Bench Newton!

[sb1]

No I am comparing the sample size you think is sufficient.

Ok like I asked before - now do this with Ryan Mallett and tell me how that turns out.

 

[Nunchucks]

Ok like I asked before - now do this with Ryan Mallett and tell me how that turns out.

That's the point. And Haskins sucks, will always suck, and will be out of the league in 2 years...or be a crappy reclamation project and out of the league in 3 years...lol. Haskin, how can anybody take you seriously...lol

 

[Nunchucks]

Maybe the Patriots should look into JaMarcus Russell, he was a top pick qb....lmao

 

[Nunchucks]

Maybe Christian Ponder would be a good pick up, he was taken in the first round

 

[sb1]

That's the point. And Haskins sucks, will always suck, and will be out of the league in 2 years...or be a crappy reclamation project and out of the league in 3 years...lol. Haskin, how can anybody take you seriously...lol

If he sucks that doesn't say much for Stidham who is worse.

 

[Nunchucks]

If he sucks that doesn't say much for Stidham who is worse.

How would you know? This is the point. You associate draft position with ability, which is asinine.

 

[Nunchucks]

Haskins was a terrible pick and has never once looked like he could run a NFL offense. Stidhim has had good moments and crappy moments...and a lot fewer chances to prove it

 

[sb1]

Haskins was a terrible pick and has never once looked like he could run a NFL offense. Stidhim has had good moments and crappy moments...and a lot fewer chances to prove it

What good moments? All I remember is some pick 6's, a guy who dropped to QB3 in camp, who looks like a deer in headlights at the slightest bit of pressure and who Bill keeps on the bench even when the starter can't throw a football very well.

Also

Haskins 215-361 2355 yards 11 TD 10 INT 77.5 rating. As a starter. Hey look he did better than Peyton Manning did in his first year - or something. Is that how that logic goes?

Stidham 20-37 226 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT (2 pick 6's), 51 rating. In garbage time when the defenses have stopped trying.

Yeah. Time for the Pats to just declare Cam is the starter the rest of the season and put a stop to this so called QB controversy for a never-will-be.

 

[sb1]

How would you know? This is the point. You associate draft position with ability, which is asinine.

But it doesn't mean there is no correlation.

Stidham is a 4th round QB, and it's not that unusual for 4th rounders to look like he does.

 

[Nunchucks]

What good moments? All I remember is some pick 6's, a guy who dropped to QB3 in camp, who looks like a deer in headlights at the slightest bit of pressure and who Bill keeps on the bench even when the starter can't throw a football very well.

Also

Haskins 215-361 2355 yards 11 TD 10 INT 77.5 rating. As a starter
Stidham 20-37 226 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT (2 pick 6's), 51 rating. In garbage time when the defenses have stopped trying.

Yeah. Time for the Pats to just declare Cam is the starter the rest of the season and put a stop to this so called QB controversy for a never-will-be.

Well, we know Haskins sucks because of all those snaps.....Stidhim, not so much. Once again. You ignore the obvious to defend an indefensible position, I understand why.

 

[sb1]

Well, we know Haskins sucks because of all those snaps.....Stidhim, not so much. Once again. You ignore the obvious to defend an indefensible position, I understand why.

Haskins would be worth benching Cam Newton to "see what he's got".

Stidham - not really.

 

[Nunchucks]

Haskins would be worth benching Cam Newton to "see what he's got".

Stidham - not really.

Based on draft position.... what a flawed argument.

 

[PScottman]

Jimmy G was SO AWESOME with his limited reps that the claim "JimmyG made the most of his opportunities" is assuredly just the truest utterance ever:

Jimmy Garoppolo ‘worst practice quarterback we've had,' Patriots analyst says

Jimmy Garoppolo had a rough 2019 preseason debut for the 49ers. That followed a horrid day at practice, where the quarterback threw interceptions on five consecutive plays. While Garoppolo’s issues might be chalked up to rust after he spent almost a year rehabbing from a torn ACL, what if...

www.nbcsports.com

Jimmy Garoppolo Painful to Watch In Return After Season-Ending Knee Injury

Jimmy G went just 1-for-6 for zero yards and an interception on Monday night

www.insidehook.com

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/jimmy-garoppolo-continues-to-struggle

See I can cherry pick small sample size examples too, except these are in the negative.

And he continues to be a poor practice player and injured a lot. Interestingly, how would SF know that (and by reports thinking of moving on from him) if he never started any games? The point is they wouldn't.

Position change for QBs requires A LOT of data. TB beat out Bledsoe based on preseason, offseason (incl camps), practice AND in-game work NOT just a few practice throws and any mop up play.

SB and Lancerman have taken the approach that the BB decision is based on "enough" data - most of the rest of us are of the opposite that there is NOT enough data for BB to make the decision to keep playing Cam (plus potential other concerns unrelated such as loyalty, reliance on vets, contract incentives to use as bargaining chips for incoming free agents, etc) hence the request to play Stidham to get that data so that instead of having to look for two QBs next year, maybe BB only has to look for one.

The funny thing is throwing out JimmyG is the exemplar of "having enough data" is now being REFUTED by that very same larger sample size of him actually starting in the league over a couple years now showing he MIGHT NOT be a starting level QB, but instead a good backup!

and surrounded him with an adequate supporting cast

With what cap room exactly? Signing AB wasn't a move to be adequate - who pulled the nutter on that one causing the league to threaten suspension if the team didn't do anything? BB or AB?

I forgot, the NFL is just like Madden, just turn off the cap and allow all trades - viola, you can have all-stars at every position!

 

[Ring 6]

Ok like I asked before - now do this with Ryan Mallett and tell me how that turns out.

You are making my point. You don’t have enough sample to be accurate.
You arguing the sample size is sufficient to make a judgment I am saying it’s not.

 

[Turkamu]

No it wasn’t really. Jimmy was 6/7 and a 140 passer rating in that Chiefs game and looked awesome. Ball out quick, decisive and didn’t fold at pressure.
Stid threw 3 passes against the chargers. Yippee.

Stid only wishes he could have half the career that Jimmy has had to date.

It's extremely disingenuous to compare JGs game against the Chiefs and Stidhams game against the Rams and act as if they are even remotely compareable. JG was playing with a roster that literally went on to win the superbowl, threw to Edelman, Lafell and Gronk against a Chiefs defense that wasn't exactly stacked.
Stidham on the other hand was playing with Gunner, Meyers and Harry, 3 guys that wouldn't make the majority of NFL rosters. And he was playing against the Nr1 D in football right now with Aaron Donald having another DPOY season and our OL completely ****ting the bed.
So i would say the fact that he was able to complete 5 of 7 passes and the one to Asiasi should've been a DPI, was impressive since he had basically no time whatsoever.

 

[lancerman]

It's extremely disingenuous to compare JGs game against the Chiefs and Stidhams game against the Rams and act as if they are even remotely compareable. JG was playing with a roster that literally went on to win the superbowl, threw to Edelman, Lafell and Gronk against a Chiefs defense that wasn't exactly stacked.
Stidham on the other hand was playing with Gunner, Meyers and Harry, 3 guys that wouldn't make the majority of NFL rosters. And he was playing against the Nr1 D in football right now with Aaron Donald having another DPOY season and our OL completely ****ting the bed.
So i would say the fact that he was able to complete 5 of 7 passes and the one to Asiasi should've been a DPI, was impressive since he had basically no time whatsoever.

Here’s the problem with this.... Jimmy G didn’t replace Tom Brady that season. Like Stidham isn’t replacing Cam this season. The sample size did not prove enough to supplant the starter. Jimmy did get another game and a half when Brady went out and that gave people confidence to think he could be a starter somewhere in the future. We did not move on from Brady, another team that needed a QB went for Jimmy,

The comparison anyways is Stidham to Cam. So even if you want to give Stidham a handicap for much less talent and harder defensive competition we saw Cam play the same team and there was no real major difference. You could say Cam threw an interception on a coverage where the intended target got bullied off a route, but that was with more than double the attempts. And Cam was throwing better deep balls than Stidham has ever shown he could in a game and had a much larger average. And sackwise Cam took 4 and Stidham took 2. Stidham was in far less so that’s basically saying the pressure would have effected anybody.

So even then he didn’t make a case for himself. He just validated they the situation sucked for whoever the QB was. If anything Stidham got to have his first drive after a big run back where he was in prime position to do a short drive for a score and it stalled out after one first down because he couldn’t take more than the defense gave.

 

[sb1]

Bill Belichick on starting Jarrett Stidham: We're not there now - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)

Patriots coach Bill Belichick not ready to make change at QB: 'We're not there right now' (nfl.com)

Good. Bill shutting this noise right the fack down.

Cam is our QB and he finishes the season as starter. Then decisions can be made after that.

 

[Turkamu]

The comparison anyways is Stidham to Cam. So even if you want to give Stidham a handicap for much less talent and harder defensive competition we saw Cam play the same team and there was no real major difference. You could say Cam threw an interception on a coverage where the intended target got bullied off a route, but that was with more than double the attempts. And Cam was throwing better deep balls than Stidham has ever shown he could in a game and had a much larger average. And sackwise Cam took 4 and Stidham took 2. Stidham was in far less so that’s basically saying the pressure would have effected anybody.

Except the week before, in a total blowout, Cam was 12 of 19 for 69 yards while Stidham was 2 of 3 for 61 yards. You might say a lot of that came from YAC by Gunner, but that's the same thing Edelman and Welker used to do for Brady. The QB still has to deliver the ball on time and with enough touch, something Cam has shown he is incapable of. As for the deep ball from Cam, his biggest completion was 31 yards to Meyers, so not exactly bombs away. Especially since he has shown with his failed mary attempt, that he is not capable anymore to throw as far as any average college QB. Brady in 2014 had one bad game against KC and never looked back, Cam has been bad since week 5.

And since a lot are still missing the point here, even though there are almost 20 pages of the same argument here, NOBODY is saying Stidham is going to be the next franchise QB for two decades. The season is over and now is the time to find out what Stidham is capable of when he gets a fair chance with a week of preparation and a gameplan suited to his skills. There is literally nothing to be won by starting Cam. If we win with Cam, our draft position gets worse and if we lose with him playing like the last few weeks, fans are getting pissed off even more. As for the "well Bill doesn't start him so he must be bad" argument, then why did he draft him? With all the forum experts here saying practice is so great for player evaluation compared to actual games, all the reports about jimmy out of training camp and from practices were not exactly positive but he was a totally different player in actual games.

I really don't get why some people here are afraid to death that Stidham might start and show that he is actually capable of throwing a football ...

 

[PScottman]

I really don't get why some people here are afraid to death that Stidham might start and show that he is actually capable of throwing a football ...

And the opposite is also true, there is NO FEAR from the rest of the posters that Stidham maybe does suck over a much wider and diverse sample size because then at least the team knows GOING INTO THE OFFSEASON whether the team has to use a significant amount of cap room for TWO QBs or just one, with the backup on a continuing rookie deal (Stidham).

Further these are the same posters that are advocating for significant cap room to be used on star WRs and TEs next year too.

The team has A LOT of cap room next year, but if you need TWO QBs that will eliminate either the ability to bring back some of the existing FAs on the team OR getting that talent at the skill positions. Was it Queen that said they want it all, and they want it now?

That's the funny part - they don't want to know about what they might have in-house with an actual large data sample instead they just want to complain more about how much BB cant evaluate talent by having him go out and EVALUATE MORE TALENT!

 

[lancerman]

Except the week before, in a total blowout, Cam was 12 of 19 for 69 yards while Stidham was 2 of 3 for 61 yards. You might say a lot of that came from YAC by Gunner, but that's the same thing Edelman and Welker used to do for Brady. The QB still has to deliver the ball on time and with enough touch, something Cam has shown he is incapable of. As for the deep ball from Cam, his biggest completion was 31 yards to Meyers, so not exactly bombs away. Especially since he has shown with his failed mary attempt, that he is not capable anymore to throw as far as any average college QB. Brady in 2014 had one bad game against KC and never looked back, Cam has been bad since week 5.

And since a lot are still missing the point here, even though there are almost 20 pages of the same argument here, NOBODY is saying Stidham is going to be the next franchise QB for two decades. The season is over and now is the time to find out what Stidham is capable of when he gets a fair chance with a week of preparation and a gameplan suited to his skills. There is literally nothing to be won by starting Cam. If we win with Cam, our draft position gets worse and if we lose with him playing like the last few weeks, fans are getting pissed off even more. As for the "well Bill doesn't start him so he must be bad" argument, then why did he draft him? With all the forum experts here saying practice is so great for player evaluation compared to actual games, all the reports about jimmy out of training camp and from practices were not exactly positive but he was a totally different player in actual games.

I really don't get why some people here are afraid to death that Stidham might start and show that he is actually capable of throwing a football ...

Stidham completed top passes that game and one was to a wide open Gunner who got yards after the catch. All in a game where Cam got to rushing TD’s and a passing TD in a blow out in garbage time, when the game was decided.

I already said in another thread, Cam has 11 rushing TD, the rest of the team has 8 combined. Cam is at 451 yards is the second highest rusher on the team and will break 500 yards. Cam’s long of 38 is just three yards shy of Harris longest rush this season. Pretty much everyone who has analyzed the run game this season has said Cam has been calling coverages for the run and his hand offs have been having teams play passive out of fear that he will keep it.

So swapping Stidham for Cam is going to significantly take away an asset from the only good part of our offense. Stidham simply is not going to fill that hole.

You also would be taking away a veteran leader who by all accounts has the locker room.

The trade off should be better than what you are removing.

The fact is Stidham has not shown that he is a better passer than Cam. Let along superior enough to justify the hit to the run game and disrupt the locker room. Especially if Bill’s goal is to win every game he can.

Nobody is afraid of anything. The fact is that hundreds of back ups have gone through this league and never done more or enough to get a shot at starting. Stidham so far has not. He does not deserve a chance to show that his play and the coaches evaluation is not showing the real picture. It’s wishful thinking because he’s on the team. The truth of the latter is that Stidham is more likely than not never going to be a starter and the coaches don’t see a point in wasting time on a never was and would rather stick with a had been that at leads adds something to the morale and run game

If you subscribe to the notion that Bill is going to try to win every game and as long as we aren’t completely mathematically eliminated that there is something to play for, then starting Stidham has very little upside.