Aaron Hernandez VS Jimmy Graham

[ausbacker]

it just shows how idiotic you can be to not see yourself as a homer

You don't notice and commit to memory the position people hold in regards to the Patriots strengths and deficiencies in many threads do you?

For instance, a Patriots homer would vote YES to Aaron Hernandez being a better Tight End than Jimmy Graham. Clearly, that point has escaped you in your zest.

 

[IllegalContact]

You don't notice and commit to memory the position people hold in regards to the Patriots strengths and deficiencies in many threads do you?

For instance, a Patriots homer would vote YES to Aaron Hernandez being a better Tight End than Jimmy Graham. Clearly, that point has escaped you in your zest.

talk in circles much? you were last seen arguing that stats clearly prove hernandez to be a top 5 TE

 

[ausbacker]

talk in circles much? you were last seen arguing that stats clearly prove hernandez to be a top 5 TE

Actually, if you had bothered to read anything properly, my position has been Aaron Hernandez can be considered a top 5 Tight End in the NFL thanks to performance, which generally means statistics. Furthermore, nobody arguing Hernandez should not be considered in the discussion for the top 5 Tight Ends in football has been able to provide any solid evidence to explain why that should be the case.

One of us has used factual evidence in an argument leaving other factors open for interpretation, the other has not.

But hey, Dustin Keller > Aaron Hernandez right?

 

[IllegalContact]

Actually, if you had bothered to read anything properly, my position has been Aaron Hernandez can be considered a top 5 Tight End in the NFL thanks to performance, which generally means statistics. Furthermore, nobody arguing Hernandez should not be considered in the discussion for the top 5 Tight Ends in football has been able to provide any solid evidence to explain why that should be the case.

One of us has used factual evidence in an argument leaving other factors open for interpretation, the other has not.

But hey, Dustin Keller > Aaron Hernandez right?

did I say that? nope

I know what your position is and it is flawed........ stats alone are pretty worthless. the only thing you can say is that hernandez is 6th among TE's when it comes to recieving yards........that all your basis can conclude. your argument would say that randy mcmicheal was a better TE than daniel graham.........was he?

 

[ausbacker]

did I say that? nope

I know what your position is and it is flawed........ stats alone are pretty worthless. the only thing you can say is that hernandez is 6th among TE's when it comes to recieving yards........that all your basis can conclude. your argument would say that randy mcmicheal was a better TE than daniel graham.........was he?

This takes the cake for one of the dumbest contributions I've read on Patsfans, and that includes knee-jerk, reactionary gameday thread remarks (myself included). The argument would be confined to 2011, however that appears lost on you given your tendency toward information retention.

Interesting that you purposely omitted all of the other statistics which point to Aaron Hernandez and the idea that he may be considered a top 5 Tight End in 2011 as meritable.

I won't be conversing further with you in this thread past this post.

 

[IllegalContact]

This takes the cake for one of the dumbest contributions I've read on Patsfans, and that includes knee-jerk, reactionary gameday thread remarks (myself included). The argument would be confined to 2011, however that appears lost on you given your tendency toward information retention.

Interesting that you purposely omitted all of the other statistics which point to Aaron Hernandez and the idea that he may be considered a top 5 Tight End in 2011 as meritable.

I won't be conversing further with you in this thread past this post.

I made one point on yards.....I could make all the others.....where does hernandez fall in terms of blocking? 40th? 50th?

so is hernandez a better TE than heath miller? vernon davis? antonio gates?

 

[Betterthanmost]

There is no way to enjoy a thread without the usual insults. Usually after first page, the thread becomes about two or three people.

 

[Nikolai]

There is no way to enjoy a thread without the usual insults. Usually after first page, the thread becomes about two or three people.

Eh, usually, a topic is set and a battleground laid out for the regulars to come in and rehash old animosities.

True discussion of the matter? Not important. Scoring points through insult and semantics? That's another story.

Then again, I realize the irony of my post given that I was unabashed in my recognition that I went homerific on my poll choice. Oh well, I come here for fun. If I want strife, I'll go to work.

Speaking of...

 

[Sparetire]

I like AH alot, but from an objective point of view i'll go with graham hands down. at the moment he is far better than AH. but AH is one of the best TE's in the game so i cant say im not happy with having 2 of the best TE's on my team.

 

[folamzz]

Actually, if you had bothered to read anything properly, my position has been Aaron Hernandez can be considered a top 5 Tight End in the NFL thanks to performance, which generally means statistics. Furthermore, nobody arguing Hernandez should not be considered in the discussion for the top 5 Tight Ends in football has been able to provide any solid evidence to explain why that should be the case.

One of us has used factual evidence in an argument leaving other factors open for interpretation, the other has not.

But hey, Dustin Keller > Aaron Hernandez right?

Why can't Keller be better than hernandez? I think Keller is more talented. He's bigger than hernandez and just as fast. keller would be very productive in the pats system with brady throwing to him. The pats clearly like to throw over the middle, which is why welker and the TEs have good numbers. Hernandez would be less productive on the jets because sanchez sucks and they run the ball a lot.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Amazing how Hernandez has top 5 TE stats with missing two games and Gronk on the team.

If he was on any other team, he could have crazy #s who knows, even with a bad QB. (Picture him as a security blanket for young qbs, dump it 5 yards up field he'll take it 20)

I'd still take Graham, but it'd be interesting to see hernandez #s on another team.


TEs IMO:

1. Gronk
2. Jason Witten
3. Jimmy Graham
4. Vernon Davis (think he'd be a stud with a Brady/Brees)
5. Hernandez

left off: Gonzalez, Gates. Gates has really fallen off this year, and Gonzo is 35, off course I'd take a 13 years younger than him.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...Category=TIGHT_END&season=2011&seasonType=REG

For people that don't even think he's top 10, look at that list and name 10 better.

 

[Sivy]

Depends, is he related to Billy Graham?

 

[Shed83]

Its hard to quantify!

If i were a GM of 31 other teams and had to choose one TE then it would be Graham, no question.

If i was Belichick and i had the option of picking Graham or Hernandez then im not 100% sure. I know for a fact that Gronkowski and Hernandez work fantastically in tandem. I cant be sure Gronkowski and Graham would work well in harmony, i think they would but i cant be sure.

Hernandez has had great production this year despite missing 2 games and seemingly being less than 100% in the following 2 or so games after returning.

Also Hernandez is the YOUNGEST player in the whole league. He will improve year on year imo.

yeah Graham is better than Hernandez but im delighted Aaron is on our roster!!

 

[stcjones]

Based on their body of work to this point....you have to give it to Graham. However, I think hernandez is coming into "the zone" right now and in the long run he could be the more productive player. Two very talented guys....but two different players. Hern is more TE/WR hybrid......Graham ...awesome TE.

 

[Wretch]

gronk
graham
witten
vernon davis
antonio gates
fred davis

just for starters..........hernandez would not cut it as a primary TE on most teams......he'd be another dustin keller

Really? I can see your argument for the others but Fred Davis? If Cooley wasn't hurt he would barely see the field.

 

[ausbacker]

Why can't Keller be better than hernandez? I think Keller is more talented. He's bigger than hernandez and just as fast. keller would be very productive in the pats system with brady throwing to him. The pats clearly like to throw over the middle, which is why welker and the TEs have good numbers. Hernandez would be less productive on the jets because sanchez sucks and they run the ball a lot.

If you work on the basis of statistics alone there's been minimal to no improvement in Keller's game between Brett Favre or Mark Sanchez passing him the ball. Naturally there is more to an argument, but that's a simplistic, comparable measure.

I'm not arguing that Keller doesn't have potential for improvement, I am merely rating the Tight Ends on current performance (i.e. 2011). If Alex Smith had been given one system to learn and incorporate, who's to know what sort of QB he could have been.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

we already have the best TE in football. not sure why this poll matters.

 

[Rob0729]

Graham is better than Hernandez, but Gronk is far better than either. Gronk is the most complete TE since Shannon Sharpe. He may ultimately be superior to Sharpe based on his career trajectory. He is already clearly a better blocker than Sharpe (who is underrated in this category). Graham is a great receiver, but not complete like Gronk. Neither is Hernandez.

Comparing Graham and Hernandez is a bit unfair though. Hernandez is penalized for having Gronk and Welker on his team. He is competing with arguably the best TE and one of the top WRs. The Saints' WRs while good are not near the top of the WR category and there is no other stud WR. We don't know what Hernandez would do if he was "The Guy" like Graham is with the Saints. Would Graham be nearly as productive as he is here if he was in Hernandez's role? I doubt it. I still think Gronk would be the primary receiver here.

Hernandez is hampered for having two stud TEs on the same team and the guy he is competing with will be a HOFer if he continues like he is. In all honesty, Gronk has the potential to be arguably the greatest TE of all time considering he is on pace to not only break the single season TD record for TEs, but the receiving yard record too (Graham is 30 yards ahead of him in this category). There hasn't been a guy who can do everything like Gronk does who is impossible to cover or bring down like Gronk is.

 

[ivanvamp]

I like Hernandez, but I'd take Graham over him, all other things being equal. Top TE in football, in my view:

1. Gronkowski
2. Graham
3. Witten
4. Davis
5. Gates
6. Hernandez

Not a bad thing to have two of the top 6 (or, at a minimum, top 10) TE in football. They are a huge reason why the Patriots' offense is so difficult to defend.

 

[Rob0729]

Why can't Keller be better than hernandez? I think Keller is more talented. He's bigger than hernandez and just as fast. keller would be very productive in the pats system with brady throwing to him. The pats clearly like to throw over the middle, which is why welker and the TEs have good numbers. Hernandez would be less productive on the jets because sanchez sucks and they run the ball a lot.

Keller is way too inconsistent. He is Sanchez's favorite target and runs routes that Sanchez can throw too. I question his mental ability and focus.

Hey, he could turn into a Pro Bowler in another system, but he has always been way too streaky for my taste. He was like that when Favre threw him the ball his rookie season too. It wasn't just Sanchez throwing to him although one season, particularly a rookie season, isn't a huge sample size.