A single "idle thought"

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patfanken

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I read today that Javeon Clowney is still unsigned with the season just only a week or so away. All the talk is that he'd rather sit out the season than play for $15MM or less.

So here's the thing. The Pats have 3 needs on defense. First and foremost is a force off the edge on the DL. Second would be to add a big run stopper, and third LB help, though I think that is less important since the depth and flexibility and quality of the secondary, means (to me at least) we will see just 2 LB's on the field most of the time.

So why not make a big push for Clowney and his people. For him, he'd be coming to a situation where he can compete for a title. But more importantly, he'd be coming to a situation where its been proven to be a great launching point for FA's. Guys who come here and play well get PAID! I'm not sure he could do better than that on a one year deal anywhere else. Though I'd love to sign him to about a $12MM deal, The more I think on it, the more I'd be willing to go to $15MM, or better yet $10 guaranteed and 6MM in makeable incentives if he plays to his capabilities.

What do you think?
 

Bradybranch

Practice Squad Player
IMO we need more help at MLB than edge. I know we have Bentley, but I see us running more 2-4 nickel with Wino and Simon on the edge as OLB, maybe Wise and Rivers rotating in too. So the other MLB besides Bentley could be Copeland, but would be nice to add another guy to the mix.

Also we drafted Jennings and Uche, so there's lot of depth at Edge/OLB/De. MLB is where it is thin.
 

TheRainMaker

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Clowney is way overrated and not even close to being worth $15M per year. The idiot turned down a one year $18M contract and one slightly below that from another team. The guy disappears more than David Copperfield. If BB didn't want to pay Trey Flowers, why would he pay this injury prone/inconsistent guy? And keep in mind he wasn't even that great in Houston when he had JJ Watt across from him AND Whitney Mercilus! Seattle was disappointed with him last year as his only memorable game was against SF.

And the longer he pulls this crap, the lower his value gets. I wouldn't pay a guy who skipped camp and who's already injury prone.

Everson Griffen was the real value pick up and way better than the "Invisible Man" Clowney. $6M was a steal.
 
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borg

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“he'd be coming to a situation where he can compete for a title.”

Seriously?

Less accurate passer who doesn’t know system
Same anemic weapons
Roster littered with inexperience
Defensive stalwarts taking the year off
Brutal schedule
Two vastly superior AFC teams + Tennessee

Ken, you must be taking all the 20-1 Pats SB action you can get
 

betterthanthealternative

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The downside is that he'd be taking snaps from younger guys who we need to develop and be around (cheaply) for a few years.
Torn on this one. Don't want to go near his asking price, though.
 

Pape

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
whats he going to bring to the table for 15 million dollars?

Hasn't been here learning the defense during camp, so he doesn't know the defense...
Think hes going to ring up nine, ten or twelve sacks?
Think hes going to make 16 games? Has only once in his career
Would be make that much of a difference that we would actually be in contention for a title?
and has he really been so impressive in his 5 years in the NFL you would actually pay the man that kind of money?

I would rather not pay him and be able to roll over the cash to next year when cap space will be very important due to the very good probability of the cap number going down...
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I've laid out a case before and would feel a lot better with him causing chaos in front of this secondary.

He's the perfect hybrid for a multiple, ever-changing front. We can work him anywhere. Edge, inside, if there's a weakness on the OL he has what it takes to take advantage of that.

Recently Bill has been putting HT head over the A-gap in certain looks. He's a rare breed that can take on a C/G & Clowney is a much more advanced rusher all-around. Not to mention outside. Great inside rusher if you over-set.

Bill loves manipulating pressure and again JC has been very good in all areas there.

He's been a great run defender. Displayed the ability to read a play and make smart, quick decisions in a half second.

Recognizing who's trying to block, what type of block & immediately knows what concept is thrown at him.

I'm not throwing a long-term deal at him but defense is funny. It doesn't automatically translate from year to year. He could be that piece we need to make a difference in that regard.
 

DarrylS

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Not a bad idea. Give it a try.

Interesting features on the new forum design.. great job Ian.
 
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Hyped

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I wouldn't mind some Clowney....with our cap space...as long as we can get thru the season with whatever is left over AND remain comfortably under the 2021 cap....sign me up.

The system to system learning curve for a veteran D-Lineman is relatively low compared to other positions and he played for BoB/Crennel in Houston...so there's some cross over knowledge.

BB would only offer him exactly what BB thinks he is worth. So, if BB is in, I am too!
 

sportnik

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The Pats have no use for Clowney. A DE in the NE system needs to set the edge like an MFR. See Ninckovich and Simon. Clowney is constantly rushing upfield and leaving big gaps in the Defense for the offense to exploit. BB wouldn’t take Clowney on Cam’s deal.
 

cscirpoli

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
“he'd be coming to a situation where he can compete for a title.”

Seriously?

Less accurate passer who doesn’t know system
Same anemic weapons
Roster littered with inexperience
Defensive stalwarts taking the year off
Brutal schedule
Two vastly superior AFC teams + Tennessee

Ken, you must be taking all the 20-1 Pats SB action you can get

Brady was checked out last year. The guy gave up on a lot of players that were rookies and overall missed more opportunities than usual. He was gone mentally for a lot of games where he usually can overcome his mistakes
 

patfanken

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“he'd be coming to a situation where he can compete for a title.”

Seriously?

Less accurate passer who doesn’t know system
Same anemic weapons
Roster littered with inexperience
Defensive stalwarts taking the year off
Brutal schedule
Two vastly superior AFC teams + Tennessee

Ken, you must be taking all the 20-1 Pats SB action you can get
The Pats have been to 9 superbowls and won 6 of them, ALL with what many people thought were "anemic" weapons. I think they will have a good OL, good RB's, a dynamic QB (when healthy) and receiver who are solid professionals.

Just remember the Bucs have had "dynamic" WR's on their roster (plus a few very good TE's for the last half decade and never got to the playoffs, and the list of teams with all world WR's and no Superbowls is a long one.....a VERY long one.

And BTW- losing Hightower was a big loss when he opted out. But that was all. Quite frankly I think our S group is better this year, so losing Chung wasn't as bad as it looked. But the schedule is brutal as you noted, but who knows how teams will perform in this new reality. The best coaches will certainly have a bigger advantage this year.
 

Scotty

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I cant argue in detail but I think we need another run stuffer given the problems we had with the Titans at the end of last season. I would think our opponents this year will go straight for that type of attack again ...have we really improved that area..dont know !
 

zimmy

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I don't particularly see the need for Clowney. I think we have quite a few pass rushers who can get pressure on the QB. If we are going to spend $10m+ on a player I would prefer an upgrade at WR/TE. If we need help on D, it's either with another big run stuffer or another middle linebacker - both should likely be cheaper depth pieces.
 

luuked

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I read today that Javeon Clowney is still unsigned with the season just only a week or so away. All the talk is that he'd rather sit out the season than play for $15MM or less.

So here's the thing. The Pats have 3 needs on defense. First and foremost is a force off the edge on the DL. Second would be to add a big run stopper, and third LB help, though I think that is less important since the depth and flexibility and quality of the secondary, means (to me at least) we will see just 2 LB's on the field most of the time.

So why not make a big push for Clowney and his people. For him, he'd be coming to a situation where he can compete for a title. But more importantly, he'd be coming to a situation where its been proven to be a great launching point for FA's. Guys who come here and play well get PAID! I'm not sure he could do better than that on a one year deal anywhere else. Though I'd love to sign him to about a $12MM deal, The more I think on it, the more I'd be willing to go to $15MM, or better yet $10 guaranteed and 6MM in makeable incentives if he plays to his capabilities.

What do you think?

The argument from beat guys and Lombardi in particular is that the things Clowney excels at are not necessarily a scheme fit in a BB defense and -- maybe more importantly -- that you will get one good day of practice a week out of him. Both things that could be glossed over if he was available at a deep discount like Cam but make it unlikely at the sums you are thinking of.

I'd much rather use some resources to shore up the interior on defense.
 
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