Aaron Hernandez VS Jimmy Graham

[RobertWeathers]

Graham is better than Hernandez, but Gronk is far better than either. Gronk is the most complete TE since Shannon Sharpe. He may ultimately be superior to Sharpe based on his career trajectory. He is already clearly a better blocker than Sharpe (who is underrated in this category). Graham is a great receiver, but not complete like Gronk. Neither is Hernandez.

Comparing Graham and Hernandez is a bit unfair though. Hernandez is penalized for having Gronk and Welker on his team. He is competing with arguably the best TE and one of the top WRs. The Saints' WRs while good are not near the top of the WR category and there is no other stud WR. We don't know what Hernandez would do if he was "The Guy" like Graham is with the Saints. Would Graham be nearly as productive as he is here if he was in Hernandez's role? I doubt it. I still think Gronk would be the primary receiver here.

Hernandez is hampered for having two stud TEs on the same team and the guy he is competing with will be a HOFer if he continues like he is. In all honesty, Gronk has the potential to be arguably the greatest TE of all time considering he is on pace to not only break the single season TD record for TEs, but the receiving yard record too (Graham is 30 yards ahead of him in this category). There hasn't been a guy who can do everything like Gronk does who is impossible to cover or bring down like Gronk is.

It's so hard to say who the greatest TE is as the position has evolved and changed it seems every few years. The passing game in the 70s was different than the 60s and the 80s was different than the 90s and so far the 2010s is different than the 2000s. What all that means is the personnel required is different. I can't really comment on guys like John Mackey, Jackie Smith or Dave Casper but I can comment on guys like Todd Christenson, Kellen Winslow, Ozzie Newsome, Ben Coates, etc. (hardly makes me an expert just relatively old).

What is clear to me is that IF Gronk puts up 5 more years like this one (catches, yards, TDs), AND stays on the same level of blocking effectiveness then he will be the GoAT in my eyes. The problem is that it's the in-line blocking that burns these guys out. The key is health for him. He has the whole package.

 

[nabwong]

I think it's important to note (like a few posters here already have) that Hernandez is not really a TE, he is an H-back. By definition, the role has to work in tandem with a fully fledged blocking TE.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Graham has more receptions than Gronk even as part of a more diverse attack, and he is a more fluid runner. Gronk has a longer YPC because of his great YAC, and he's more of a monster to bring down. They've both been excellent this year, and you couldn't go wrong with either one as your choice for best TE in the league. I'd go with Gronk because of his blocking, myself, but either can have a case made for him, IMO.

Gonzalez and Gates, while still good, have clearly slipped. Finley, while a very gifted TE, is in a system which doesn't emphasize him, and he's probably a notch below the top dogs. Guys like Whitten, Miller, Daniels and others are excellent as well, but I'd also put them below the top guys. Moeaki can't stay healthy long enough to really get slotted among the top guys, Pettigrew is good but not at the top of the class. Gresham has been a notch or two what I think was expected of him.

No way Hernandez is a top 5 guy.

Just my $.02.

Graham gets targetted more than Gronk and the Saints throw more than the Pats so it's not surprising he has more yards. I think Gronk is better right now, Graham has room to improve and may very well do so.

I agree that they are both superior to Hernandez.

 

[Rob0729]

Graham gets targetted more than Gronk and the Saints throw more than the Pats so it's not surprising he has more yards. I think Gronk is better right now, Graham has room to improve and may very well do so.

I agree that they are both superior to Hernandez.

According to KFFL.com, Graham has been targetted 131 times this season and Gronk has been targetted 105 times. Graham has caught 66.4% of the balls thrown his way and Gronk has caught 71.4% of the balls thrown his way. That is a significant difference and further proof Gronk is the better TE.

 

[PatsFan2]

I tell you guys this if Aaron Hernandez was Drafted by the Saints he would put the numbers Jimmy Graham has now. BB loves the prototypical TE's which could be justified by the the Picks of Graham and Watson who both Sucked None of them played up to their Draft positions. BB values the position and made a Excellent pick in Gronk. The 2010 Draft produced some very good TE's Jermaine Gresham was the only First Rounder and he is very Good if he was playing with a better QB's his numbers would be Great. Each of the First Four Rounds of the 2010 Draft produced a Super TE.

Round 1 = Jermaine Gresham

Round 2 = Super Gronk

Round 3 = Jimmy Graham

Round 4 = Aaron Hernandez

One thing to note is that Hernandez played Two games less than Gronk because of his injury earlier and he has Seven less catches. Gronk = 75 in 14 games, Hernandez = 68 in 12 games. I noticed that Hernandez gets open as quickly as Welker both are open for a easy 5 yards on every snap their quickness and agility in phenomenal. My point is Hernandez on the Saints would post identical numbers to Graham...both are match-up nighmares for the Defense.

 

[PatsFan2]

According to KFFL.com, Graham has been targetted 131 times this season and Gronk has been targetted 105 times. Graham has caught 66.4% of the balls thrown his way and Gronk has caught 71.4% of the balls thrown his way. That is a significant difference and further proof Gronk is the better TE.

Love Gronk to Death but the Pats Offense is not as skilled as the Saints Offense. Saints Offense has pass catchers all over the place including some awesome Third Down RB's in Sproles and Pierre Thomas look at their numbers. If Graham is targeted 131 times, that speaks volumes about how Drew Brees have confidence him. Hey Gronk has the Edge in inline Blocking. But Jimmy Graham runs like a Deer...how do you defend that? the Kid's a Beast! Gronk is not the clear cut winner it's closer than you think.

 

[RobertWeathers]

According to KFFL.com, Graham has been targetted 131 times this season and Gronk has been targetted 105 times. Graham has caught 66.4% of the balls thrown his way and Gronk has caught 71.4% of the balls thrown his way. That is a significant difference and further proof Gronk is the better TE.

I agree but for the sake of being devil's advocate, a good part of the analysis needs to factor in the type of routes both TEs run. We all know that Gronk can make the tough catch and react to a not-so-perfect ball. To me, tt seems that every time I see Graham make a catch, he seems to be 10-15 yards downfield which can be assumed that he is running longer routes than Gronk. I'm not saying he is, just seems that way.

We can agree that both Brady and Brees are equal in terms of being accurate QBs with Brees having a slightly better year in that particular area (but not much!)

 

[PatsFan2]

I agree but for the sake of being devil's advocate, a good part of the analysis needs to factor in the type of routes both TEs run. We all know that Gronk can make the tough catch and react to a not-so-perfect ball. To me, tt seems that every time I see Graham make a catch, he seems to be 10-15 yards downfield which can be assumed that he is running longer routes than Gronk. I'm not saying he is, just seems that way.

We can agree that both Brady and Brees are equal in terms of being accurate QBs with Brees having a slightly better year in that particular area (but not much!)

Excellent point robertweathers...if we ask Brees who would he prefer he would probably say Graham 9 times out of 10. Brady vise/versa.

 

[ProudestRyno]

1.) I'm not misinformed, unless you're claiming that the numbers, which are easy to get off of NFL.com, are actually incorrect somehow.

2.) Your opinion of my opinion is noted. It doesn't change where I'd slot Hernandez, and that's not in the top 5 of TEs this year, but is likely somewhere in the range of the back end of top 10 through top 15.

That's just goofy. Put him on a team where he isn't competing for looks with Welker and Gronk and he's fed the ball like Graham is, I'm confident he'd have similiar numbers.

I'm curious to see your top TEs list...

And to rank Graham as a better TE than Gronkowski? What? Graham is barely a TE, he's more similar to Graham in that he might as well be a WR. Gronk is easily the best TE in the NFL as far as doing TE assignments which include blocking.

 

[Rob0729]

Love Gronk to Death but the Pats Offense is not as skilled as the Saints Offense. Saints Offense has pass catchers all over the place including some awesome Third Down RB's in Sproles and Pierre Thomas look at their numbers. If Graham is targeted 131 times, that speaks volumes about how Drew Brees have confidence him. Hey Gronk has the Edge in inline Blocking. But Jimmy Graham runs like a Deer...how do you defend that? the Kid's a Beast! Gronk is not the clear cut winner it's closer than you think.

But the Saints do not have a Wes Welker who gets a lionshare of the catches either. It goes both ways. The Saints have a lot of good WRs, but the Pats have a stud WR which the Saints don't. That makes Graham more of a primary target than Gronk is.

Also, Brees has thrown the ball 66 more times than Brady.

Gronk is the clear cut winner because he has made more of his catches (more yards per catch, yards after the catch, and can carry one or two defenders on his back for extra yards), he can block, and most importantly he is arguably the best end zone threat in the league. Graham is definitely the second best TE in the league, but Gronk is definitely better.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree but for the sake of being devil's advocate, a good part of the analysis needs to factor in the type of routes both TEs run. We all know that Gronk can make the tough catch and react to a not-so-perfect ball. To me, tt seems that every time I see Graham make a catch, he seems to be 10-15 yards downfield which can be assumed that he is running longer routes than Gronk. I'm not saying he is, just seems that way.

We can agree that both Brady and Brees are equal in terms of being accurate QBs with Brees having a slightly better year in that particular area (but not much!)

They are two different types of TEs. Graham, like Hernandez, is more in the Tony Gonzalez mold of a WR in a TE body. That is why he runs longer routes.

The thing is. Even with Graham running deeper routes, Gronk has more yards per catch (15.2 vs. 13.5) and more catches for more than 20 yards (19 vs. 17), and more catches for more than 40 yards (3 vs. 2). And the key stat is that Gronk has more TDs (15 vs. 9).

I guess that I don't watch enough Saints game to know how much YAC Graham gets, but that is one of the things that makes Gronk easily the best TE in the game and it really isn't debatable. Gronk does run shorter routes than Graham, but he has more yards per carry and more big plays because they guy is impossible to bring down.

I look at Gronk and he is a match up nightmare that is unique to the NFL. There isn't a receiver harder to bring down after he catches the ball than Gronk. We have seen two and even three guys trying to tackle him at once and see them basically bounce of him.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Also Hernandez is the YOUNGEST player in the whole league. He will improve year on year imo.

He was the youngest player in the NFL last year. This year, he's still younger than all but 14 rookies who played in Week 1.

GRONK is also still among the 50 youngest players in the NFL, too. :rocker:

 

[JackBauer]

it was a euphemism.........but you knew that.....LOL

You know what a euphamism is, right? So what you're saying is that you're actually something worse than a moron? If so, I agree.

 

[IllegalContact]

You know what a euphamism is, right? So what you're saying is that you're actually something worse than a moron? If so, I agree.

I know what a euphemism is, but it sure as **** seems as though you do not.......thank you for accepting the moron position

 

[tobias funke]

There is no way to enjoy a thread without the usual insults. Usually after first page, the thread becomes about two or three people.

It's because many people are not secure in their opinions, and can't handle when other people disagree with them. Rarely does anyone deviate from their original point, and often they will do anything to make it seem like what they said was correct.

At some point, it makes sense to learn how to state your opinion and move on, instead of getting sucked into a useless, circular argument with someone who is never going to change their mind.

 

[Haley]

Hernandez. Because that way I can look at him and think he is the Happy Gilmore of football.

"Why you don't you just go HOME? That's your HOME! Are you too good for your HOME? ANSWER ME!"

Plus now this one works:

"The Price is wrong, b****."

Ahhhhaha, I'm just waiting for him to "shirt-punch" someone.

 

[JackBauer]

I know what a euphemism is, but it sure as **** seems as though you do not.......thank you for accepting the moron position

Let's recap. You tried to be clever with your insult and ended up insulting yourself in the process, as has been pointed out by other posters.

You attempted to shrug this off by stating that it was only a euphemism, which is defined as the substitution of a mild, indirect, or vague expression for one thought to be offensive, harsh, or blunt.

So, again, what you're saying is that you were really intending to insult yourself using a much harsher term or terms.

That's what we call catastrophic trolling failure.

 

[IllegalContact]

Ok......I have to stomp on this uninformed post. Gronkowski is 6'6"/265 and graham Is 6'6"/260, and that 5lbs makes him more like Hernandez? WRONG

next, graham runs shorter routes....he caught a higher percentage of balls thrown less than 10 yard......he has also caught more balls thrown over 20 yards than gronk.....gronk has more intermediate catches.

Now I personally believe that gronk is a better TE, but not for the ignorant reasons you post in your typical homer fashion......

Please.......learn what a FACT is

They are two different types of TEs. Graham, like Hernandez, is more in the Tony Gonzalez mold of a WR in a TE body. That is why he runs longer routes.

The thing is. Even with Graham running deeper routes, Gronk has more yards per catch (15.2 vs. 13.5) and more catches for more than 20 yards (19 vs. 17), and more catches for more than 40 yards (3 vs. 2). And the key stat is that Gronk has more TDs (15 vs. 9).

I guess that I don't watch enough Saints game to know how much YAC Graham gets, but that is one of the things that makes Gronk easily the best TE in the game and it really isn't debatable. Gronk does run shorter routes than Graham, but he has more yards per carry and more big plays because they guy is impossible to bring down.

I look at Gronk and he is a match up nightmare that is unique to the NFL. There isn't a receiver harder to bring down after he catches the ball than Gronk. We have seen two and even three guys trying to tackle him at once and see them basically bounce of him.

 

[IllegalContact]

Let's recap. You tried to be clever with your insult and ended up insulting yourself in the process, as has been pointed out by other posters.

You attempted to shrug this off by stating that it was only a euphemism, which is defined as the substitution of a mild, indirect, or vague expression for one thought to be offensive, harsh, or blunt.

So, again, what you're saying is that you were really intending to insult yourself using a much harsher term or terms.

That's what we call catastrophic trolling failure.

At least I know what a euphemism is

 

[IllegalContact]

You know, you homers remind me of all the north Koreans on tv mourning Kim Jong il....... The contrary is so obvious, but the appearance is all that matters