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Asterisk next to Pats' record removed from Jaguars' Web site


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Wow, alright, rather than individual quoted responses heres this. I know that I'm a troll in foreign territory so I was rather prepared for what I am receiving right now, but if just one person would get the point I'm sending this would have been a little more low key. This is all bigger than an asterisk. It is about respect. MY POINT is that this needs to stop being a catalyst for the "disrespect" card. I'm just saying, read any article on the Jags site and you will see that our franchise has immense respect for the Pats. Right now, the Pats are the best team in the NFL and no one is trying to take that away from them, not even Vic Ketchman. Subtle humor got taken to an unintended level and sure, Vic is responsible for that, but that is why he took the asterisk off. I just wish this wasn't fueling the fire for this game. I'm all for getting amped and hyped and even being a little roughly competitive before a game starts, but this is not the material to derive it from. The man meant no harm. And one last thing, don't try and separate breaking the rules from cheating. You steal answers in school, you're not just stealing answers, you're cheating. You cut corners in a race, you're not just cutting corners, your cheating. The two are inseparable. It doesn't take away from the fact that had SpyGate never occurred, you Patsies would still be where you are today, on the top. It's just the fact is it happened. On top of all this, I hope to see a good, fair, clean game tonight. GO JAGS! :)
 
And one last thing, don't try and separate breaking the rules from cheating. You steal answers in school, you're not just stealing answers, you're cheating. You cut corners in a race, you're not just cutting corners, your cheating. The two are inseparable.

Spygate to use your school analogy, is like having an open book test but you have to have your book on the desk. The Pats had their book on the floor and were in violation of the "having the book on the desk" part of the rule.

For the last time, teams are allowed to film the other team's defensive signals just not from the sideline.
 
I've been reading Vic Ketchman for the past two years and, actually, see him as one of the most perceptive football analysts anywhere. He does a GREAT job breaking down games and is to the point.

That being said, everyone makes mistakes, and the asterisk (especially considering it is an OFFICIAL team site) is a huge misstep.

It is a huge mis-step because the NFL is actually built upon a foundation of subterfuge, spying and intrigue. There is nothing Boy Scoutish about the NFL. It's always been that way, and for anybody to attack that foundation is foolish unless they want to alter the way the league functions at its roots.

IMO, it's the end of the NFL as an edgey product if this assault continues. IMO, the NFL is in its dying days as the NFL that we know because there is a weird tone to take down people that is rampant in the current and recent writings and opinons. Now it's all about taking down, tearing down, trashing the work of the NFL's best people, and I don't mean just Bill. Fans do it, and other fans retalitate. There is retribution in mind for Bill backers, and I see that every time there is a slight mis-step by another team or coach, Bill backers leap to skewer the guy as if he was KGB spying on America. It's ramping up, not down. It's not going away because somebody has started a snowball rolling down hill, and it's a steep hill, and nobody is going to stop the snowball.

That's why I think it's suicide for what Peter King and others are doing over a misdemeanor, a jaywalking incident. They are exagerating this thing for the purpose of pay back, and retribution. This is not a winning strategy. Bill backers are actually contributing to this whole problem by keeping it alive every time a Mangini team barks signals on the Ravens. Bill backers could even end up pushing soemthing far more ugly into the limelight to ease the strain on Bill, and to get pure retribution. This will take down the NFL because the target's backers will do the same thing. It's a war.

IMO the only way to fix this war is for the entire political climate to stop with the blame and retribution theme, because it has filtered down to sports. Sports retribution themes are nothing but a copy-cat edition of what the War on Terror is: Blaming the underclass for their own misery. We're so jacked up on blame and retribution now that a little old lady is a threat at TSA. A little old lady in a wheelchair must remove her shoes and prove that she's not a terrorist, and the old lady will be punished heavily for resisting. That's the mentality driving everything we do now: Paranoia and retribution and the nitpicking that makes old ladies a threat.

This is what we're doing to the NFL: Beating on it and tearing it apart to see what little bombs might be in a coach's shoes. It's RIDICULOUS, but so is what is causing this mentality throughout our society. Is there an escape for the NFL as an icon of American Imperialist Power? Hell no. The sport is under attack from every angle, including its own supporters. Peter King won't get his final glory until the NFL is wobbling and under daily attack in the tabloids.

My only question is: How long can it hold out in its current form? Not more than a few years, I think. Then it will be 24 and 7 about cheating, steroids, and tearing apart personal lives, and tearing apart the record books to set it all straight for the Retribution Freaks, the Paranoia Freaks, the War on Terror Freaks, the super Do Gooder Freaks.

MLB is faced with this a little sooner than the NFL. Watch what happens to MLB and figure it as the California Effect (it happens there first, and filters east in a couple of years.) Now MLB is in the news constantly for the purpose of the do-gooders getting their retribution. It's messy, it's ugly, it's contentious, and American TV loves it.

Part of me is holding my breath waiting for the next shoe to drop on the NFL. It may not be about Bill or the Patriots. We have a spying eye on everything now, and writers want to grab the glory of reporting the scandal of the century for the world's tightest sports organization. Why? I think it's because politically we're doing the same thing around the world: Spying on people, digging up information, casting little people as the evil ones, blame, retribution, the desire to nuke everything that doesn't eat Mad Cow Disease at MacDonald's and swill it down with liquified plastic and sugar. We're going mad and the NFL cannot escape our madness.
 
Wow, alright, rather than individual quoted responses heres this. I know that I'm a troll in foreign territory so I was rather prepared for what I am receiving right now, but if just one person would get the point I'm sending this would have been a little more low key. This is all bigger than an asterisk. It is about respect. MY POINT is that this needs to stop being a catalyst for the "disrespect" card. I'm just saying, read any article on the Jags site and you will see that our franchise has immense respect for the Pats. Right now, the Pats are the best team in the NFL and no one is trying to take that away from them, not even Vic Ketchman. Subtle humor got taken to an unintended level and sure, Vic is responsible for that, but that is why he took the asterisk off. I just wish this wasn't fueling the fire for this game. I'm all for getting amped and hyped and even being a little roughly competitive before a game starts, but this is not the material to derive it from. The man meant no harm. And one last thing, don't try and separate breaking the rules from cheating. You steal answers in school, you're not just stealing answers, you're cheating. You cut corners in a race, you're not just cutting corners, your cheating. The two are inseparable. It doesn't take away from the fact that had SpyGate never occurred, you Patsies would still be where you are today, on the top. It's just the fact is it happened. On top of all this, I hope to see a good, fair, clean game tonight. GO JAGS! :)


Obviously, you still don't get it.

Your analogy to stealing answers to a test would be accurate here if the thief was doing it without concealing his methods in the front seat of the classroom right in front of the teacher with a neon sign flashing on his jersey saying "I'm taking these answers".

Otherwise, you, and a great deal of short-attention span mediots continue to misrepresent what happened. (But it sells papers and gets clicks on websites - - consider THAT when you talk about "cutting corners" on real work).

It was a violation, and yes, the Patriots deserved to be penalized. However, "cheating" in this case is a term used by those who are "cheating". These are professional journalists who are cutting corners on the truth out of shear laziness (or to falsely gain readership - - after all controversy sells when quality and truthfulness doesn't). There was no attempt at subterfuge. that is the crux of the matter. Was it "brazen", was it "In your face" ., was it a violation that deserved a punishment? - - yes, no doubt. But "cheating" is a term, in this case, that demeans the term user, not the target.
 
Wow, alright, rather than individual quoted responses heres this. I know that I'm a troll in foreign territory so I was rather prepared for what I am receiving right now, but if just one person would get the point I'm sending this would have been a little more low key. This is all bigger than an asterisk. It is about respect. MY POINT is that this needs to stop being a catalyst for the "disrespect" card. I'm just saying, read any article on the Jags site and you will see that our franchise has immense respect for the Pats. Right now, the Pats are the best team in the NFL and no one is trying to take that away from them, not even Vic Ketchman. Subtle humor got taken to an unintended level and sure, Vic is responsible for that, but that is why he took the asterisk off. I just wish this wasn't fueling the fire for this game. I'm all for getting amped and hyped and even being a little roughly competitive before a game starts, but this is not the material to derive it from. The man meant no harm. And one last thing, don't try and separate breaking the rules from cheating. You steal answers in school, you're not just stealing answers, you're cheating. You cut corners in a race, you're not just cutting corners, your cheating. The two are inseparable. It doesn't take away from the fact that had SpyGate never occurred, you Patsies would still be where you are today, on the top. It's just the fact is it happened. On top of all this, I hope to see a good, fair, clean game tonight. GO JAGS! :)

First of all, thanks for having the guts to come out here and hang in. Here's to a good game with no injuries either way.

Second, at best the guy's (Vic's) explanation of "subtle" humor doesn't fly. To Pats fans there's nothing subtle about an asterisk after all the fuss this year. And, most folks who use it aren't trying to be subtle, they're right in our faces.

Third, it's amazing how many of us have become experts on the language and definition of cheating. We all have our opinions in this regard, but let's also just look at the facts. The Commissioner of the NFL decided that the Patriots had broken the rule regarding taping during a game and fined them and their Coach heavily as a result. He also found that the Patriots had not gained any advantage, either in this season or in any prior season, as a result of breaking that rule. Those are the facts. If you define that as cheating, there's nothing I can do to stop you. To me, cheating is gaining an advantage from breaking a rule. So, we would disagree.
 
if just one person would get the point I'm sending this would have been a little more low key. This is all bigger than an asterisk. It is about respect. MY POINT is that this needs to stop being a catalyst for the "disrespect" card. I'm just saying, read any article on the Jags site and you will see that our franchise has immense respect for the Pats.
The asterisk was disrespectful. You cannot say it was respectful. And the power ranking guy's column was equally insulting. It was not subtle humor. Look up subtle in the dictionary. This was not even humor. Humor is what makes people laugh. Did you hear any of hte ESPN guys who aired the piece laughing? I didn't. The only people laughing were the JAGs fans. "We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you." Very respectable.

You probably know that JAG is another word for Just Another Guy, an irrelevant player in the NFL. If the Pats ran their website, they would put an asterisk next to Jags and at the bottom say, "A bunch of Just Another Guys." But they won't, because the Patriots show respect for their opponents, unlike the Jaguars. I used to root for the team. I liked them. If I was still a fan, I would be ashamed of them.

you Patsies would still be where you are today
Hypocrit. You say you respect the Pats and insult them in the same paragraph. Call us Patsies if you like, I don't care, but don't do it in the same paragraph in which you are being sanctimonious.

And one last thing, don't try and separate breaking the rules from cheating. You steal answers in school, you're not just stealing answers, you're cheating. You cut corners in a race, you're not just cutting corners, your cheating. The two are inseparable. It doesn't take away from the fact that had SpyGate never occurred, you Patsies would still be where you are today, on the top. It's just the fact is it happened. On top of all this, I hope to see a good, fair, clean game tonight. GO JAGS! :)
You don't get it. Stealing signals is NOT cheating. Everyone tries to steal signals. Linemen try to figure out snap counts and audibles, and guys are always watching the opposing sidelines. That is why offensive coordinators cover their mouths when they tak into a mike. Haven't you seen that?

The Dolphins audio-taped our audibles and beat us 21-0 last year, and the NFL said it was legal.

It is legal to use binoculars on opposing coordinators and write down what they do. It is even legal to video tape them, from the endzone and from a "covered" place.

It is only illegal to videotape them from the sidelines. It is agaisnt the rules.

Trust me, no group has studied the rule and its ramifications more than Pats fans. The only thing that mystifies us is why Goodell hasn't come out and explained it in detail.

Jags will go, alright. They'll go home empty-handed.
 
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Hypocrit. You say you respect the Pats and insult them in the same paragraph. Call us Patsies if you like, I don't care, but don't do it in the same paragraph in which you are being sanctimonious.

Well then Goodell must not get it either because he obviously saw it as a pretty big infraction. And as far as the Patsies comment goes, not sure if you even read what I wrote. I said I am all for getting amped, hyped, blah blah blah. The comment was another shot at sarcastic humor. Be it a bad one or not you obviously can't handle any ounce of humor in your precious game. I'm just trying to lighten up a pretty dreadful thread.
 
BTW, Vrttslvvn, walk a mile in someone else's shoes for a moment.

We have been bombarded for 18 weeks (since the edge of summer) about "cheating" here on this board from people who (mostly) have only a cursory knowledge of what happened during the opening game of the season.

The fans on this board have had to hear this from people (mostly) who don't even know the name of the Commish). They have heard it from clergy, from politicians, from plenty of people who have used the sensationalism of a case of using a camera on a sideline instead of from the stands.

If you are BAFFLED that there is a backlash here against a team's OFFICIAL WEBSITE using the *caught cheating" phrase 17 weeks after the fact, then you have no way of understanding this at all.

I sincerely hope that opens up some understanding for you.
 
And don't get me wrong. I won't go on with this argument forever. I don't expect to come into the Pats MB and win an argument about this scandal. It's just interesting to see how some people handle it.
 
BTW, Vrttslvvn, walk a mile in someone else's shoes for a moment.

We have been bombarded for 18 weeks (since the edge of summer) about "cheating" here on this board from people who (mostly) have only a cursory knowledge of what happened during the opening game of the season.

The fans on this board have had to hear this from people (mostly) who don't even know the name of the Commish). They have heard it from clergy, from politicians, from plenty of people who have used the sensationalism of a case of using a camera on a sideline instead of from the stands.

If you are BAFFLED that there is a backlash here against a team's OFFICIAL WEBSITE using the *caught cheating" phrase 17 weeks after the fact, then you have no way of understanding this at all.

I sincerely hope that opens up some understanding for you.

Not to be rude but Boo Hoo. I didn't start this thread. I just joined in. Thanks for the invitation.
 
Not to be rude but Boo Hoo. I didn't start this thread. I just joined in. Thanks for the invitation.

Not looking for your sympathy, just explaining what is baffling to you.

Just as much as I'm sure you won't be looking for our sympathy on September 7, 2012 when the Los Angeles Jaguars open their new stadium.
 
Stealing signals is NOT cheating...period.

It was ruled that it gave the Patiots no competitive advantage. If you want to be a hater....hate for the right reason....hate us because we dominate!
 
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Stealing signals is NOT cheating...period.

It was ruled that it gave the Patiots no competitive advantage. If you want to be a hater....hate for the right reason....hate us because we dominate!

And that about wraps it up!
 
The comment was another shot at sarcastic humor. Be it a bad one or not you obviously can't handle any ounce of humor in your precious game. I'm just trying to lighten up a pretty dreadful thread.

It became dreadful about 3 pages ago when you tried to defend one of the most disrespectful pieces of crap we Pats fans have yet had to tolerate when the official Jaguars website puts an asterisk next to the Pats unbeaten record and you jump in with...

"It was out of respect. Vic (our senior writer) took it off because the media has turned it into something competitive and degrading.

Yeah, the media did it. Look, we've seen enough of these cowards backtrack from their disrespectful comments all year long when they knew they had stoked the fire too much (see Wade Phillips for starters). So the fact that the Jaguars organization takes down the asterisk and then you jump in here laughing it off as "sarcastic humor" is no surprise to us, we've seen this lame act before. We've also seen how it ends. You won't enjoy it, trust me.
 
Alright alright alright. I don't hate the pats AT ALL for the "scandal." And I certainly don't hate you for dominating... I actually respect you for that. I hate you because your quarterback dates one of the most beautiful women in the world! Seriously though, LA has had its chances. Were a young franchise and time will bring stability. I'm not sure how that cheap shot has anything to do with what were saying. Except that it was a decent escape from a response to your post that obviously had you beat. I DON'T HATE THE PATS I RESPECT THEM! No one wants to hear that because you (at least some good percentage) love the idea of being able to play the disrespect card.
 
Alright 1976 pats fan listen ONE MORE TIME. And then Im through responding to you because you and I are going in circles. HE TOOK IT DOWN OUT OF RESPECT. IM NOT SAYING HE PUT IT UP OUT OF RESPECT. Get that through your thick skull. Im having fun with these debates over here until you pull up and go over the same thing we did 2-3 pages ago. Get it yet?
 
Alright 1976 pats fan listen ONE MORE TIME. And then Im through responding to you because you and I are going in circles. HE TOOK IT DOWN OUT OF RESPECT. IM NOT SAYING HE PUT IT UP OUT OF RESPECT. Get that through your thick skull. Im having fun with these debates over here until you pull up and go over the same thing we did 2-3 pages ago. Get it yet?

Here is ANOTHER example where, perhaps, you should get your story right.

You should read what Ketchman wrote. He (repeatedly) said the "jaguars.com executive committee decided – there was one dissenting vote, of course –" in his article. Who do you think he is intimating the "one dissentling vote" was?

The second time he refers to it: "Retracting our position? No way. Hey, it was up there for four months. There’s no retracting that. The jaguars.com executive committee just decided – there was one dissenting vote, of course".

Doesn't sound like it was HIS idea to make this great show of respect. But hey, here we READ.
 
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