BB THE GOAT

[Calhoun44]

Peyton Manning took an inferior coach (Caldwell) to a Super Bowl.

IIRC, I believe Manning was dragged to that SB victory by an amazing defensive performance throughout those playoffs. But I could be thinking of a different year. (Just looked it up, he was an asst. head coach and the QB coach that year when Indy won).
So, this is the year they lost to NO, right?

 

[sb1]

IIRC, I believe Manning was dragged to that SB victory by an amazing defensive performance throughout those playoffs. But I could be thinking of a different year. (Just looked it up, he was an asst. head coach and the QB coach that year when Indy won).
So, this is the year they lost to NO, right?

Yes it was. I think Dungy was the SB winning coach when they won it all.

 

[RobertWeathers]

IIRC, I believe Manning was dragged to that SB victory by an amazing defensive performance throughout those playoffs. But I could be thinking of a different year. (Just looked it up, he was an asst. head coach and the QB coach that year when Indy won).
So, this is the year they lost to NO, right?

He was carried in 2015 and 2006.

I give him credit for the 2nd 1/2 vs us in 2006 and a few good throws in 2015

 

[Calhoun44]

Here are my simple thoughts:
-The team with the better coaches puts their players in better position to win more often than other teams with lesser skilled coaches.
-Having talented players gives the coaches more options to put those players in better position to win.
-Talented players make more plays than less talented players.

I love that NE had the GOAT HC and the GOAT QB at the same time and that they elevated each other to a level that may never be seen again.

 

[sb1]

He was carried in 2015 and 2006.

I give him credit for the 2nd 1/2 vs us in 2006 and a few good throws in 2015

I think Bob Sanders coming back healthy in 2006 had a lot to do with their run to the title. He won them that title. That defense couldn't stop a nosebleed and with his addition they became great almost instantaneously in the playoffs.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Bob Sanders coming back healthy in 2006 had a lot to do with their run to the title. He won them that title. That defense couldn't stop a nosebleed and with his addition they became great almost instantaneously in the playoffs.

Perfect example of why it’s not just about the QB.
The Colts normally pathetic run defense was outstanding in the post season. Far better than it ever was at any time in the manning era (and that’s because they built the d to play with a lead and ignore the run).
Then in the SB they ran for over 200 yards.
If it was all about the QB why did FauxGoat only win 1 SB in all those years, and he did it when the other pieces of the team rose up, excelled and diminished the reliance on the QB?

 

[Ian]

He was carried in 2015 and 2006.

I give him credit for the 2nd 1/2 vs us in 2006 and a few good throws in 2015

I give the credit to the flu. All the guys on defense were sick, which absolutely sunk them in that second half.

 

[Ring 6]

Here are my simple thoughts:
-The team with the better coaches puts their players in better position to win more often than other teams with lesser skilled coaches.
-Having talented players gives the coaches more options to put those players in better position to win.
-Talented players make more plays than less talented players.

I love that NE had the GOAT HC and the GOAT QB at the same time and that they elevated each other to a level that may never be seen again.

No coach has ever won without good players. You can make the argument of any successful coach that he had good players and try to take credit away.
Ultimately winning the most means the most and all the what ifs are silly.
You win championships by earning them. “They wouldn’t have won without this guy” or even worse “he would have won with that team” just ignores that winning is a bit competing not hypothetical arguments.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think Bob Sanders coming back healthy in 2006 had a lot to do with their run to the title. He won them that title. That defense couldn't stop a nosebleed and with his addition they became great almost instantaneously in the playoffs.

I'd have to dig it up but a few years back I did a with/without Bob Sanders on the Colts D reg season and playoffs.

Every measurable defensive stat.....Points allowed per game, forced turnovers per game, yards per game/per play, yards rushing/ave per carry were all better stats when Sanders played.

I think the points per game one was most noticeable.....with Sanders they allowed a FG less per game. For one player to make that significant of a difference is incredible.

There are a ton of great defensive players in NFL history but the level of disruption he caused was insane. The guy was a heat-seeking missile.

 

[Ring 6]

I give the credit to the flu. All the guys on defense were sick, which absolutely sunk them in that second half.

But it also illustrates how ridiculously successful this team was.
Everyone gets sick there, welker drops a SB win, Brady injured for 2008, a bad day in 2010 etc etc. They dealt with so many one offs that cost them even more.

Look at the drive, the fumble, Purdy getting hurt against the eagles, wide right, Lee Evans, Timmy smith you can find one little thing that sets winning on track or off track. To say it’s all about the QB is silly.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I give the credit to the flu. All the guys on defense were sick, which absolutely sunk them in that second half.

I know Colvin and Hobbs were def sick. Wilfork and Green were rumored.

Not having Rodney was the killer. F-ing Jeff Fisher.

 

[Ian]

I know Colvin and Hobbs were def sick. Wilfork and Green were rumored.

Not having Rodney was the killer. F-ing Jeff Fisher.

I believe Bruschi was also ... just brutal. They were gassed down the stretch and it was just painful to watch, especially having seen the lead evaporate while knowing that even with what little talent they had at receiver, they would have rolled over Chicago. Still irks me.

 

[Ring 6]

I believe Bruschi was also ... just brutal. They were gassed down the stretch and it was just painful to watch, especially having seen the lead evaporate while knowing that even with what little talent they had at receiver, they would have rolled over Chicago. Still irks me.

That’s because we are basically spoiled and entitled by the success and expected we should win it every year. We got more success than any fan base deserves.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I believe Bruschi was also ... just brutal. They were gassed down the stretch and it was just painful to watch, especially having seen the lead evaporate while knowing that even with what little talent they had at receiver, they would have rolled over Chicago. Still irks me.

It was horrible. Top 5 devastating losses in franchise history.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That's not a debate at all. Neither is this but it happens nonetheless: Who is more important to the New England Patriots Dynasty 2001-2018... Brady or Belichick?

My answer to that question is "Next question."

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The anti-Bill crowd was going to come regardless

So, you're suggesting that TB12 rises to the level of his competition?
Interesting point.

 

[Ian]

That’s because we are basically spoiled and entitled by the success and expected we should win it every year. We got more success than any fan base deserves.

Yeah, but it had nothing to do with being spoiled or entitled. That would sort of insinuate that we thought they should win because they were just supposed to. That wasn't the case, because they were still good enough to finish the job that year and obviously racked up a big lead at the half.

Unfortunately, you know how that game went. It was just an unlucky turn of events. A healthy non-flu team would have rolled over them. Watching those guys struggle in the second half was just painful to watch ... I can still see those guys gasping, it was crazy.

 

[Ian]

So, you're suggesting that TB12 rises to the level of his competition?
Interesting point.

My one issue with Tom is he never went out and took control of any of the Super Bowl wins early and built a big lead ... it always took time - it felt like - to get going. Would have loved just one win that didn't come down to the end. I'd probably have a little more hair on my head

At the same time, it's obviously not about style points - a win is a win. But still, would have been nice to have them have been a little less stressful.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, but it had nothing to do with being spoiled or entitled. That would sort of insinuate that we thought they should win because they were just supposed to. That wasn't the case, because they were still good enough to finish the job that year and obviously racked up a big lead at the half.

Unfortunately, you know how that game went. It was just an unlucky turn of events. A healthy non-flu team would have rolled over them. Watching those guys struggle in the second half was just painful to watch ... I can still see those guys gasping, it was crazy.

Yeah I’m just saying it reached point where we were shocked at any post season loss.
And I didn’t mean it as we became spoiled and entitled I meant it as they spoiled us.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

His pristine legacy and clout is slowly eroding away.

The optics of ownership calling out his drafting, win - loss record, playoff drought and personnel moves is concerning.

The Championships and Super Bowl rings will always be there, but the demise of the franchise post Brady is a bitter ending.

"demise of the franchise?" That's a little overly dramatic. They're 25--25 with a trip to the playoffs since his departure. That's not great, but hardly a total collapse. Let's see if Mac can deliver with some better support, if he can't, they'll have to move on. Teams have wandered in the wilderness after their dynasty days a lot longer than three years.