A Note to Bob Kraft

[Kontradiction]

If you have to ask that question you will never understand...

I understand perfectly. The question was rhetorical in nature. They didn’t sign him for the hell of it. They signed him because they desperately needed help there. The next question would be why did they desperately need help there?

 

[primetime]

What makes an owner 'great' other than staying the hell out of the way?

 

[203Pat]

So we continue to have absolutely no argument for why he is a "great" owner. Not only that, but instead keeping it a good faith discussion here come weird accusations that he is being denigrated. Seriously, if it is all so obvious then please spell it out for me.

If you ask someone why Brady is the GOAT QB you will get immediately many good reasons. Same for BB as coach.

I ask again.. what in the recent past makes Kraft a great owner ? I mean if he hasn't done anything that distinguishes him from his peers in over one and a half decade then I don't see why he should be elevated over other owners.

Again please spell it out for me. I am not trolling or trying to downplay his accomplishments but I just can't think of any recent ones.

He built a stadium without using tax payer money. He doesn’t meddle in football operations ala Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, and Mike Brown. He basically kept the team from moving to St. Louis. He’s been instrumental in the CBA negotiations and seems to be respected amongst the other owners.

 

[Kontradiction]

What makes an owner 'great' other than staying the hell out of the way?

And even then, that’s not “great.” The ability to delegate is just sound business sense.

 

[Kontradiction]

He built a stadium without using tax payer money. He doesn’t meddle in football operations ala Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, and Mike Brown. He basically kept the team from moving to St. Louis. He’s been instrumental in the CBA negotiations and seems to be respected amongst the other owners.

How generous of him to foot the cost of building a new stadium all on his own while keeping tickets as reasonably priced for the average fan as they are.

 

[203Pat]

How generous of him to foot the cost of building a new stadium all on his own while keeping tickets as reasonably priced for the average fan as they are.

So he should’ve used tax payer money and charged an arm and a leg for tickets?

 

[Kontradiction]

So he should’ve used tax payer money and charged an arm and a leg for tickets?

You are aware that costs for building the new stadium very likely were (and probably still are... well after break even) built into ticket prices, right? You really think that a billionaire business man, and an excellent business man at that, built a multi-million dollar stadium out of the kindness of his heart? Of course not. And he could get away with it because a winning team in the Boston area is going to make a killing regardless.

 

[203Pat]

You are aware that costs for building the new stadium very likely were (and probably still are... well after break even) built into ticket prices, right? You really think that a billionaire business man, and an excellent business man at that, built a multi-million dollar stadium out of the kindness of his heart? Of course not. And he could get away with it because a winning team in the Boston area is going to make a killing regardless.

You do realize almost all teams, especially really good teams, charge in the same ballpark for tickets as the Patriots do? Those other teams that are charging roughly the same ticket price also hit up the taxpayer to pay for the stadium.

 

[Kontradiction]

You do realize almost all teams, especially really good teams, charge in the same ballpark for tickets as the Patriots do? Those other teams that are charging roughly the same ticket price also hit up the taxpayer to pay for the stadium.

The Patriots have the most expensive ticket in the NFL and it’s been like that. You’re moving the goal posts a bit now. You (and others so as not to single you out) just went from praising him for footing the bill to now praising him for laying out the cash up front then recouping his investment. The bottom line is that it’s silly to give him credit for building the stadium. The ticket prices are high enough to where he likely surpassed break even a long time ago. And they’re still the highest priced tickets in the league. I’m not ****ting on him at all. Again, that’s just good business sense. But I’m not going out of my way to praise him for it and use that as a reason for why he’s supposedly better than half the other owners around the league. In the end, the fans are still footing the bill in some form or fashion. He just did it in a way that the majority of the population didn’t notice and reaped the benefit of goodwill over it. That’s just one example of why he’s an excellent businessman.

 

[Nehalem]

You do realize almost all teams, especially really good teams, charge in the same ballpark for tickets as the Patriots do? Those other teams that are charging roughly the same ticket price also hit up the taxpayer to pay for the stadium.

It opened 17 years ago at a cost of $325m($453m in 2018 $$$). For comparison the Cowboys stadium cost $1.15B. Its entirely likely Jerry Jones paid more for the Cowboys Stadium than Kraft did for Gillette

 

[203Pat]

The Patriots have the most expensive ticket in the NFL and it’s been like that. You’re moving the goal posts a bit now. You (and others so as not to single you out) just went from praising him for footing the bill to now praising him for laying out the cash up front then recouping his investment. The bottom line is that it’s silly to give him credit for building the stadium. The ticket prices are high enough to where he likely surpassed break even a long time ago. And they’re still the highest priced tickets in the league. I’m not ****ting on him at all. Again, that’s just good business sense. But I’m not going out of my way to praise him for it and use that as a reason for why he’s supposedly better than half the other owners around the league. In the end, the fans are still footing the bill in some form or fashion. He just did it in a way that the majority of the population didn’t notice and reaped the benefit of goodwill over it. That’s just one example of why he’s an excellent businessman.

Well I’m sure if you live in the area and couldn’t care less about football you’re happy not to pay for a stadium that you won’t be seeing any games at.

 

[203Pat]

It opened 17 years ago at a cost of $325m($453m in 2018 $$$). For comparison the Cowboys stadium cost $1.15B. Its entirely likely Jerry Jones paid more for the Cowboys Stadium than Kraft did for Gillette

The NFL was somewhat different in 2002 compared to now. Between inflation and the ridiculously advanced stadiums it’s not even a contest on who paid what.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well I’m sure if you live in the area and couldn’t care less about football you’re happy not to pay for a stadium that you won’t be seeing any games at.

I’m not going to disagree with that. We at least agree there. But that’s different than the inference that Kraft footed the bill. He leveraged the Patriots’ success to recoup his investment. More owners should do that if they have a competitive squad and need a new stadium. Look at how much goodwill it bought Kraft.

 

[AQPE]

I doubt there could ever have been a business case for Kraft to have spent more than he did building Gillette Stadium in Foxboro. As it is he made the best of it by building Patriot Place. This is certainly something we fans can appreciate that he did, especially considering how difficult it was to even build a new arena in Boston

 

[TB_Helmet]

I’m not going to disagree with that. We at least agree there. But that’s different than the inference that Kraft footed the bill. He leveraged the Patriots’ success to recoup his investment. More owners should do that if they have a competitive squad and need a new stadium. Look at how much goodwill it bought Kraft.

I think Kraft deserves a TON of credit for building the stadium with his own money and that alone makes him a great owner (and maybe is the most important thing an owner can do other than not interfering with on the field operations).

Patriots tickets aren't THAT much higher than the rest of the league even if they're among the highest:

Average NFL ticket price 2018 | Statista

It's 8 games a year (plus pre and postseason), it's not a huge deal and that's not how Kraft is recouping his investment.

The sports business model is generally ****ed in cities having to pay for stadiums. The Raiders wanted Oakland to build a 1.5 billion dollar stadium. Do you know what city has a lot of problems with schools and crime and can't afford 1.5 billion dollars to build a stadium? Oakland. And then the Raiders left because of it. Say what you want about Raiders fans, and I do all the time, but that SUCKS.

So anyway, any owner that builds his own stadium instead of fleecing the public is a good owner in my book. Even if he gets all of his money back, it's still hundreds of millions of dollars more that taxpayers don't have to subsidize billionaires.

 

[Calhoun44]

I appreciate that Robert Kraft has a good sense of hiring coaches. Even though Pete Carrol didn't work out here, it is obvious that Kraft saw the potential in him and gave him a chance. Pete wasn't quite ready back then. It gives me hope that the next coach picked will be chosen using a similar process/criteria.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I think Kraft deserves a TON of credit for building the stadium with his own money and that alone makes him a great owner (and maybe is the most important thing an owner can do other than not interfering with on the field operations).

Patriots tickets aren't THAT much higher than the rest of the league even if they're among the highest:

Average NFL ticket price 2018 | Statista

It's 8 games a year (plus pre and postseason), it's not a huge deal and that's not how Kraft is recouping his investment.

The sports business model is generally ****ed in cities having to pay for stadiums. The Raiders wanted Oakland to build a 1.5 billion dollar stadium. Do you know what city has a lot of problems with schools and crime and can't afford 1.5 billion dollars to build a stadium? Oakland. And then the Raiders left because of it. Say what you want about Raiders fans, and I do all the time, but that SUCKS.

So anyway, any owner that builds his own stadium instead of fleecing the public is a good owner in my book. Even if he gets all of his money back, it's still hundreds of millions of dollars more that taxpayers don't have to subsidize billionaires.

Also, because it was privately-built it is on the tax rolls, meaning Foxborough gets a zillion dollars in real estate tax each year. Which they would not be getting if they or the state built it.

"But", you might say, "they would be getting rent from the team." Don't count on it. Most of these taxpayer funded stadiums have the teams use it rent-free or for way way under market rates.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

Robert Kraft was a good move for the Pats. And his choice of BB as head coach was a better move. Kraft has a genuine love for New England and for the Pats. He certainly is no saint, however, and has warts, as do we all.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think Kraft deserves a TON of credit for building the stadium with his own money and that alone makes him a great owner (and maybe is the most important thing an owner can do other than not interfering with on the field operations).

Patriots tickets aren't THAT much higher than the rest of the league even if they're among the highest:

Average NFL ticket price 2018 | Statista

It's 8 games a year (plus pre and postseason), it's not a huge deal and that's not how Kraft is recouping his investment.

The sports business model is generally ****ed in cities having to pay for stadiums. The Raiders wanted Oakland to build a 1.5 billion dollar stadium. Do you know what city has a lot of problems with schools and crime and can't afford 1.5 billion dollars to build a stadium? Oakland. And then the Raiders left because of it. Say what you want about Raiders fans, and I do all the time, but that SUCKS.

So anyway, any owner that builds his own stadium instead of fleecing the public is a good owner in my book. Even if he gets all of his money back, it's still hundreds of millions of dollars more that taxpayers don't have to subsidize billionaires.

Wait, you really think that Kraft didn’t build in the costs for the stadium into ticket prices? How else did you think he recouped his investment then? I’m assuming you don’t really believe he footed the bill out of kindness. You seem to be a smart guy and the end of your post seems to agree that he got his investment back and then some.

And those averages don’t jive with an article from earlier this year: Pats games are NFL's most expensive tickets

Furthermore, average ticket prices more the doubled between 2001 and 2002 and then increased again between 2002 and 2003. That’s not just winning a title and that’s not just increased demand. But if you have another idea for how Kraft recouped the investment, I’m all ears.

 

[mgteich]

I guess that Kraft should have gone the way of so many owners. Like CHI, he should have gotten the taxpayers to contribute to stadium costs, directly and through tax breaks. Then we could pay through our taxes AND through ticket costs.

I guess that Kraft should cut ticket prices by a third because he can afford it, or perhaps because there is no demand for tickets?