3-4 returns.

[satz]

Last time we played in 4-3 we had alot of trouble, then we moved to 3-4 and had some success. still the TE on the broncos owned our OLB guys while blocking .especially nincovich struggled.

we countered by moving vince over to anderson side to help anderson with the run and not have the tackle gaurd blow him up in a combo blockes. But that meant love was in the middle and other 3-4 DE was letting nincovich in an island .

my thoughts.

play 3-4 with deadrick as a OLB with Mayo/Fletcher/Ninco as LB.that will mean we will have only 1 safety Chung in there 15 yrds from the LOS - taking away slants and extra support in the box . a bigger size against the there TE/FB/RB blocking set.We got devin deep. he is your speed help.

we are playing 3-4 with a bigger front 8 to control the running game. Unlike the steelers i am putting 1 safety in the backend deep.

weakness :
1) LB against TE in coverage and looking at safety to provide support.
2) The side other end of Vince and you want deadrick and ninco to hold up.

key are our LB
Mayo - sideline to sideline with a strong side emphasis behind anderson
Fletcher - hold the middle.
Ninco - Help deadrick..
chung 15 yrds from LOS center field.slant and crossing route support. as your LB are more worried about the LOS this will give them help in drop`s knowing he got them deep.
devin - support CB`s

broncos are pulling 2 OL and this where the ends struggled.there running is based on huge TE holding the edge letting the OL to pull....

ALSO trying to a 1 on 1 on hochestin who is the starting gaurd as the RG just went on IR.

 

[ay-yo]

You don't want to play a 4-3 so your solution is play a 3-4 w/ an extra DL on the field. Aren't we back to a 4-3 now?

 

[satz]

You don't want to play a 4-3 so your solution is play a 3-4 w/ an extra DL on the field. Aren't we back to a 4-3 now?

If you think 4-3 ends are like 3-4 ends .in 4-3 we have nino and anderson at ends.

but anyway i playing a front 7 on heavy with a Safety gaurding against slants and crossing routes. Also it let your LB from dropping in coverage as the comitment is the LOS.

both 3-4 olb will be shaded outside of tackles and on TE`s. 2 DE and Vince holding the middle up .i am helping both the ends from collapsing like last time.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i dont see the talent at OLB to play a 3-4 the pats will be in nickle most of the time anyways

 

[upstater1]

i dont see the talent at OLB to play a 3-4 the pats will be in nickle most of the time anyways

Since we brought back McDaniels, we should bring back Richard Seymour as well.

 

[brady199]

Last time we played in 4-3 we had alot of trouble, then we moved to 3-4 and had some success. still the TE on the broncos owned our OLB guys while blocking .especially nincovich struggled.

we countered by moving vince over to anderson side to help anderson with the run and not have the tackle gaurd blow him up in a combo blockes. But that meant love was in the middle and other 3-4 DE was letting nincovich in an island .

my thoughts.

play 3-4 with deadrick as a OLB with Mayo/Fletcher/Ninco as LB.that will mean we will have only 1 safety Chung in there 15 yrds from the LOS - taking away slants and extra support in the box . a bigger size against the there TE/FB/RB blocking set.We got devin deep. he is your speed help.

we are playing 3-4 with a bigger front 8 to control the running game. Unlike the steelers i am putting 1 safety in the backend deep.

weakness :
1) LB against TE in coverage and looking at safety to provide support.
2) The side other end of Vince and you want deadrick and ninco to hold up.

key are our LB
Mayo - sideline to sideline with a strong side emphasis behind anderson
Fletcher - hold the middle.
Ninco - Help deadrick..
chung 15 yrds from LOS center field.slant and crossing route support. as your LB are more worried about the LOS this will give them help in drop`s knowing he got them deep.
devin - support CB`s

broncos are pulling 2 OL and this where the ends struggled.there running is based on huge TE holding the edge letting the OL to pull....

ALSO trying to a 1 on 1 on hochestin who is the starting gaurd as the RG just went on IR.

I just can't see that happening.

 

[VrabelJr]

Deaderick is an end in a 3-4 and an end in a 4-3. Deaderick at OLB in a 3-4? Are you insane? He cannot stand up.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think we'll be seeing a lot of Spikes in this game. Just saying.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you think 4-3 ends are like 3-4 ends .in 4-3 we have nino and anderson at ends.

but anyway i playing a front 7 on heavy with a Safety gaurding against slants and crossing routes. Also it let your LB from dropping in coverage as the comitment is the LOS.

both 3-4 olb will be shaded outside of tackles and on TE`s. 2 DE and Vince holding the middle up .i am helping both the ends from collapsing like last time.

Satz - Not sure where you get that Ninkovich and Anderson normally play the ends in the 4-3, but you are wrong. Ninkovich, in the 4-3 lines up at OLB. The 4-3, on most downs, is Ellis/Anderson/Deaderick, Love, Wilfork, Carter/Anderson. Ninkovich at OLB. Mayo at MLB and one of Fletcher/Guyton at the other OLB position.

Also, what you overlook is that the Pats played the last Denver game without Fletcher, Spikes, or Chung. With them back, that makes the situation different.

The Pats will use the 3-4 against Denver with Love, Deaderick and Wilfork on the line and Anderson/Ninkovich at OLB with Fletcher/Spikes at one ILB position and Mayo at the other. With Chung, McCourty, Arrington, Edelman, Moore, and Ihedigbo the guys in the defensive secondary, the Pats should be able to double up on Thomas and limit him.

The key to stopping Tebow is the same key they used to stop Vick when he was with the Falcons. You put a spy on him so that he's limited in what he does..

You put pressure on him with the 3 man run, your OLBs holding their lanes to prevent Tebow from running and force him to beat you with his arm. Which is hit or miss. As he showed against the Pats and he showed against the Steelers..

 

[Patspsycho]

Deaderick is an end in a 3-4 and an end in a 4-3. Deaderick at OLB in a 3-4? Are you insane? He cannot stand up.

It has been done before. Deaderick is a DE but that doesn't mean he won't be moved around. Also who says he has to be standing up at the line? There's such a thing as a 3-4 alignment in a 44 stack, which I actually think would be ideal to stop the option. Deaderick could have the simple assignment to seal the edge.

I really don't see us in the nickel too much, we'll double up on Thomas and shut him down in a cover 1 scheme.

Don't know if we'll see much of Ninko; not only does he have a hip injury but he got destroyed trying to seal the edge in Denver- it doesn't matter that he shed to the wrong side on that first drive, it matters that he was not able to disengage and correct.

 

[Patspsycho]

Satz - Not sure where you get that Ninkovich and Anderson normally play the ends in the 4-3, but you are wrong. Ninkovich, in the 4-3 lines up at OLB. The 4-3, on most downs, is Ellis/Anderson/Deaderick, Love, Wilfork, Carter/Anderson. Ninkovich at OLB. Mayo at MLB and one of Fletcher/Guyton at the other OLB position.

Also, what you overlook is that the Pats played the last Denver game without Fletcher, Spikes, or Chung. With them back, that makes the situation different.

The Pats will use the 3-4 against Denver with Love, Deaderick and Wilfork on the line and Anderson/Ninkovich at OLB with Fletcher/Spikes at one ILB position and Mayo at the other. With Chung, McCourty, Arrington, Edelman, Moore, and Ihedigbo the guys in the defensive secondary, the Pats should be able to double up on Thomas and limit him.

The key to stopping Tebow is the same key they used to stop Vick when he was with the Falcons. You put a spy on him so that he's limited in what he does..

You put pressure on him with the 3 man run, your OLBs holding their lanes to prevent Tebow from running and force him to beat you with his arm. Which is hit or miss. As he showed against the Pats and he showed against the Steelers..

I really doubt we put a spy on the option, because if we do, Tebow can just flick the ball out every time the spy comes up or based on where the spy lines up- that's why it's called the option. I think the key is just to maintain gap discipline and seal the edges and force the play back inside- draw more from the gameplan we had the 2nd time we played the Miami wildcat, than from anything else.

I really think we will come out in the 3-4 this time.

 

[DaBruinz]

I really doubt we put a spy on the option, because if we do, Tebow can just flick the ball out every time the spy comes up or based on where the spy lines up- that's why it's called the option. I think the key is just to maintain gap discipline and seal the edges and force the play back inside- draw more from the gameplan we had the 2nd time we played the Miami wildcat, than from anything else.

I really think we will come out in the 3-4 this time.

As people have pointed out, Tebow has issues with short passes. This idea that he'll just "flick" the ball out as the Spy comes up doesn't fly. People said that about Vick and it didn't work either. The job of the "Spy" is to limit Tebow's running in the option, not force him to make the throw prior to the line, though that would likely result in an incomplete pass or an interception..

I think that drawing from the last 2nd and 3rd quarters against Tebow is better than drawing from anything else.

 

[Patspsycho]

As people have pointed out, Tebow has issues with short passes. This idea that he'll just "flick" the ball out as the Spy comes up doesn't fly. People said that about Vick and it didn't work either. The job of the "Spy" is to limit Tebow's running in the option, not force him to make the throw prior to the line, though that would likely result in an incomplete pass or an interception..

I think that drawing from the last 2nd and 3rd quarters against Tebow is better than drawing from anything else.

It will be really interesting to see what happens. With the two weeks off, you can bet there is an extra wrinkle. We have been running more and more complicated packages the last two weeks of the RS, so I take that as a good sign.

 

[MSU]

Look, I'm just some dude sitting on a couch but am I the only one who found the Steelers' defensive gameplan mind blowingly ******ed? Tebow was terrible in the red zone yesterday. Whatever gameplan involves not leaving your corners on an island and making Tebow sustain drives sounds good to me. Let them kick FGs all day.

 

[MaineMan]

Last time we played in 4-3 we had alot of trouble, then we moved to 3-4 and had some success. still the TE on the broncos owned our OLB guys while blocking .especially nincovich struggled.

The TE and OL on Ninkovich "owned" him because they were flagrantly holding until the refs made them tone it down. This was just before the Pats started playing more 30-fronts, after which Ninkovich was in more of a contain role, anyway. Even so, he managed to get some tackles, pressures and even a sack AFTER Andre Carter went out with his injury. Denver didn't completely cease their holding, though. Fletcher missed a chance at a TFL because an OL had him in a choke-hold from behind, and Deaderick missed a sack because (I think) the blocking back had a fistful of his jersey tail.

we countered by moving vince over to anderson side to help anderson with the run and not have the tackle gaurd blow him up in a combo blockes. But that meant love was in the middle and other 3-4 DE was letting nincovich in an island .

my thoughts.

play 3-4 with deadrick as a OLB with Mayo/Fletcher/Ninco as LB.that will mean we will have only 1 safety Chung in there 15 yrds from the LOS - taking away slants and extra support in the box . a bigger size against the there TE/FB/RB blocking set.We got devin deep. he is your speed help.

we are playing 3-4 with a bigger front 8 to control the running game. Unlike the steelers i am putting 1 safety in the backend deep.

Don't think I'd use Deaderick as an OLB, per se, in 30-fronts, even as an "Elephant" guy (which might be Anderson's role). I think I'd anchor the 30 with Wilfork at nose (of course) and various combos of Ellis/Warren (against the run) and Love/Deaderick (at RDE) for pass-rush.

At LB, I'd use Spikes to hold the middle, direct traffic and stuff gaps to funnel the RB to Mayo/Chung. Chung can play behind a 7-man box and come up as needed. Anderson is maybe the rush/contain WOLB opposite Ninko at SOLB, possibly alternating with Fletcher when they want an ILB blitz (or to fake one) with Mayo moving to WOLB replacing Anderson.

weakness :
1) LB against TE in coverage and looking at safety to provide support.
2) The side other end of Vince and you want deadrick and ninco to hold up.

key are our LB
Mayo - sideline to sideline with a strong side emphasis behind anderson
Fletcher - hold the middle.
Ninco - Help deadrick..
chung 15 yrds from LOS center field.slant and crossing route support. as your LB are more worried about the LOS this will give them help in drop`s knowing he got them deep.
devin - support CB`s

broncos are pulling 2 OL and this where the ends struggled.there running is based on huge TE holding the edge letting the OL to pull....

ALSO trying to a 1 on 1 on hochestin who is the starting gaurd as the RG just went on IR.

I'm actually okay with Ninkovich as a part of a destroy package on the TE (Fells, who's not all that) or following him in man.

Molden, McCourty, Arrington and Chung are probably the best tackling DBs (other than, of course, Edelman!). I like Moore, but he seems to take chances that could get him burned. I agree that McCourty might be the best help over the top. The key there is "read and speed". Tebow's deep throws seem to be mostly high, arcing lobs, so McCourty shouldn't have much problem getting into a help/disruption position by the time Tebow has finished his wind-up as long as MCourty (or the CB) doesn't bite on something and come up.

I don't see Hochstein as much of a downgrade, if at all, at RG from Kuper (the injured guy). Hochstein plays much smarter, IMO.

 

[VrabelJr]

So you guys want a super slow DE setting the edge in the 3-4 versus a much faster and most likely more explosive OLB? Holy moly. I'm having nightmares of Tebow getting outside on Deaderick.

Also, huge LOL at you people talking about "spys." This is the NFL, not college. If you set a spy in the pros you're playing 10 on 11 and in the pros you CANNOT make up for that loss of a player. In the pros you might see Linebackers do things called "hugs" but this is where they follow an RB and eventually blitz depending on what the RB does. Being that Tebow functions as an RB as well you could call more LB hugs but that just means you're going to end up sending 5 rushers more often than you want to against a less than 50% completion passer. Rush 4 at the most and make him figure out the coverages.

Also, to who ever said we don't use Ninkovich as a DE in the 4-3 you are completely incorrect. Ninkovich is a OLB in our base 4-3 but he plays DE in our sub packages (which we've been in more often than our base). Anderson is also a DE in our 4-3 in the sub package (usually playing LDE on 3rd downs) and has seen an increase in playing time in all packages at RDE due to Carter's injury.

 

[MaineMan]

As people have pointed out, Tebow has issues with short passes. This idea that he'll just "flick" the ball out as the Spy comes up doesn't fly. People said that about Vick and it didn't work either. The job of the "Spy" is to limit Tebow's running in the option, not force him to make the throw prior to the line, though that would likely result in an incomplete pass or an interception..

I think that drawing from the last 2nd and 3rd quarters against Tebow is better than drawing from anything else.

Tebow actually did that to Mayo a couple times, once resulting in a 34-yd scamper by Ball that set up Tebow's 2yd plunge for Denver's last points in Q4. The problem, of course, was not with the "spy" concept, it was Mayo's eff-up.

 

[MaineMan]

So you guys want a super slow DE setting the edge in the 3-4 versus a much faster and most likely more explosive OLB? Holy moly. I'm having nightmares of Tebow getting outside on Deaderick.

Also, huge LOL at you people talking about "spys." This is the NFL, not college. If you set a spy in the pros you're playing 10 on 11 and in the pros you CANNOT make up for that loss of a player.

Also, to who ever said we don't use Ninkovich as a DE in the 4-3 you are completely incorrect. Ninkovich is a OLB in our base 4-3 but he plays DE in our sub packages (which we've been in more often than our base). Anderson is also a DE in our 4-3 in the sub package (usually playing LDE on 3rd downs) and has seen an increase in playing time in all packages at RDE due to Carter's injury.

I actually thought that Deaderick was doing a pretty good job of helping to contain Tebow, get pressure on him, and to chase him down - from the RDE spot in the 3-4 (NOT from OLB). When he wasn't getting held, that is.

 

[MaineMan]

Look, I'm just some dude sitting on a couch but am I the only one who found the Steelers' defensive gameplan mind blowingly ******ed? Tebow was terrible in the red zone yesterday. Whatever gameplan involves not leaving your corners on an island and making Tebow sustain drives sounds good to me. Let them kick FGs all day.

No.

:deadhorse:

 

[ScottishPat]

Satz - Not sure where you get that Ninkovich and Anderson normally play the ends in the 4-3, but you are wrong. Ninkovich, in the 4-3 lines up at OLB. The 4-3, on most downs, is Ellis/Anderson/Deaderick, Love, Wilfork, Carter/Anderson. Ninkovich at OLB. Mayo at MLB and one of Fletcher/Guyton at the other OLB position.

Also, what you overlook is that the Pats played the last Denver game without Fletcher, Spikes, or Chung. With them back, that makes the situation different.

The Pats will use the 3-4 against Denver with Love, Deaderick and Wilfork on the line and Anderson/Ninkovich at OLB with Fletcher/Spikes at one ILB position and Mayo at the other. With Chung, McCourty, Arrington, Edelman, Moore, and Ihedigbo the guys in the defensive secondary, the Pats should be able to double up on Thomas and limit him.

The key to stopping Tebow is the same key they used to stop Vick when he was with the Falcons. You put a spy on him so that he's limited in what he does..

You put pressure on him with the 3 man run, your OLBs holding their lanes to prevent Tebow from running and force him to beat you with his arm. Which is hit or miss. As he showed against the Pats and he showed against the Steelers..

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Could Fletcher play as a 3-4 OLB in run stopping situations and bring in Anderson on obvious 3rd down passing ? Set the edge with Ninko and Fletch and make it look like a 5-2 D up front and have Mayo and Spikes just sit in the hole between the Line and the Secondary.