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BGC 2020 QB/PTP Thread

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BaconGrundleCandy, May 30, 2019.

  1. p8ryts

    p8ryts 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think the o line was on its way to being fixed at the end of the year. Protection wasn't the problem in the last few games. Run blocking was improving. Both handicapped by play calling. I think injuries played a big part with Wynn coming in late, Cannon fought foot problems all year, Shaq had knee problems and it took Karras until the end of the year to be competent. I wish they could sign Thuney but probably unlikely as with Flowers. But with Froholdt and Cajuste as possible contributors and possible draft insertions I don't think its a problem unlike every season. What is a Korey Cunningham? Retained on the roster, never active, couldn't beat out Newhouse. If he was any good I would think he would have been active late in the year instead of Newhouse.

    WR is an enigma. I still think the playbook has gotten to sophisticated and Tommy a little compulsive. I know people were down on Jakobi but he caught the ball better than anyone not named Julian (also suspect but injured) and I think he can be a productive #2. I also still think Harry should be turned into a Hernandez type TE. He blocks well and doesn't really have WR moves in my mind. Find a speedy elusive WR that can beat man (better make that 2 becaue of injuries). I don't know what Lacosse is, we seldom threw to him or any TEs.

    RB's are set in my mind.

    QB is questionable. Brady's problems were likely due to nagging injuries but there lies the rub, he's old and subject to nagging injuries (I know, I'm old). Stidham is an unknown. Please don't tell me Mariota or any of those other guys. I could see Bridgewater. Little know fact. When Bridgewater was coming out for the draft, I wanted to trade Brady and draft Bridgewater. Well, I'm not always right. Teddy is experienced and accurate and would be a good fit. But he would be expensive. If I was the Saints I would sign him and let Brees walk. So this position is an unknown.

    Defense is problematic. lots of free agents and getting old. I think McCourty's will be gone, and Chung is getting old, slow and beat up. I see some corners moving back there, Williams or Jones. Not a big Harmon fan but might need him for another year. Van Noy, Collins, Roberts gone. Is Bentley ready to improve? Hoping for a Winovich jump in year 2, Hightower stay healthy. Hope Shelton stays. Is Cowart any good? I see Bill figuring this all out. I am a big John Simon fan. Consistent, makes plays, does his job.

    I see the glass as half full and as a certified BB kool aid drinker, I have confidence he will work it out.

    Sorry I lost control and went far afield.
     
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  2. p8ryts

    p8ryts 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I keep thinking that if Julian had not dropped the ball and we scored and won that Bill would have been hailed as a genius for letting Henry run the ball and keep the score down. Just a thought.
     
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  3. super36

    super36 Rookie

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    We'll see what happens at the combine, but back in Jan 2017 Jake Fromm's hand size was measured at 8.75 inches.

    In a 2014 espn article, Scott Pioli talked about a "bad decision" and Kliff Kingsbury, whose hand size was measured at 8.5 inches at the combine, and how those measurements have value.

    I wonder if Bill agrees with Pioli.
     
  4. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Seems like a smart guy with a good football IQ. Good processing skills. Doesn't make many dumb plays. And he's played against the best in terms of what college has to offer. One of the better QBs going through his reads. Probably top 1-3 when it comes to that.

    Good release, pretty quick, tight albeit low.

    Seen him lead his guys to daylight with some of his passes.

    Doesnt shy away from a challenge. Went to UG knowing it wouldn't be easy & stayed to fight for his spot when Fields came through.

    Arm isnt awful but it's noticeable he's hesitant to throw vertical & that most likely won't improve next level. Far hash to sidelines, tight windows, he doesnt have the arm but arm strength can be improved. I doubt it all of a sudden becomes a cannon but can improve. Again he'll throw some 9's down the line but accuracy on the deep stuff leaves a lot to be desired.

    Feet tend to get stuck in quicksand at times. Josh Allen had & still has the same problem but to his credit he improved even if it was minimal.

    Not going to create for you. He needs a script to go off of big time. The mobility & improvisation isnt there. Right now strictly a pocket passer. The farther he gets out of his safe space the worst the odds are the play is successful.

    Looks like a classic west coast guy with some spread mix in. I think a dome team would love him more.

    Some poor play in bad weather. Bill loves QBs that can make it work in the worst conditions (something totally underrated abt 12) & his hands don't look like they can handle a wet, cold ball on the regular.

    He's a guy that needs a lot to go right but also has some legit things going for him. Not sure he's a rebuild QB but rather that needs a big supporting cast. Not sure Smart was the best coach for him even though they've had some success. Good coaching could definitely pull more out of him.
     
  5. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  6. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  7. ToonPatriot

    ToonPatriot Rookie

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    I think the 2020 draft is especially interesting as it gives us an insight into just how much BB rates Stidham.

    With the intense media speculation surrounding Brady’s future and the general knowledge that every year that goes by is another closer to life after #12 you’d think at some point BB has to look at this position again in the higher rounds after drafting Jimmy G in the 2nd.

    I personally think TB12 stays for 2020 but would like to draft a high tier 2 guy (I personally like Eason) to battle it out with Stidham behind the scenes.
     
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  8. JerseyShore99

    JerseyShore99 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Excited to see what we have in Stidham this offseason
     
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  9. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    does stidham make second year leap,
     
  10. super36

    super36 Rookie

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    Ted Johnson on the radio said that Tom was great at running the 2-minute drill with the backups in practice.

    BaconGrundleCandy, do you have any evaluations for this QB class when it comes to running the 2-minute drill or the no-huddle offense?
     
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  11. sircole

    sircole On the Game Day Roster

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  12. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    JB & Tua would be tier 1 for sure. They ran their offenses to pretty high peaks. And sustained it. In JB case only a year but he ran arguably one the greatest offenses ever. And looked like a pro doing it. A healthy Tua is the other guy who could run/master someones west coast variation if healthy.

    Herbert needs the right system imo. Need a good amount of help. Love & Eason both lack maturity in decision making at times. Love might be best served to sit a year.

    I really like Gordon as well. Up-tempo/air raid system and I think he could handle running a system.
     
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    herbert has some really bad tape out there. Add in the fact that he struggles to come off his primary receiver and you have Winston part 2.

    love and Eason are all projection because they do not have great tape.

    Gordon could be mishew part 2. He can read the field and make fairly accurate throws. Not sure how strong the arm is, but I like his decision making.
     
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  14. scott99

    scott99 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What I like about Eason is, he has a canon arm, throws the deep ball well, is pretty accurate, and is a leader, very fiery. Definitely more accurate than Love. Worth a 3rd round pick if still there.
     
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  15. sircole

    sircole On the Game Day Roster

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    QB JORDAN LOVE, UTAH STATE






    QB JACOB EASON, WASHINGTON

    Buyer beware on these 2020 NFL Draft prospects | College Football and NFL Draft | PFF
     
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  16. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tua Tagovailoa

    Strengths/Concerns ...



    Physique/Durability/Mobility-Pocket Presence

    Built like a running back. Thick build throughout his body. Height has never been a problem but injuries can't be ignored. Especially concerning his game. His mobility, escapability are huge part of this game and he needs every bit of them to hit his peak form at the next level. His hips, feet/ankles, needless to say, are intrical in avoiding danger and making a play when things break down. Makes and avoids plays most can't. Spins, climbs, will fight out of some hopeless situations. Could get better sliding through some traffic. At times he looks his size when the pocket collapses and there's a bit of hesitation to his game. Still + part of his game as long as he's healthy. Feels and recognizes pressure before he sees it. Outstanding selling PA/HO.

    Arm Talent/Strength

    Excellent accuracy, placement & touch to all areas. Uncanny ability to drop the ball over or on his targets shoulder, throwing them into space. Short, intermediate, in breaking routes are a thing of beauty. Slants, crossers, over routes etc are one of my favorite passes to watch being thrown by Tua. The consistency, accuracy & placement is always on point. The ball is always on the lead shoulder/chest area. I noticed it early in his career but stood out last year watching Smith catch crossers, it's just money for Tua. Easily one of the best I've seen throwing those types of routes. Sounds simple but their part of so many concepts. The timing, confidence and anticipation stand out every time.
    Natural anticipation, not only passing but running his entire offense. He knows exactly where & when everyone should be.
    Arm strength passes threshold. Isn't great but can attack all areas. Makes up for a lot in reasons above but its hardly a problem.
    People can talk about Love, Eason etc but when healthy Tua's arm is up there with the best of the bunch when you consider consistent velocity, placement, touch & accuracy. If not the best. There are others with more upside, perhaps, once they sharpen their skills. JB's year is absolutely on that tier but as it stands now none have done it as long as Tua.
    His deep accuracy is special as well. His ability to lead his WRs while they track is some of the best I've seen recently. Again uncanny comes up on so many of his passes. Arm strength might not be great, but he certainly has a + arm.


    Mechanics
    Lower body mechanics are on point for most part. Feet & hips work in concert. Usually always help put him in the best possible spot to deliver from. Compact-precise steps, hops deliver a sturdy base. Great weight transfer, great balance. At times will let his feet get too close/base too narrow. Will lose some power, balance and throw off target. Back foot will come off the ground to get more power/velocity when he needs that extra juice. At times lightening quick release. No hesitation or timidity. Looks to have + grip strength from the way the ball leaves his hands. Footwork and movements have improved each year.

    Reads-Progressions/Decision Making/Toughness
    Capable of shredding through zone, aware of weak spots. Can manipulate a flooded secondary. Eye manipulation is + at times. So many "easy" throws are the result of his eyes.
    Can beat tight coverage and not afraid to test man. Stands tall, no flinch, will give his targets every chance to make a play. + toughness, physically and mentally. Been under the spotlight at a early age and delivered big time. At times will stare down his targets a bit too much. Get locked on too easy. Might force one or two but it looks like a killer instinct rather than poor/lack of understanding what's in front of him. More than capable of breaking down route concepts and running various systems next level imo.
    Whether it's short misdirection, verts, overs/crossers Tua understands what it takes to develop. Knows where his targets should be and where is hot is for the most part. At times has had problems seeing/fooling 2nd level defenders. Definitely more than DB's. Seeing, moving LBs could improve.

    Leadership
    Easily one of the biggest factors when talking Tua. Players look to him for energy, confidence and direction. He's always up beat, no sign of quit or being scared of the moment. He can be your QB, lead the 53 and is almost an assistant coach on the field.

    Outlook ...
    Essentially you're gambling on Tua's health if you're taking him top 20. The concerns, weakness are few and some coachable. He's been carrying himself like a professional before Bama.
    He's smart, disciplined and improved his play throughout his time there.
    He gives you the talent, skill set to win with in-game. The mentality, maturity you can trust to make the decisions on & off the field too.
    Tua is that kid you see at every QB camp trying to get better. Pushing himself against the best. He's not afraid to make a play and win you the game. Huge factor in being a good or great QB.
    So much of his game is built/plays off his mobility so again medicals will be huge. If they point up and look good, he's absolutely worth the gamble.

    Not Tua's best game but he was good enough for the win imo and was let down by his team on more than a few plays. Drops and quite simply some poor play from some of his targets/teammates stood out watching this game.








     
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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  17. sircole

    sircole On the Game Day Roster

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  18. ChrisR2223

    ChrisR2223 Pro Bowl Player

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    Like Gordon as a late round developmental pick.
     
  19. sircole

    sircole On the Game Day Roster

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  20. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FWIW, three of their last four QBs were below average on hand size (Garoppolo, Etling, and Stidham).
     

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