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An enhanced metric for kickers, possibly...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by oldrover, Aug 20, 2019.

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  1. Sicilian

    Sicilian Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Along these lines, I think this kind of metric has a lot of value in other sports as well:

    - The Goalie Distance Average (GDA), is how many millimeters away from a goalie's pad an NHL goal scorer's shot was. That way we know whether it was close to being saved (and therefore the scorer was lucky) or it was a legit goal.

    - The Nothin-But-Net Index (NBNI) - Percentage of scoring shots by NBA players that don't hit the rim. I get tired of holding my breath every time a Celtic player's shot wobbles a bit.

    - I'd make one up for baseball but let's be honest... they already have some MAD ones.
     
  2. slam

    slam In the Starting Line-Up

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    Pro Football Focus on line one with a cease and desist order. Something about gimmick infringement.
     
  3. notex

    notex Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    OK so I keep hearing all this Carli Lloyd stuff. No doubt shes got a leg on her... BUT...

    Given that men (typically) have stronger legs than women... why is this all such a revelation? Watch any club or national team games - men shoot the ball and kick it further. Aren't there thousands of ex-soccer player men that could kick even further than Carli Lloyd?

    I am really not knocking her or saying she doesnt deserve a shot - but it would seem that if you wanted a soccer-style kicker, wouldn't bringing in a male kicker you may get a stronger leg...

    Call me sexist or whatever you want but just stating the facts. Seems like a public relations stunt if anyone actually brings her in.
     
  4. luuked

    luuked Pro Bowl Player

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    Seems pointless to me.

    Once you start trying to measure those little things, you will need to start adding other even more significant variables to the equation like wind strength/direction, elevation (in some stadiums), ground conditions, rain...

    You'd think that more information would be more valuable but in this case you would not get more information at all as the exact placement is affected by so many things other than how good the kicker can anticipate a trajectory, aim and kick.
     
  5. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    In basketball, if the ball swishes or bounces on the rim three times before going in, it counts the exact same. A FG that splits through the uprights counts the EXACT same as a FG that hits off an upright and goes through. This would be a waste of time to put any energy into such a metric.
     
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  6. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    I love love LOVE the USWNT and am a huge fan of women's sports in general. I also have a daughter who plays college basketball. So this isn't coming from some sort of sexist perspective.

    But...

    Is it REALLY that impressive? I mean for most normal people like us, yeah, that's crazy good. But she's one of the world's best female soccer players. I'm not surprised at all that she can kick a football through the uprights from that distance. Note that (a) there was no pressure on her, (2) there was no defense trying to block it, and (3) she took numerous steps as a runup, more like a kickoff than a FG. There are probably 5,000 male soccer players - in college or on pro teams around the world - and hundreds and hundreds of male kickers (HS, college, and some sort of pro football) who could do what she just did.

    It's noteworthy because she's a woman, not because the feat was extraordinary.
     
  7. pheenix11

    pheenix11 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can we not turn football into the metric based snoozefest that baseball has become?
     
  8. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    After my detailed analysis of over 20,000 FGs, the results are in:

    Accuracy looks like a normal distribution curve.

    Huh.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
  9. borg

    borg PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I’ll pay attention when “they” is put in a position to tackle the kick returner.
    Note: Generation Woke has eliminated gender based pronouns.
     
  10. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing that would help is logical thinking.

    A guy who goes 3/4 on field goals and 1/3 on extra points gets you 10 of 15 possible points.

    Contrarily, a guy who goes 2/4 on field goals as 3/3 on extra points gets you 9 of 15 possible points.

    But about 99% of football fans would say that the first player had a worse game (even assuming all kicks were same difficulty level.)

    People get their panties in a bunch over missed extra points and act like Gostkowski “threw away a given point” but don’t seem to care as much about the 3-point results, which are 3X more important.

    Denver Example

    In 2015 AFCCG at Denver, Gostkowski is often blamed for the loss due to a missed extra point. The Patriots trailed 20-12 in the final minutes before scoring and then missing a two point conversion. However, if Gostkowski had made the extra point BUT missed a field goal (he was 2/2), the score would have been 20-10 in the final minutes. Few would have cited a missed FG as a major reason for the loss. In the irrational opinion of fans/media, Gostkowski would have avoided criticism had he missed a FG instead of an XP, despite contributing fewer points to the team. He made 6/7 of possible points, but had he made 4/7, no one would blame him for the loss. Define irrational better than that.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  11. Bruins29

    Bruins29 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great post. The other important thing to remember is that the people who constantly criticize Gost aren't even worth responding to.
     
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  12. Vindicate

    Vindicate Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    can it involve cigarettes?
     
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  13. Batman

    Batman Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Let’s just Male the posts narrower and see who is still good.
     
  14. moosekill

    moosekill 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    i imagine almost any D1 college soccer player has the leg to hit an occasional 55 yard field goal with the same conditions she was given.
     
  15. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ya mean like John Smith?
     
  16. moosekill

    moosekill 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Watching high end women's soccer is like watching men's soccer played underwater. They do everything correctly, it is just at a slower speed and the ball doesn't go as fast or as far. With no one rushing her, and a long run up, she can kick a 55 yard field goal. She can't tackle block or do any of the other stuff though.

    But that does raise a question. If a kicker can kick 45 yard and less field goals and extra points at 100%, but can't ever kick anything longer than 45 yards, how good a kicker are they?
     
  17. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are some offenses that would be all in on the kicker that is 100% on FG's 45 yds and under and xp's.
     
  18. oldrover

    oldrover "You're gonna have to serve somebody..." PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For the record, I am NOT a criticizer of Gost, nor did I start the thread to besmirch him in any way. He is probably the best and most consistent kicker I have ever seen in the NFL. Just wanted to get that out there... in case someone...

    [​IMG]

    ...was organizing a stoning. o_O
     
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  19. mosi

    mosi Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    But give it time. Soon it will be 4 points from 50. 3 points for down the middle within 50, 2 points for wide of center and 1 for a dink in.
     
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  20. Sicilian

    Sicilian Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Honestly, if I were coach, I would prefer this 100 times out of a 100. Yes, it would eliminate the long shot field goals from your arsenal, but your decisions would be made infinitely easier. We're within 45 yards? Great, automatic 3 points. 4th down and it's a 47 yarder? We're going for it or punting, there's no grey area. There's inherent value in information you can count on with 100% certainty.
     
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