4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here [merged 10x]

[slash83]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If the call works everybodys calling the man a genius, but obviously it didnt so it was the "wrong call" in most peoples eyes. Bottom line is BB figured the Pats offense had a better chance of winning the came by converting on a 4th and 2, rather than relying on the defense that they hold the Colts from scoring a TD. With the way the defense started to play and the Colts offense clicking I to would of taken the chances with the offense converting on a 4th and 2. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

 

[NickOGS20]

Re: Defending Belichick...

I've very much come round to the view that in isolation, the decision to go for it was perfectly understandable and acceptable, but it was just executed in a disappointingly muddled way (not running it on 3rd down, not forcing them to burn their last TO, not saving our last TO, not running it on 4th down, going with a pass play that left zero margin for error).

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If the call works everybodys calling the man a genius, but obviously it didnt so it was the "wrong call" in most peoples eyes. Bottom line is BB figured the Pats offense had a better chance of winning the came by converting on a 4th and 2, rather than relying on the defense that they hold the Colts from scoring a TD. With the way the defense started to play and the Colts offense clicking I to would of taken the chances with the offense converting on a 4th and 2. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

If it did work, BB would be the toast of the town.. but it didn't... now the pundits can pile on.

 

[PittPatriot]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If the call works everybodys calling the man a genius, but obviously it didnt so it was the "wrong call" in most peoples eyes. Bottom line is BB figured the Pats offense had a better chance of winning the came by converting on a 4th and 2, rather than relying on the defense that they hold the Colts from scoring a TD. With the way the defense started to play and the Colts offense clicking I to would of taken the chances with the offense converting on a 4th and 2. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

I don't think anyone would say going for it on 4th and 2 in that situation is ingenius. It is just confidence in your offense to get the job done.
Personally, I don't know much about anything, but it made no sense to me. You have a 6 point lead and a punter who could have easily put the other team at their 25 or 30 yd line. Our ST had been playing well all game...even Slater was gunning like Izzo out there. Manning is amazing and at this moment, the greatest QB I have ever seen, but I trust our D to give him a difficult 70 yards to make up.

 

[HarkDawg]

Re: Defending Belichick...

I really hate math.... No equation is going to undue this CHOKE....


Wait i got it!!!

if we some how figure out the equation for time travel we can go back in time and get BB the right information and tell him where to run his play
b/c he messed up the first time.


OMFG I do not care what the NY times has to say.

 

[HarkDawg]

Re: Defending Belichick...

wait a second



I think I got something....


nope.... false alarm

 

[PittPatriot]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

If that's the case then he was conceeding the TD to Indy when he went for it on 4th......... He still f'd up then by telling his defense to play defense at all then. They shoulda sat down let them score on the first play and left Brady with 2:00 about and just needing a field goal.

Perfect point...very unorthodox game planning, but that kind of thinking out of the box (like taking a safety but winning on the final drive in Denver a few years back) is what I call "genius." Not all the other crap that people love throwing that word around for. If going for it on 4th down is "ingenius" then Favre taking chances that backfire late in the game should also be called as such.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Defending Belichick...

We got the first the ref just blew the spot.

 

[RussFrancis]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

That's fine. Sometimes Brady gets 2 yards on a sneak. Run it on 3rd down, and at the very least, make *Indy* use a time-out there. It allows you to still talk the 4th down play over, on their dime, so to speak, and it reserves you a time-out just in case, oh, you know, you might need it to challenge a spot or a turnover or something.

I think Brady probably picks up one yard, the Colts call a time-out, and the Pats have 4th and 1 with about 2:03 left on the clock, with 1 time-out still available. Changes the situation somewhat dramatically, b/c 4th and 1 is a running down, so it keeps more options in play for the Colts' defense to worry about, but with this offense, 4th and 2 is definitely a passing down.

The Pats botched this on 3rd down, not on 4th down (when they actually converted, of course, despite what the ref, who couldn't actually see the play, said).

exactly right.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If the call works everybodys calling the man a genius, but obviously it didnt so it was the "wrong call" in most peoples eyes. Bottom line is BB figured the Pats offense had a better chance of winning the came by converting on a 4th and 2, rather than relying on the defense that they hold the Colts from scoring a TD. With the way the defense started to play and the Colts offense clicking I to would of taken the chances with the offense converting on a 4th and 2. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

I disagree. If it works, I would have said it was a stupid call, but thank God it worked. I can say that, because I was saying it was a dumb call as soon as it was made. Let Manning go 70 or 80 yards to try to score the winner. Don't let him only have to go 29 plus yards. CRAZY!

For those that are going to say, he had just gone 80 yards on the previous series, let him do it again. That previous one would not have even happened were it not for the highly questionable interference call. That one call may end up determining home field in the playoffs, and that is sad.

 

[JoeShmoe]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The Pats botched this on 3rd down, not on 4th down (when they actually converted, of course, despite what the ref, who couldn't actually see the play, said).

:agree:

If we had a RB BB had confidence in we could go back to pounding the middle. If we have Taylor or Morris in there we win that game right there

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If the call works everybodys calling the man a genius, but obviously it didnt so it was the "wrong call" in most peoples eyes. Bottom line is BB figured the Pats offense had a better chance of winning the came by converting on a 4th and 2, rather than relying on the defense that they hold the Colts from scoring a TD. With the way the defense started to play and the Colts offense clicking I to would of taken the chances with the offense converting on a 4th and 2. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

I would have criticized the call whether it was successful or not. Don't put words in my mouth. I would have been psyched if it works, but I knew it was a very bad call when he made it... I was in total disbelief. The entire management of the game on that last, failed drive was just aweful, from the wasted time outs, to running the ball up the gut with a stacked box.

Although it's not the playoffs, BB blundered in a very important game. We will not have home field advantage in the AFCCG unless someone else takes out the Colts, which is highly unlikely. Heck, we might not even get a bye. Another unpleasant affect is the likelyhood of a Colt perfect season now. This was an epic blunder.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Defending Belichick...

We got the first the ref just blew the spot.

Sure, the spot was a bad one... and the refs knew it. I'm pretty sure the guy who spotted checked to see if we were within two minutes, then decided to make the spot. Were that play able to be reviewed, you can bet it would have been a much more accurate spot.

Regardless, it was a terrible, terrible coaching decision at a critical time.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: Defending Belichick...

For the love of humanity, this is suppose to be the smartest coach in history... You just dont do it ... The refs did not cost us this game, it was Belichick and the call.. You have a defense , let them try to win the game for you..

 

[NEPatriot]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If the call works everybodys calling the man a genius, but obviously it didnt so it was the "wrong call" in most peoples eyes. Bottom line is BB figured the Pats offense had a better chance of winning the came by converting on a 4th and 2, rather than relying on the defense that they hold the Colts from scoring a TD. With the way the defense started to play and the Colts offense clicking I to would of taken the chances with the offense converting on a 4th and 2. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.

I'm sorry, I just don't get the call nor did I when he made it. There's a reason that 99.99% of coaches punt in that situation. I really wonder what the players are thinking.

 

[stcjones]

Re: Defending Belichick...

From a NYT story...

Defending Belichick’s Fourth-Down Decision - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

I guess he figured "either way we're screwed" because he knew the D was gassed and was unable to stop them from scoring in 4th quarter.......might as well go for it.....to me it is still one of the dumbest decisions I remember BB making.....

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Defending Belichick...

For the love of humanity, this is suppose to be the smartest coach in history... You just dont do it ... The refs did not cost us this game, it was Belichick and the call.. You have a defense , let them try to win the game for you..

You did watch our defense on Indy's last 2 drives right? There were scoring 7 if they got the ball back on our 28 or theirs................ without question. I got no real beef with BB's 4th down call......... I did however not like his 3rd down call. Run the effing ball please

Plus, once you conceede the points, tell your D not to tackle the Addai on the 1. Had they scored there, Brady would have had about 1:20 to get 40 yds and into FG range, instead of 9.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: Defending Belichick...

I've very much come round to the view that in isolation, the decision to go for it was perfectly understandable and acceptable, but it was just executed in a disappointingly muddled way (not running it on 3rd down, not forcing them to burn their last TO, not saving our last TO, not running it on 4th down, going with a pass play that left zero margin for error).

I thought the play-calling throughout the 4th quarter wasn't very good. But I agree, the decision to go for it was fine. It was the actual play call that annoyed me.

I'm not sure if I would have run the ball or not, considering how the Colts were shutting down the run. But I HATED the empty backfield. At least leave Faulk back there for a second to make the defense think about the possibility of a run. And really, a 2-yard throw? If you're going to put the ball in the air, why not throw it past the sticks?

Still, I supported the decision because I knew Manning was scoring, even if we downed it at the 1. The numbers support that, but we're also talking about a HOFer in his prime with a timeout and a 2-minute stoppage at home with the game on the line. I felt more nervous about punting than when I saw Brady stay out there to go for it. It was a good idea; it just didn't work.

 

[vyrago]

Re: Defending Belichick...

If it did work, BB would be the toast of the town.. but it didn't... now the pundits can pile on.

And led by the flawless Dan Shaugnessy ("Belichick gaffe unrivaled" ),
they certainly are.


Belichick gaffe unrivaled - The Boston Globe

 

[ivanvamp]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I didn't know where to post this so i am putting it in here.....Here are my thoughts.....Everyone keeps referring to this series as being the series that lost us the game??? I totally disagree.....We got the ball up 2 scores with 4:17 left in the game and went 3 and out and punted the ball with 4:02 left on the clock......So we used a whole 15 seconds of the clock and gave the ball back to the Colts who went down and scored a TD in like 1:30

What are you talking about? Here are the 4th quarter possessions:

NE: Pats finished off a drive that began in the 3rd quarter with a TD pass to Moss to put them up 31-14.

Ind: starts the drive at 14:18 and marches 79 yards in 5 plays in 2:04, score a TD on a beautiful pass to Garcon

NE: starts the next drive at 12:14 and runs 7 plays, gaining 27 yards, using 4:12 on the clock...Hanson punts it to the Ind 18

Ind: starts the drive at 7:54, and on the first play, Manning throws an INT, which is returned to the Indy 31

NE: starts the drive at 7:44, and runs 7 plays, gaining 13 yards, using 3:32...ends in a field goal to put them up 34-21

Ind: starts the drive at 4:12, and marches 79 yards in 6 plays, using 1:49 on the clock, ends on a TD run by Addai

NE: starts the drive at 2:23, runs off only 0:23, ends on failed 4th down conversion

Ind: marches 29 yards in 4 plays, using 1:47, ends on a TD to Wayne for a 35-34 lead...game over

So what part of this "We got the ball up 2 scores with 4:17 left in the game and went 3 and out and punted the ball with 4:02 left on the clock" actually happened in the game? Not sure what you're talking about, really. You're probably thinking of the Pats' possession immediately following Indy's first TD of the 4th quarter, but on that possession, the Pats chewed up 4:12, not "just 15 seconds".