2025 Draft: Defensive Tackles

[dliverey44]

Tonka time

He had a great Shrine game also. Wow really nice athleticism, I love the spin on the drill to the field clip. DT/FB/TE can he throw? lol

 

[dliverey44]

It was that graph that has put me squarely back in the Mason Graham camp if we miss on Carter/Hunter. Who wouldn't want a defensive Tackle who has every possibility of being a top 10 DT in the league?

Yea and if he is in fact Marshmellow man and this good what happens when he gets a personnel chef and cuts to 12% percent body fat? I just made that number up and it is not a threshold for anything. I am firmly in the Mason at 4 or trade down and take TE Warren.

 

[manxman2601]

Yea and if he is in fact Marshmellow man and this good what happens when he gets a personnel chef and cuts to 12% percent body fat? I just made that number up and it is not a threshold for anything. I am firmly in the Mason at 4 or trade down and take TE Warren.

I'm still Carter and Hunter 1&2 but I too am Graham/Warren after that.

 

[manxman2601]

It was that graph that has put me squarely back in the Mason Graham camp if we miss on Carter/Hunter. Who wouldn't want a defensive Tackle who has every possibility of being a top 10 DT in the league?

By the way, what if we signed Milton Williams too? If Barmore returns, that's essentially a rotation of Graham-Barmore-M Williams-K White.

 

[dliverey44]

By the way, what if we signed Milton Williams too? If Barmore returns, that's essentially a rotation of Graham-Barmore-M Williams-K White.

Every play could be a race to the QB. That sounds like a fun thing to watch

 

[manxman2601]

Here are the 2025 DTs stacked by True Pass Set Pass rush Grade and Run Defense Grade. It's similar to the graph the page before but tidier and sorted by PFF grades rather than win rates.

If you're looking for the best value DTs outside of the first round, you shouldn't look much further than Aeneas Peebles, TJ Sanders, Alfred Collins, CJ West or Jamaree Caldwell.

Sanders/West or Collins/Peebles or combination of any strikes me as the best way to go. special mention to Jamaree Caldwell who is the perfectly average (in a good way) guy.



Or you could just draft Graham

 

[bakes781]

Here are the 2025 DTs stacked by True Pass Set Pass rush Grade and Run Defense Grade. It's similar to the graph the page before but tidier and sorted by PFF grades rather than win rates.

If you're looking for the best value DTs outside of the first round, you shouldn't look much further than Aeneas Peebles, TJ Sanders, Alfred Collins, CJ West or Jamaree Caldwell.

Sanders/West or Collins/Peebles or combination of any strikes me as the best way to go. special mention to Jamaree Caldwell who is the perfectly average (in a good way) guy.



Or you could just draft Graham

Is there a similar graph for Edge?

 

[manxman2601]

This is an informative graph. Basically you want to be in the top right quadrant and look at the company the likes of Green, Carter, Umanmielen and Pearce are keeping.

Is there a similar graph for Edge?

This is the only one I've seen so far

 

[manxman2601]

This is an informative graph. Basically you want to be in the top right quadrant and look at the company the likes of Green, Carter, Umanmielen and Pearce are keeping.

Edit : Click on view attachment. It's the one from the EDGE thread.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Here are the 2025 DTs stacked by True Pass Set Pass rush Grade and Run Defense Grade. It's similar to the graph the page before but tidier and sorted by PFF grades rather than win rates.

If you're looking for the best value DTs outside of the first round, you shouldn't look much further than Aeneas Peebles, TJ Sanders, Alfred Collins, CJ West or Jamaree Caldwell.

Sanders/West or Collins/Peebles or combination of any strikes me as the best way to go. special mention to Jamaree Caldwell who is the perfectly average (in a good way) guy.



Or you could just draft Graham

While I sometimes nitpick with PFF grades, it is nice to see my analysis backed up by something that tries to quantify the process. I continue to like Harmon a lot, as well as Collins, Caldwell, and Grant. Graham is growing on me, and his dominance shines in this chart. Maybe I should stop being stubborn and just go with the easy choice. I still wish that we could trade down slightly to pick up another second or third asset before taking him, but that might be more of an issue with me than it is with Graham.

 

[bakes781]

Edit : Click on view attachment. It's the one from the EDGE thread.

I figured there was but I'm lazy lol

When in London

 

[manxman2601]

While I sometimes nitpick with PFF grades, it is nice to see my analysis backed up by something that tries to quantify the process. I continue to like Harmon a lot, as well as Collins, Caldwell, and Grant. Graham is growing on me, and his dominance shines in this chart. Maybe I should stop being stubborn and just go with the easy choice. I still wish that we could trade down slightly to pick up another second or third asset before taking him, but that might be more of an issue with me than it is with Graham.

What's your reluctance on Graham?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

What's your reluctance on Graham?

His build, his playstyle, and his value. I don't rank him as highly as I did Vea, Lawerence, or Jordan. I think he's a top-25 talent in this draft, and his metrics are fantastic, but I struggle with projecting him as the type of impact-player worthy of a top-ten pick. As I said, it's probably more of a me problem, since no real analyst has come to this conclusion. I think he'd be a good player, and probably better than what we have. I'm not sure he's a Seymour or a Wilfork.

 

[manxman2601]

His build, his playstyle, and his value. I don't rank him as highly as I did Vea, Lawerence, or Jordan. I think he's a top-25 talent in this draft, and his metrics are fantastic, but I struggle with projecting him as the type of impact-player worthy of a top-ten pick. As I said, it's probably more of a me problem, since no real analyst has come to this conclusion. I think he'd be a good player, and probably better than what we have. I'm not sure he's a Seymour or a Wilfork.

I think that's a fair criticism although I think offering up a current HOFer, two future HOFers and the current best DT in football as comparisons is a little harsh.

In his defence, I would offer up the following:

1. Who in this draft is as worthy of a top 10 pick outside of Carter and Hunter? We have to pick someone.
2. Even in his rookie year, I think he's a top 5 player on this team and immediately raises the floor.
3. He's arguably the safest player in this draft and I think we need safe with our first pick.
4. He'll be a tone-setter for the whole of the DL.
5. Despite it being a very deep DT class, there's a big gap between Warren and all those other prospects outside of round 1.

There are two areas where I do agree with you. I'm not bothered by his build per se, but his arm length is a bit of a concern. Having said that, it hasn't affected him in college where he's been super reliable over 3 years. My other area of concern is his ceiling. Is he maxed out as to what he can become? I think possibly yes but for the reasons above I'm not so bothered by that. If we were a better team I'd want more of a high ceiling player, but we're a team that needs to raise it's floor dramatically.

I look at the alternatives: Walker, Green, Williams, Burden, Campbell, McMillan, Johnson and I just don't see anyone who elevates the team in the same way Graham does and that's why he's no 3 on my board. There was one name I left out there and that's Tyler Warren. I'm in a situation where my head wants Graham but my heart really has started to demand Warren.

 

[bakes781]

I think that's a fair criticism although I think offering up a current HOFer, two future HOFers and the current best DT in football as comparisons is a little harsh.

In his defence, I would offer up the following:

1. Who in this draft is as worthy of a top 10 pick outside of Carter and Hunter? We have to pick someone.
2. Even in his rookie year, I think he's a top 5 player on this team and immediately raises the floor.
3. He's arguably the safest player in this draft and I think we need safe with our first pick.
4. He'll be a tone-setter for the whole of the DL.
5. Despite it being a very deep DT class, there's a big gap between Warren and all those other prospects outside of round 1.

There are two areas where I do agree with you. I'm not bothered by his build per se, but his arm length is a bit of a concern. Having said that, it hasn't affected him in college where he's been super reliable over 3 years. My other area of concern is his ceiling. Is he maxed out as to what he can become? I think possibly yes but for the reasons above I'm not so bothered by that. If we were a better team I'd want more of a high ceiling player, but we're a team that needs to raise it's floor dramatically.

I look at the alternatives: Walker, Green, Williams, Burden, Campbell, McMillan, Johnson and I just don't see anyone who elevates the team in the same way Graham does and that's why he's no 3 on my board. There was one name I left out there and that's Tyler Warren. I'm in a situation where my head wants Graham but my heart really has started to demand Warren.

My heart wants Green. I'm not interested in "playing it safe". We need to hit BIG and to do so you need to accept some risk.

 

[manxman2601]

My heart wants Green. I'm not interested in "playing it safe". We need to hit BIG and to do so you need to accept some risk.

A bust with the first pick would really set this team back. There is too much risk that Green is a situational pass rusher for my taste.

 

[manxman2601]

Hmmm.

 

[Clonamery]

Hmmm.

If he can't make it as a DL, he certainly could make the cheerleading squad.

 

[manxman2601]

Hmmm.

you're looking for no1 who usually lines up on the left side of a 3 man front.



Really explosive get off at the snap and a decent ability to dip for a 280lb guy. Not super productive (6-8 sacks per season) although not bad for someone in a 3 man front.

 

[Water Boy]

Barth and Lazar aren't as high on Graham's run stopping capability. They think the grading is a little inflated and don't think he's very stout against double teams. The other DT on Michigan was an immovable object and they think Graham's numbers profited from that.

I'm not saying he isn't a great player. Just might not be the total package.