platforms and throw with touch/anticipation. He is one of the best middle-of-the-field passers in the draft, but he needs time to grow and eliminate the “what are you doing?” plays from his tape. Overall, Mills is still learning the throws he should and shouldn’t make, but he has size and mobility and delivers a very catchable ball with the field-reading skills to develop into an NFL backup (and possibly more), although the health of his left knee is a strong concern.

 

[upstater1]

He's noted as a big time worker on & off the field. Lots of preparation, studying himself, his opponents and their tendencies. He's been working with a QB coach & OL coach to grow in both aspects. Mechanics, reading coverage, protection calls etc .. Everything in that regard seems like +++ and he's only 20.

I tend to think this is the single biggest factor for an NFL QB.

You see Peyton M. and Brady studying, studying, studying on the sideline. All the time.

It is an enormous advantage to read the defense pre-snap and to anticipate what they are going to do within the first half second after the ball is snapped.

It would seem that all QBs do this but it's just not true. Some QBs are better at pre-snap reads than others because of the constant work that they put in.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

If I'm Balt, KC or Sea I'm all over him. He would kill it in any but Balt needs him the most.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I tend to think this is the single biggest factor for an NFL QB.

You see Peyton M. and Brady studying, studying, studying on the sideline. All the time.

It is an enormous advantage to read the defense pre-snap and to anticipate what they are going to do within the first half second after the ball is snapped.

It would seem that all QBs do this but it's just not true. Some QBs are better at pre-snap reads than others because of the constant work that they put in.

Agreed it's usually why I wait to grade QB's. All this comes out late but this year I got a lot of good stuff early in.

Yea it's super important. You want to know if someone is a worker. If they'll out in the time. Anything like that, becoming a star QB takes a lot of time. A lot of failing and getting back in the horse, not easy at all. It's the toughest thing about grading QB's. Knowing or having a feeling if they have it all mentally, upstairs.

I guess Brady really took to some virtual reality training/practices down in Tampa Bay, always changing.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

best college slant defender i have seen is future nfl slot corner Shaun Wade. If teams are looking for a slot corner, Wade is a beast. He is no outside corner but also very good tackler so might has some S versality

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

best college slant defender i have seen is future nfl slot corner Shaun Wade. If teams are looking for a slot corner, Wade is a beast. He is no outside corner but also very good tackler so might has some S versality

Wade is pretty good. Aaron Robinson and Vincent are really good as well as Bush from Cinci.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Wade is pretty good. Aaron Robinson and Vincent are really good as well as Bush from Cinci.

Yeah I remember Wade covering D.Smith on slants pretty good and tackling Harris like a LB. But outside it's not looking good for him. I hope we can find a outside CB in this draft. Could need some youth at this position as well as FS