Ben Roethlisberger unhappy with Steelers coaches, could seek trade

[Captain Cliche]

Is it me or is Roethlisberger borderline uncoachable?

A la Favre.... "I'm just gonna run around and chuck it".

 

[supafly]

Like many speculative reports, I'd take this one with a grain of salt.

The agent, player, coach, owner, coordinator etc all vehemently denied any knowledge whatsoever of this rumor this evening; and Roethlisberger has a very manageable last 2 yrs of salary/bonuses remaining on his deal.

They may be tempted to take a high QB pick next spring, but he may also sit on the bench for a year or two until Ben's deal is up. Either way, I really don't care.

 

[patsfan-1982]

ya his unhappy he has a bad OC only one guy to throw the ball to a bad OL no running game at all and for the first time in forever a below average defense and they are in CAP hell so no help is coming soon,

he is a 31 year old elite QB with two SB wins with his team even if he wanted to be traded they wont trade him unless he pulls a carson palmer and he wont

 

[mgteich]

It's you.

Please check the win percentages (including SB's) of all quarterbacks not named Montana since 1980. You know where Brady and Manning stand. Where do you think Big Ben is on that list?

Is it me or is Roethlisberger borderline uncoachable?

A la Favre.... "I'm just gonna run around and chuck it".

 

[lillloyd]

Is there some sort of "sports journalism scoreboard" that tracks the actual percentage accuracy of the inside "scoops" vomited up routinely by the national sports media?

If there isn't, there ought to be. It seems to me that, in the rush to get page clicks and followers, the national sports media regularly toss stories with 5% fact and 95% speculation/opinion against the wall to see what will stick, and then plasters a kind of pseudo-legitimacy by citing mysterious, unnamed team sources. They are then rewarded by the attention received from a story that is essentially manufactured--regardless of the validity of the underlying story--with no penalty assigned if the story ultimately proves completely false. Call it the "ProFootballTalk-ization" of national sports coverage, where clicks matter and actual content does not.

Everyone involved here has issued a very swift, vehement, and categorical denial of the story, including Roethlisberger himself. The grain of truth that Rapaport clings to here is that surely Roethlisberger *is* frustrated with a losing season, and he may in fact be frustrated with the direction OC Haley has taken the offense. But that is a far cry from actively seeking a trade, one that is highly risky and makes little sense for either the organization or player.

IMHO, people who support such a speculative trade (and I include plenty of Steelers fans here btw) have been spoiled by the ongoing presence of a franchise-caliber QB, and are guilty of *vastly* underestimating the difficulty in unearthing and developing another one. I'm just old enough to appreciate the nearly 25 year QB wasteland in Pittsburgh that bridged the gap between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger, and am in no rush to enter another era of Cliff Stoudts, Bubby Bristers, Kordell Stewarts and Tommy Maddoxes. As is the case with head coaches, it's quite easy to call for a team to dump a QB...but it's a LOT harder to find an equivalent replacement.

 

[everlong]

It seems to me that, in the rush to get page clicks and followers, the national sports media regularly toss stories with 5% fact and 95% speculation/opinion against the wall to see what will stick, and then plasters a kind of pseudo-legitimacy by citing mysterious, unnamed team sources. They are then rewarded by the attention received from a story that is essentially manufactured--regardless of the validity of the underlying story--with no penalty assigned if the story ultimately proves completely false. Call it the "ProFootballTalk-ization" of national sports coverage, where clicks matter and actual content does not.

Amen. Journalism in this country has gone to the level of being a used car salesman. All that matters is the sale and the ends justify the means.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Is there some sort of "sports journalism scoreboard" that tracks the actual percentage accuracy of the inside "scoops" vomited up routinely by the national sports media?

If there isn't, there ought to be. It seems to me that, in the rush to get page clicks and followers, the national sports media regularly toss stories with 5% fact and 95% speculation/opinion against the wall to see what will stick, and then plasters a kind of pseudo-legitimacy by citing mysterious, unnamed team sources. They are then rewarded by the attention received from a story that is essentially manufactured--regardless of the validity of the underlying story--with no penalty assigned if the story ultimately proves completely false. Call it the "ProFootballTalk-ization" of national sports coverage, where clicks matter and actual content does not.

Everyone involved here has issued a very swift, vehement, and categorical denial of the story, including Roethlisberger himself. The grain of truth that Rapaport clings to here is that surely Roethlisberger *is* frustrated with a losing season, and he may in fact be frustrated with the direction OC Haley has taken the offense. But that is a far cry from actively seeking a trade, one that is highly risky and makes little sense for either the organization or player.

IMHO, people who support such a speculative trade (and I include plenty of Steelers fans here btw) have been spoiled by the ongoing presence of a franchise-caliber QB, and are guilty of *vastly* underestimating the difficulty in unearthing and developing another one. I'm just old enough to appreciate the nearly 25 year QB wasteland in Pittsburgh that bridged the gap between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger, and am in no rush to enter another era of Cliff Stoudts, Bubby Bristers, Kordell Stewarts and Tommy Maddoxes. As is the case with head coaches, it's quite easy to call for a team to dump a QB...but it's a LOT harder to find an equivalent replacement.

I pretty much agree with you. I did bring up the possibility of trading Roethlisberger given the market for franchise QB's and the current state of the Steelers, but like you i think that getting your hands on a franchise QB is really really hard to do so you almost always keep them when you have them. If you think Roehlisberger has 7-8 more years of high quality play in him then there is no way you trade him and you find ways to build back up around him instead. They already have a couple of pieces on the OL but overall the Steelers are facing a pretty substantial rebuild. It will be interesting to see what they do this offseason but I'm guessing there is going to be bloodletting of older players like Taylor and Clark etc... And they won't make much of an attempt to pay guys like Sanders but will instead focus on continuing to rebuild the lines and their defensive front 7 will get the most attention. The easiest way would probably be to dump Haley and return to more of the old Steelers and Raiders approach of pounding the rock and throwing deep for big plays, as i don't see them spending their capital trying to get all the skill players necessary for a west coast offense. Draft big downfield receivers and a franchise TE and focus the rest on defense.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

ben is a *****

 

[mgteich]

Criticize the media as much as you wish.

The reality is that Big Ben is "unhappy" under the present OC and has been since the OC arrived. That is the title of this thread. I agree with this title.

Those who think that Roth is NOT unhappy need to have a better understanding of the game.

Perhaps the media shouldn't bother covering their teams and should ignore the obvious elephant in the room. After all, it isn't NEWS that PITT has been going downhill and the coach and ownership are doing little to stop the trend. But, IMHO, media should do more than report news. They, and fan message boards, should indeed speculate; that is a lot of what they do.

Steeler fans have the illusion of a competitive team as long as Big Ben is there. But, barring any changes in FO strategy, it will continue to be an illusion. The players and the fans all understand that things could be better with better coaching and personnel decisions. And, yes, the fans are spoiled. They have had a top quarterback and a top team for the last decade.

Is there some sort of "sports journalism scoreboard" that tracks the actual percentage accuracy of the inside "scoops" vomited up routinely by the national sports media?

If there isn't, there ought to be. It seems to me that, in the rush to get page clicks and followers, the national sports media regularly toss stories with 5% fact and 95% speculation/opinion against the wall to see what will stick, and then plasters a kind of pseudo-legitimacy by citing mysterious, unnamed team sources. They are then rewarded by the attention received from a story that is essentially manufactured--regardless of the validity of the underlying story--with no penalty assigned if the story ultimately proves completely false. Call it the "ProFootballTalk-ization" of national sports coverage, where clicks matter and actual content does not.

Everyone involved here has issued a very swift, vehement, and categorical denial of the story, including Roethlisberger himself. The grain of truth that Rapaport clings to here is that surely Roethlisberger *is* frustrated with a losing season, and he may in fact be frustrated with the direction OC Haley has taken the offense. But that is a far cry from actively seeking a trade, one that is highly risky and makes little sense for either the organization or player.

IMHO, people who support such a speculative trade (and I include plenty of Steelers fans here btw) have been spoiled by the ongoing presence of a franchise-caliber QB, and are guilty of *vastly* underestimating the difficulty in unearthing and developing another one. I'm just old enough to appreciate the nearly 25 year QB wasteland in Pittsburgh that bridged the gap between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger, and am in no rush to enter another era of Cliff Stoudts, Bubby Bristers, Kordell Stewarts and Tommy Maddoxes. As is the case with head coaches, it's quite easy to call for a team to dump a QB...but it's a LOT harder to find an equivalent replacement.

 

[lillloyd]

Criticize the media as much as you wish.

The reality is that Big Ben is "unhappy" under the present OC and has been since the OC arrived. That is the title of this thread. I agree with this title.

Those who think that Roth is NOT unhappy need to have a better understanding of the game.

Is this referring to me? I clearly state in my post -- the post you have quoted in your own post-- that:

The grain of truth that Rapaport clings to here is that surely Roethlisberger *is* frustrated with a losing season, and he may in fact be frustrated with the direction OC Haley has taken the offense. But that is a far cry from actively seeking a trade, one that is highly risky and makes little sense for either the organization or player.​

As far as "agreeing with the title" goes, the relevant part of the Rapaport title (the part that actually made it spread immediately across sports media, and which IMHO is purely speculative/pandering for clicks) is clearly the part that suggests Roethlisberger would seek a trade. Without that speculation, this is simply not newsworthy; as you say, everyone knows that Roethlisberger, and the rest of the Steelers for that matter, are unhappy. (They're 3-6 after!) But with that speculation, it enters PFT/TMZ territory, IMHO.

Perhaps the media shouldn't bother covering their teams and should ignore the obvious elephant in the room. After all, it isn't NEWS that PITT has been going downhill and the coach and ownership are doing little to stop the trend. But, IMHO, media should do more than report news. They, and fan message boards, should indeed speculate; that is a lot of what they do.

?? Whoa, slow down man! I'm not suggesting the media "shouldn't bother covering teams"...I'm just suggesting that they do it professionally. I certainly have zero problem with the OP or message boards engaging in speculation but IMHO actual reporters should be held to a higher standard. Otherwise you end up with a lot of self-serving and sloppy speculation which is dressed up as factual "reporting"...IMO, Rapaport's "scoop" qualifies.

Steeler fans have the illusion of a competitive team as long as Big Ben is there. But, barring any changes in FO strategy, it will continue to be an illusion. The players and the fans all understand that things could be better with better coaching and personnel decisions. And, yes, the fans are spoiled. They have had a top quarterback and a top team for the last decade.

FWIW I was all over this board the week prior to the NE-Pitt game detailing Pitt's many issues...including the coaching. And frankly I don't think many Steelers fans are under the "illusion" you describe; I know of very few Steelers fans who just want to keep the status quo (if anything, they are on the opposite extreme in that they want to can everybody lol).

Personally I don't expect Haley and perhaps the OL coach to survive into 2014. I do expect Tomlin back.

 

[lillloyd]

I pretty much agree with you. I did bring up the possibility of trading Roethlisberger given the market for franchise QB's and the current state of the Steelers, but like you i think that getting your hands on a franchise QB is really really hard to do so you almost always keep them when you have them. If you think Roehlisberger has 7-8 more years of high quality play in him then there is no way you trade him and you find ways to build back up around him instead. They already have a couple of pieces on the OL but overall the Steelers are facing a pretty substantial rebuild. It will be interesting to see what they do this offseason but I'm guessing there is going to be bloodletting of older players like Taylor and Clark etc... And they won't make much of an attempt to pay guys like Sanders but will instead focus on continuing to rebuild the lines and their defensive front 7 will get the most attention. The easiest way would probably be to dump Haley and return to more of the old Steelers and Raiders approach of pounding the rock and throwing deep for big plays, as i don't see them spending their capital trying to get all the skill players necessary for a west coast offense. Draft big downfield receivers and a franchise TE and focus the rest on defense.

Beyond the question of whether Roethlisberger or the Steelers actually would want a trade (and certainly yesterday's denials suggest not), there are practical issues that would make such a trade truly difficult to execute.

What teams out there would want to take on a mammoth salary for a QB with 3-5 years left? Most teams either have a young ascending QB that either looks like a potential future star, or is so young that they still need time to evaluate. Teams that don't have such a QB in place are likely more than just a QB away from being truly competitive, so having such a large cap-eater on the roster could ****** the development of the rest of the team.

You're basically left with teams that truly believe they are just a QB away from competing for a championship. Who qualifies for that nowadays? Denver swapping Tebow for Manning was a rare example.

And then you have the issue of fair compensation: you'd have to be a team that felt it was just a QB away, and be willing to offer a bevy of picks (or at the very least, a pick with the chance of drafting a high first round successor), for a player with a limited shelf life. And if they offered less than that, why would Pittsburgh accept? Would they reasonably accept a 3rd rounder just to clear cap space and start over? The FO would be skewered for giving away a franchise QB for nothing.

So personally I think it would be extremely difficult to execute a trade like this even if Roethlisberger and the Steelers' FO were both willing...something which they both adamantly denied yesterday.

One really interesting question that I think will come up more and more in the comings years is: what is the true value of the $100 million QB? The Patriots and Broncos are the exceptions; most teams with top-heavy QB contracts are struggling, just look at the Ravens or Giants or Steelers or Falcons. I wonder if there will be a Moneyball-style wisdom that eventually emerges that contends that a more balanced roster is a better approach.

 

[Brady6]

It's you.

Please check the win percentages (including SB's) of all quarterbacks not named Montana since 1980. You know where Brady and Manning stand. Where do you think Big Ben is on that list?

That’s all well and good but it is hardly as if Ben carried the team on his shoulders to the super bowl the 2005 squad was the 3rd overall ranked defense in the league that forced 4 turnovers vs. Denver in the AFC championship game and then held Seattle to just 10 points in the SB, Ben was 9/21 for 123 passing yards, 2 interceptions and a 22.6 passer rating. The 2008 squad had the 1st overall ranked defense in the league and forced 6 turnovers in its 3 playoff games and beat an 8-8 Arizona Cardinals team in the SB thanks in large part to a 100 yard interception return for a touchdown by James Harrison. I am not taking anything away from him but he is not a franchise QB by any stretch of the imagination, he has played only 1 full 16 games season in his career and his 2 championships came against 2 of the weakest NFC teams to ever make a super bowl. Eli Manning has 2 SB and contributed much more to his team winning than Ben, I am not willing to call either of them elite.

In terms of not being coachable it is not just that poster, this is a player who has twice been accused of rape, had an off field motorcycle accident, openly blasted the hiring of Haley in the media, has had issues with being overweight, had issues in the locker room in terms of being condescending (see quote and article below) and now these rumors. I don’t care if he has more SB than Montana and Brady combined he is not what I would consider a player worth having.

Davenport estimated that about 60 percent of the locker room felt like Roethlisberger thought he was "bigger than the team" and not focused on winning.

Ben Roethlisberger faced locker room issues, say former Pittsburgh Steelers teammates - ESPN