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Article on Clutch QB's.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by scout, Jul 15, 2017.

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  1. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    1. Just read an all-time ranking of the 25 most clutch QB's in NFL history. Disagree with some of the picks. Although, the last paragraph summed up a lot comments regarding Brady detractors.

      "I could go on, but the only people arguing this selection are a half-dozen dudes in faded Elway jerseys and some cranks typing CHEATRIOTS on every comment thread they can find. Brady is historic, legendary in his own time, excellent in every element of football that maters and as close to an inarguable example of the ultimate "clutch quarterback" as we will ever see."
    NFL Nostalgia: Ranking History's Most Clutch Quarterbacks
     
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  2. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member

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    5) Peyton Manning

    End of any hope of credibility for this article written by a fan
     
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  3. Nehalem

    Nehalem 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Not on the list: Aaron Rodgers

    :D
     
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  4. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    Pretty good article/list. I may not agree with the order but I do agree with most of his rational of why they are on the list.

    At least it's a list without "The Great Aaron Rodgers " on it.
     
  5. bormio

    bormio In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't think Otto Graham is on it either - guess he did not need to come back much.
     
  6. bormio

    bormio In the Starting Line-Up

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    But if he had a defense ........
     
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  7. lancerman

    lancerman In the Starting Line-Up

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    Tbf Rogers with all his hail mary's deserves it more than half the guys on the list
     
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  8. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    Good to see Brady at the top. I love how he's pretty much acknowledged as the GOAT now by almost everyone. The last Super Bowl put him over the top.
     
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  9. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Staubach should be #3 or #4. My god.

    Graham? Bradshaw ?

    Disaster of a list
     
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  10. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    It's not a disaster but do agree that Bradshaw should be on the list somewhere. Btw: I don't correlate this list with a Greatest QB list.

    Graham had 10 comebacks and 10 game winning drives credited. I never saw him play so no way for me to know.

    Staubach is tough. His numbers are lower than Bradshaw's but based on my childhood memories I would have ranked him higher.

    This was his criteria for ranking clutch.

    upload_2017-7-15_18-28-43.png
     
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  11. Biffins

    Biffins In the Starting Line-Up

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    Throwing Hail Marys is the opposite of clutch. Just because a bunch of Rodgers' Hail Marys got caught is a statistical anomaly on a small sample size and not representative of greater skill. If Rodgers actually was clutch, he wouldn't have to be in a position to resort to Hail Marys.
     
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  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member

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    The problem with lists like this is that so often - including in this case - the author relies far too heavily on one or two statistical rankings.

    Pro football is the ultimate team sport. As a result individual analysis (and rankings) of a player's performance cannot be accurately ascertained by simple statistical data mining.

    That type of research lends itself very well to a sport such as baseball, which is primarily a one-against-one (pitcher vs batter) game. Football is just the opposite. Figuring in all the starters on offense and defense, plus the key third down players, and it is about 30 vs 30 rather than 1-on-1. Any individual analysis in this scenario is going to be difficult at best, despite what sites such as Pro Football Focus would attempt to have us believe.

    On top of that in this case the only criteria the author is using are 4th quarter game comebacks and game winning drives. Apparently taking a lead into the 4th quarter and holding on to it equates to zero on the clutch-meter. There are also no stats for blown leads or failed comebacks in this equation, or for simply laying an egg in a crucial game.

    Last but not least, the quarterback is given 100% credit for these victories, as if he was simply playing a video game against the computer - with zero effect on the outcome of the game based on any of the quarterback's teammates or opponents. Football is not played in a vacuum, nor is it a sport like boxing, bowling or golf, one individual going head to head against another. It takes a lot more work than looking up two stats to figure out who is good and who is not in NFL history.
     
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  13. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    P. Manning is way too high. Season on the line and the team desperately needing a push to survive, he is one of the most useless "superstars" in sports. I don't care how many game winning drives or comebacks he had in the regular season. Top 3 of Brady, Elway, and Montana is a good list though.
     
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  14. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The ranking criteria is flawed.

    Clutch is not just game winning drives. It's controlling your emotions and winning when the lights are hottest.

    For Peyton to be higher than Staubach is a joke

    I've never seen Graham play either but for him and along with Bradshaw and Starr to be absent de-legitimizes this list thus making it a disaster.
     
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  15. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Going back to the 2014 playoffs, Brady has played in 4 games where 4th quarter scoring was crucial. In every game, Brady led the team down the field for scores. The Ravens, Seahawks, Broncos and Falcons games were all definitions of clutch and a QB willing his team to stay alive and fight. And while they came up just short in the Broncos game that TD drive in the face of intense pressure was one to behold. While Elway had "the drive" what do you call what Brady just did to the Falcons?
     
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  16. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member

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    Regarding Otto Graham:

    It doesn't look as is PFR even tracked all the 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives until about 1960, which would explain his absence (despite the inclusion of Norm Van Brocklin). Even if those could be found, the season was only 12 games long then and the playoffs consisted of just one game. Without any adjustment for different eras, of course somebody like Matt Stafford or Joe Flacco's raw numbers are going to appear to be better than those of Graham or Johnny Unitas.

    Flawed data ... leading to flawed results. Mike Tanier must have just mailed this column in, he's usually more detail oriented than this. Then again this is a column for Bleacher Report rather than Football Outsiders, which may explain a lot.
     
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  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly.

    Winning championships is THE single, most determining stat which defines clutchness and not some random 4th quarter come from behind win in October.

    In whatever order after Brady...

    Starr
    Graham
    Montana
    Elway
    Staubach
    Bradshaw
     
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  18. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    Ok RW, your F'ing with my head. Now I don't even know what clutch means. :D

    Let me ask you this.

    Was Brady's 2014 AFCCG more clutch than his 2016 AFCCG?
     
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  19. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member

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    You can't rank QBs by 4th qtr comebacks unless you also include 4th qtr comeback opportunities. If you play well in the first 3 you aren't behind.
    Going 14-2 with 3 4th quarter comeback (ie 3 of 5 chances) is better than going 8-8 with 5 4th qtr comebacks (5 of 13)
     
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  20. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I'd put Marino and Montana higher.

    #2 for Montana.

    Marino was super clutch late in the 4th quarter. He put more fear in you than most of those guys.

    Elway is known for the drive, etc., but he has a lot of Peyton Manning choke in him. Threw a lot of INTs in crucial moments.

    One guy I would put up there is Steve McNair.

    Also, where is Dan Fouts? He used to work miracles late in the hurry-up. Hate him as an announcer, but he was clutch. Certainly deserves it more than Matthew Stafford for heaven's sake.
     
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