Ball never touched the ground

[cmasspatsfan]

There's another thing I thought of, isn't he down once his elbow hits the ground? If he fumbled after his elbow hit the ground wouldn't they have called him down? This whole thing doesn't make sense.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

sometime mine touches the ground

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I thought they changed it that season between the AFCCG (when a similar catch to Henry's by Jesse James was overturned) and the Super Bowl (when a similar catch by someone, maybe Ertz or a running back, was upheld). But I could be misremembering/conflating multiple Steelers games.

That sounds right.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

NFL NY probably prefers pats do not make the playoffs. They have no marketable playmakers and are usually boring to watch.
NFL has to feed their families

 

[Patsgofor4]

Didn't they change this rule in the middle of the 2017 season, which helped the Eagles win the super bowl?

Walt Anderson, who made the call from NY, was the deflategate ref and is 70 years old...he probably should retire

In that Super Bowl they applied a rule that didn’t kick in until the following season. The ball was moving in Clement‘s hands while he was going to the ground but they still called it a catch. even though that wasn’t a catch for the previous 19 weeks of the season.

 

[Koma]

In that Super Bowl they applied a rule that didn’t kick in until the following season. The ball was moving in Clement‘s hands while he was going to the ground but they still called it a catch. even though that wasn’t a catch for the previous 19 weeks of the season.

I was just going to post something similar. The new/current catch rules were implemented in that SB, but that was never publicly announced.

Report: NFL used new catch rule in Super Bowl replay decisions

NFL owners didn't vote on a new catch rule until Tuesday when it passed unanimously.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Edit to add: Eagles hall of famer and key deflategate figure Troy Vincent was sitting in the replay booth for that game. If James White had made a similar juggling catch heading out of the end zone, which set of rules do you think they would have applied?

 

[Patsgofor4]

"after reviewing the play, the quarterback's arm was going forward...."

let's pump the brakes on *****ing about the refs

Congratulations on your asinine post. First, good job going back more that 20 years for your example of why we shouldn’t complain about terrible officiating. Second, the example that you reference has no relevance to what happened on Thursday night. The tuck rule was a bad rule that was applied correctly in that game. On Thursday night, they seemingly apply to rule that hasn’t been in existence for three years. Apples and oranges.

Did the Pats shoot themselves in the foot multiple times against the Vikings? Of course. Would they have won the game if they hadn’t blown the Henry review and the obvious hold on Dugger? Very likely.

I love these “Patriots fans” hardos who try to prove that they are not homers by saying things like “good teams overcome bad officiating.” That is such a horsesh*t. There are numerous examples during the Brady area that demonstrate that is not always true. To name a few off of the top of my head:

1. 2006 playoff game in Denver (Ben Watson running down champ Bailey game, after some quarterback threw a terrible interception from inside of the Broncos 10 yard line. I distinctly remember that this Brady but I’ve been told here by many that Brady didn’t ever make a mistake so if somebody else.)
2. 2007 Super Bowl (multiple “missed” holding calls by the Giants OL during the helmet catch play).
3. At Carolina (blatant hold on Gronk, BB running after the officials trying to escape).
4. 2019 at home vs. KC (missed Kelce fumble negating a Gilmore recovery runback, Harry TD called OOB, missed bearhug on KC CB on long pass by TB12 that would have given the Pats a first down at the KC 10).

In all of those games, a “good team” was unable to overcome bad officiating.

 

[Kdo5]

Move on, we had multiple other opportunities to not screw up. Lots of mental errors, it was a well earned loss.

 

[oldrover]

This takes me back to Pats/Raiders 1976 roughing the passer and (no call of) holding on Villipiano.

But not in a good way.

Pats lost because two special teams plays added up to 14 points. It is what it is. On to Buffalo.

 

[Patsfan177a]

The unforgivable part is that everyone could see his hand underneath the ball, so therefore it was impossible to confirm that the ball hit the ground, and therefore impossible to overturn the initial TD call. It’s nice to see this pic confirming the catch, but the onus was on replay to confirm the ball hit the ground, which anyone could tell was impossible to do once the first angle was seen.

True, however the rule about surviving the ground was changed in 2018. Even if the ball touched the ground and even if it moved, it can still be a catch.

 

[Patsfan177a]

In my mind, not based on the rules, mostly because I'm not sure what "a football move" is (When one is playing football, isn't everything considered a "football move"?), I think that both plays in that clip should have been catches, but only Kelce's catch should have been a TD. Henry's second foot never comes down until after his elbow hits the ground and then he loses control of the ball. But since his hand is under the ball the refs should have ruled him down at the 1/2 yard line.

The ball is past the plane of the goal line when Henry's knee touches the ground. One knee equals two feet! TD!

 

[Kasmir]

2. 2007 Super Bowl (multiple “missed” holding calls by the Giants OL during the helmet catch play).

Watching Adalious Thomas being pulled backwards away from Eli Manning still rankles...

 

[TheRainMaker]

"after reviewing the play, the quarterback's arm was going forward...."

let's pump the brakes on *****ing about the refs

Tom had a Freudian slip and told Charles Woodson he fumbled the ball. They both had a laugh when Woodson noticed it.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Move on, we had multiple other opportunities to not screw up. Lots of mental errors, it was a well earned loss.

Generally this advice makes sense esp if it's just 1 or 2 calls, but in this case the reversal cost us 4 points and the blatant missed hold on the TD return cost us another 7, so that's 11 points without any debate. Just incompetent officiating, 11 points, L instead of W. Then the missed Mac facemask likely cost us at least 3 more, though it wasn't as quid pro quo as the other two.

Now there's no doubt that some completely boneheaded plays cost us another 7 points (running into the kicker), probably 3 (or was it 7?) more points when Judon went offside on 3rd & 12, and probably 4 more from the Henry & Mac mistakes at the end of the half.

The mistakes hurt us just as bad, but we're entitled to competent/fair/average officiating. This was way short of that.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The game is getting worse by lawyering so many calls and getting investigators to review these calls in booths. That was a damn catch.

Every team has had calls go their way and not gone their way. But there hasn't been a team like the Pats that have had back breaking calls with the most at stake over the years.

2005 they were going for a 3 peat and they got the Champ Bailey touchback. Even though it would've bailed out Tom with his terrible throw, I don't think they were going to beat Denver anyways. That was one of a few teams that got in Tom's head.

2006 was the made up rule of "face guarding". By the way, how did Phil Simms predict that right before the refs announced it? I always thought that was odd. Then Troy Brown or Ben Watson got mugged by Marlin Jackson late in the game. No call.

2007 they were on the brink of immortality and the refs missed Pierre Woods had possession of the football before that midget RB entered the chat and wrestled the football away on the ground. Then the entire D line getting choked and Mike Carey not calling in the grasp like he said he was about to.

2017 they were going for another repeat only to have many calls not go there way. From blatantly bobbling catches to running illegal plays that were missed.

 

[ashley]

NFL NY probably prefers pats do not make the playoffs. They have no marketable playmakers and are usually boring to watch.
NFL has to feed their families

another horrible attempt at trolling

 

[JMC00]

In all of those games, a “good team” was unable to overcome bad officiating.

I would say 2015 was a "good team" (started 10-0 before injuries) but those Denver & Philly games back to back with all the blunders and bad officiating they weren't able to overcome and actually cost a home AFCC and another SB.

2014- SB win
2015- SB win
2016- SB win
2017- SB loss
2018- SB win

Would have been 5 straight SB appearances and 4 out of 5.

 

[upstater1]

Mike Pereira just now on Fox for the Penn State vs. Michigan State game: (PSU receiver catches the ball in the end zone, goes to ground, ball hits the ground, but he maintains possession i.e. his hands are on it) "The receiver catches the ball but then goes to ground and must maintain possession, you see the ball hit the ground, but his hands are still securely around it, after it hits the ground you see the ball move a little bit, but at no point did he lose possession. His hands were still on the ball."

Interesting that Pereira saw the ball move after it touched the ground and he said that's OK as long as his hands are on it. How does a ball move at all if one's hands are still on it?

Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Calhoun44]

The ball is past the plane of the goal line when Henry's knee touches the ground. One knee equals two feet! TD!

Okay. I'll have to re-watch that play. I thought only one foot touched the ground before the elbow hit. Thanks

 

[TheRainMaker]

I would say 2015 was a "good team" (started 10-0 before injuries) but those Denver & Philly games back to back with all the blunders and bad officiating they weren't able to overcome and actually cost a home AFCC and another SB.

What really cost them HFA was not taking the Jets seriously in week 16. Win that game and they get 3 weeks of rest plus HFA which they really needed. Then they followed that up with another loss in Miami in week 17 showing no urgency. BB had said he wasn't afraid of going back to Denver which was bizarre given his teams aren't good in Denver and they had a 2-3 playoff record on the road. Two of those 3 losses were playing in Denver which that became loss number 3 out of 4. They would've obliterated Denver if that game were at Gillette.