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2024 NFL Draft Thread (Continued..)

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OK, so if you're all in on Maye, you would be willing to let him slip away being 1 pick away just to own CHI?

I suppose if that's the case, you were really never all in on Maye and the plan was to sit and hope he falls to you or trade back for more picks. I guess either strategy has merit but again, if he's your guy, you take him, imo.
If Maye falls to #3, I would feel good about taking him (and have him sit his rookie season, which I would do with any QB that we draft). When surrounded with sufficient talent on the OL and receiver and RB, etc. He has the most intriguing total ability for a QB in the draft: Size, arm strength, good athletic ability and can scramble and extend plays when needed. There are no Andrew Luck caliber QB's in this draft (at least not on paper, although one could become a true franchise one). As usual, only time will tell.
 
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Under the radar prospects:

-WR, Malik Washington, Virginia…(Elite in slot, Demario Douglas with slightly stronger hands)

-CB, Renardo Green, Florida State… (Excellent in press man, played impressively against a lot of top NFL WR prospects)

-DL, Mohamed Kamara, Colorado State… (2nd most productive pass rusher in the nation, 30 career sacks, 71 pressures, top 20 in pass rush win rate (19.6%), able to win with both power & speed, elite bend/balance, intelligent player, comparable to Shaq Barrett).

-RB, Isaac Guerendo, Louisville…(6’1 220, 4.3/4.4 speed, low mileage, 1 out of every 6 carries were explosive runs (15+ yards), converted WR, great hands, perfect for Shanahan system).

-OT, Garret Greenfield, SDSU…(6’7 322, elite first step, great length/balance, NFL ready, run blocking needs work/technique but he’s 6’7 sooo…only allowed 10 total pressures/ 2 sacks on 376 snaps in 2023, 2.7% pressure allowed %…small school level of competition??…)

-DT, Khristian Boyd, UNI
-OT, Anim Dankwah, Howard
-EDGE, Solomon Byrd, USC
-WR, Cornelius Johnson, Michigan
-DB, Rabbit Taylor-Demerson, TTU
-WR, Tahj Washington, USC
-DB, Jarrian Jones, Florida State
-IOL, Mason McCormick, SDST
-G, Christian Mahogany, Boston College
-EDGE, Xavier Thomas, Clemson
-CB, Qwan’tez Stiggers, Toronto Argonauts
 
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Ok I watched a good amount of video of the top QBs and here’s where I’m at.
Daniel’s is an absolute weapon at the college Level and had some amazing WRs.
I’m concerned about his frame and if his arm is strong Enough for the NFL. When he can’t run can he go thru his progressions?

Drake Maye Big kid big arm, but something to me isn’t there.
I don’t see many throws in tight coverage, I see him throwing deep balls to Tez walker and if we get Maye we should try to pair him up with Walker.
However I don’t see a lot of velocity on his throws they travel far but I’m not seeing him put the ball on a rope in tight windows.

I’m going to echo Harbaugh here, I like J J McCarthy, kid didn’t make every throw a deep ball, he went thru his progressions and he puts the ball on the money in tight converage. Throws on the run really well.
I saw some throws where it was Rodgers like. He is disciplined and he runs to set up his throws. When he has to run he is the second best running QB aside from Daniel’s.

Bo Nix I love the kid too, quick release, makes all the throws a west coast system would ask him to. Makes throws to tight windows with enough velocity.
Maybe the second most accurate QB in this draft after Williams.
Has played a lot of ball and keeps getting better.

If we do QB In top 3 I hope it’s Caleb or Daniel’s.
I would take Harrison JR or trade down.
However I think McCarthy is going to fly up the board and go in the top 10.
He has all the tools.

Maye scares me the most is he Josh Allen or Andy Dalton?

Nix is 34, he has 5 kids. He just went to college because he didn’t graduate from high school until he was 29. He’s dumb as a rock.
 
The debate will rage on what to do with pick for a couple of months. Still got combine, pro days, free agency to sort it all out. Can check the Senior Bowl off the list.
 
OK, so if you're all in on Maye, you would be willing to let him slip away being 1 pick away just to own CHI?

I suppose if that's the case, you were really never all in on Maye and the plan was to sit and hope he falls to you or trade back for more picks. I guess either strategy has merit but again, if he's your guy, you take him, imo.
That’s how Chicago wants you to feel though. The counter to that is how all-in is Chicago on Harrison? If they trade with anyone else they’ll miss him too. So it’s a game of chicken.

It’s not just about how all-in you are in Maye, it’s Maye plus your 2nd rounder which might be one of your starting tackles or your WR1 plus maybe even another pick depending on Chicago’s demands.
 
McCarthy and Nix to me are neck and neck.
I think Mccarthy could be the better player.
 
That’s how Chicago wants you to feel though. The counter to that is how all-in is Chicago on Harrison? If they trade with anyone else they’ll miss him too. So it’s a game of chicken.

It’s not just about how all-in you are in Maye, it’s Maye plus your 2nd rounder which might be one of your starting tackles or your WR1 plus maybe even another pick depending on Chicago’s demands.
2nd Rder is too rich to move from 3 to 2.
 
McCarthy and Nix to me are neck and neck.
I think Mccarthy could be the better player.
Maybe? Would of loved to see McCarthy stay in school. Harbaugh ran a very game specific design that attacked opponent weaknesses. If you couldn’t stop the run he’d run it the entire game. A lot of 100+ yard games by McCarthy. Not a lot of good film on him. Has a nice completion percentage in his favor.

Again, could of answered all the questions by staying in school or attending the senior bowl. Although, not sure if that was an option for him. Should be a tell all for him at the combine and pro day. He has a lot riding on it.
 
McCarthy and Nix to me are neck and neck.
I think Mccarthy could be the better player.
Yeah, things would of looked a lot better for Nix today if Devontez Walker didn’t drop the pass that could of gone for 40+ yards. Probably would of been the MVP. Snore fest of a game though.
 
I think most here will agree that Chicago can get multiple first round picks, and then some, depending upon how far a team has to come up for it. So the fact that Chicago would be willing to forego those picks to get rid of their QB and draft another one with that pick tells all we need to know about what they think of Fields.
 

Seen it. I’d take him and never look back. Some posters seems to look more at the games played vs competition rather than what he actually does on the field. Not talking stats, yards. There’s a reason why scouts have higher grades on Maye and Williams. They could care less if Drake Maye was 7-7 or Caleb Williams played sub par in a pass happy conference. They still hold character, coach ability in high regard. But the main thing they are looking for is can we make this player work for us? Can we make him special? Does he have traits and attributes that translate to this league? Obviously many scouts have them rated 1-2 for a reason which tells us they are confident they are NFL talented at least. Now it’s the figuring out part that needs to be done.
 
Bo Nix played Johnny Crowder on Justified.
 
Looking at our players from this link, made me realize the only T signed beyond this '24 season is Lowe (6th Rd). Need to get at least two tackles in this draft.

 
Nix is 34, he has 5 kids. He just went to college because he didn’t graduate from high school until he was 29. He’s dumb as a rock.
That was funny. He is still 23, but yeah, he does look 35 with 5 kids. Captain Pike from the new Star Trek I’ve got a laugh out of too. Not sure about the dumb as a rock part though?
 
2nd Rder is too rich to move from 3 to 2.
A 2nd rounder would likely be the starting price just based on draft chart value. Chicago would probably be trying to squeeze more. Hence my hesitation.

If we are talking a 3rd, I would say yeah just do it to secure your guy.
 
You could put Dan Marino in his prime in this offense and he would struggle to match MAC Jones’s numbers.

Fix the offensive line and add playmakers and the offense will improve.
 
MHJ is the probably the best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson to come out in the draft. If Caleb Williams and the Drake are taken then MHJ is best pick unless you get a crazy trade offer for #3
Good afternoon Cousins, I have to agree with your post here.
Nice breakfast this morning of ham, American cheese, eggs on a large crescent roll with hot chocolate to wash it down.Then a couple of slices of tea cakes for an add.

Think "blue chip". Is Daniels or Maye a consensus blue chip player? Again who knows but I would give the nod to MHJ to be a shot for a yellow jacket. But............

We have too many holes to bank a whole Draft success on a rookie QB that looking at the tape, Williams is the only possibility, and going after him is too rich. You almost have to start Maye or Daniels right away for that Draft investment.

IMO a trade can be made while grooming a QB and a shot......just a shot ...at the playoffs next year meanwhile filling holes. FYI, I am not a Fan of this player but stats say his numbers are top twenty and he's only 35......and can maneuver if the OL breaks down. A poor Denver Team won twice as mant games as we didi for those who crush me on this post.

The Broncos would like to move up to Draft a QB. The News?.........They have even said Surtain might be available.

My Draft day trade would be with the Broncos if they pay some of Russell Wilson's salary, their #12 pick, OT Garret Boles (only 3 sacks in 2023) and Jerry Juedy plus their #2 on 2025 for our #3, Mac Jones and Schuster. Boles is in the lasst year but see what he does. Jeudy is expensive but only 25. Maybe Troy Brown can motivate him. He's a year rental. Again see if he works out. Now at #12 you can go OT or WR. At #34 Spencer Rattler who outplayer Nix and Penix Senior Bowl weel. That kis had the worst OL in the SEC and he is still going to be Drafted. Best arm I saw in Mobile. Have him sit behind Wilson.

Then you could offer Pittsburg #12 for their #20 and #52 Maybe change it up and grab front seven Latu or Byron Murphy. Rattler at #34 .Then OT Jordan Morgan #52

It's not perfect but we would be more competive, have a top 15 pick and get a QB who might be better that Nic, Pennic, McCarthy or Daniels who was under the radar. The Pats have met with him more than once doen there.

Perhaps Surtain interests you with Wilson?

The whole compection of the Patriots would be changed with this trade.

DW Toys
 
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Good afternoon Cousins, I have to agree with your post here.
Nice breakfast this morning of ham, American cheese, eggs on a large crescent roll with hot chocolate to wash it down.Then a couple of slices of tea cakes for an add.

Think "blue chip". Is Daniels or Maye a consensus blue chip player? Again who knows but I would give the nod to MHJ to be a shot for a yellow jacket. But............

We have too many holes to bank a whole Draft success on a rookie QB that looking at the tape, Williams is the only possibility, and going after him is too rich. You almost have to start Maye or Daniels right away for that Draft investment.

IMO a trade can be made while grooming a QB and a shot......just a shot ...at the playoffs next year meanwhile filling holes. FYI, I am not a Fan of this player but stats say his numbers are top twenty and he's only 35......and can maneuver if the OL breaks down. A poor Denver Team won twice as mant games as we didi for those who crush me on this post.

The Broncos would like to move up to Draft a QB. The News?.........They have even said Surtain might be available.

My Draft day trade would be with the Broncos if they pay some of Russell Wilson's salary, their #12 pick, OT Garret Boles (only 3 sacks in 2023) and Jerry Juedy plus their #2 on 2025 for our #3, Mac Jones and Schuster. Boles is in the lasst year but see what he does. Jeudy is expensive but only 25. Maybe Troy Brown can motivate him. He's a year rental. Again see if he works out. Now at #12 you can go OT or WR. At #34 Spencer Rattler who outplayer Nix and Penix Senior Bowl weel. That kis had the worst OL in the SEC and he is still going to be Drafted. Best arm I saw in Mobile. Have him sit behind Wilson.

It's not perfect but we would be more competive, have a top 15 pick and get a QB who might be better that Nic, Pennic, McCarthy or Daniels who was under the radar. The Pats have met with him more than once doen there.

Perhaps Surtain interests you with Wilson?

The whole compection of the Patriots would be changed with this trade.

DW Toys
IMHO, we CANNOT or should not wait until April to sign our starting 2024 QB.

Probably, all of the top QB's should sit out at least half the season, so a starting QB is critical, and waiting until APril will give us few options.

The rumor is that Brissett is our favored target. Of course, we could have others ahead of him.

Alos, I don't believe that the best strategy is to have a mid-level free agent starter, That will give us more flexibility in the draft. Also, have a couple of NFL quality OT's would also help that flexibility.
=========
If we like the top three, no flexibility is needed. We would just wait until our pick and perhaps try to extract a pick from AZ and then pick a QB.
 
Thanks for the info. I hadn’t heard anything about Daniel’s not getting along, but burrows had a similar trajectory at LSU.
A little went public and there wasnt a big issue behind the scenes. Just some back and forth with teammates. Mostly bs not a big deal but it's there.


Again my big thing is I want someone who can develop these guys, someone that can help them grasp the tough stuff easier. Someone who can really watch tape and not only play to their strengths but also understand how a defense might react so they can adjust with specific built in options. Hold their hand when things get tough. You get the point by now.

If you feel that strongly you take the prospect but we all know how important coaching is to a young QB.

Anyway I really like Daniels. Going back to his ASU days he tossed beautiful deep passes. He's very good targeting the boundary in general for fades, go etc. Good accuracy obviously and has an arm. Arm isnt special but its more than good enough. Velocity could improve but hes got enough strength. Throws away from the leverage, protects his ball but gives his guy a chance to make a play.
His rushing abilities are outstanding. He's not Lamar or AR15 but he's electric. Speed quickness vision in the open field. He leaves his feet too easy and takes too many big hits but he's a nightmare for defenses. You almost have to play some type of 2hi/shell over the top but that'll inevitably leave lanes for him to rush. Balty never accomplished it bc they always end up hurt but pair him with a top tier back (Robinson, Stevenson etc) and "good luck" (Marco from Taken voice) He led power 5 in yards per rush and pass. So between his deep ball and rushing attack
he's already quite the handful in terms of how you would want to prepare for him. Very good on the move. Eyes stay down field. Accurate comfortable delivery doesn't change. Isn't a one read guy. Bright spot for sure.
He wasn't comfortable in PA early on in his career and although he's improved it stands out from from time to time. MOF/short area/intermediate areas are hit or miss. He's not avoiding them but not really comfortable. Occasionally his delivery looks disjointed. He's not comfortable digesting concepts in the mof, letting them develop, deliver with proper time. Longer he has to go from read to read the more likely the ball is to be incomplete.

For a OC I would someone really good at creating and designing explosive plays down field. Someone with a solid outstanding of how mesh works and how to get targets open in the mof with underneath routes. To make that as easy as possible. RPO/Designed runs. Put an exclamation point on his strengths. Let him produce how he knows. Make the tough stuff and weaknesses (mof, progressions) as easy as you can.

Caleb Williams really is a unique prospect in a lot of ways. He's not "generational" imo but he does possess a lot NFL qualities snd attributes.

His arm is NFL ready and really is what the "new" arm looks like. Like Baker Mayfield is similar to a closer in baseball. One or two pitches, mostly gas. Not the most versatile arm but very effective when on. Williams is more "whip" imo than arm. Very elastic, flexible and able to create power in short burst. Different arm angles. Ability to layer, thread the needle or drive it 50+ down field. Plus velocity and accuracy off balance, on the move.

His ability to make something out of nothing is well documented. Ability to escape is second to none. He brings it on himself a lot of the time but his instincts, anticipation and "feel" in the pocket is impressive. Very patient and aware.

Mobility and ability to extend are extremely impressive and rare but a lot of that is a facade imo. He needs (2023) 3.2 - 3.4 (2022) seconds to pull off these little showstopping moments. In fact that's the average time to pass so he's already in bottom half in terms of NFL QBs. You have Flacco, Watson, Stroud, R Wilson, Hurts, Mullens all in bottom half at around 3 seconds but half those guys can make it happen or could in Wilson's case. So you can see a path but still not where you want to be. Then you have Justin Fields on an island at 3.23. Most "time to throw" numbers are around 2.6 - 2.8. Anticipation was good in and out of structure. "Scheme" at USC was a joke though. They had big time OL issues and couldnt pick up a blitz to save their lives but that offense was awful to watch. Living off screens and short stuff, I mean living off them to try and set up fades, wheel routes over and over. On the surface it looked tailored to him and again they had personnel issues. So some of the pressure he dealt with was bc of that but that offense was a mess. Did him no favors imo.

Ball security is an issue. 33 fumbles over his career. He has a habit of holding the ball out too often. Again a lot of the pressure was bc of the OL but he has too get better here. Honestly coaching can help some but this is mostly in him. This was a coaching issue in HS. Now it's a Caleb issue. Pro coaches will yell at him but he'll have to make the effort and work on the details.

Down field and intermediate accuracy will have to improve some and certainly be complemented by targets with a plus catch radius, ability to go up and get the ball and catch through contact bc it's doubtful you'll see dramatic improvements. He will hold Saf, move second level defenders. He often makes things hard on himself but he's shown process, adjust and react with NFL-like quickness both mentally and physically.

Footwork is spotty and could improve but it's the price you pay for explosive plays and what he brings to the table. Release can be extremely quick and is made for an rpo system. Which he ran a lot of but again personnel issues. Too many passes where he made it hard on himself though. Would choose to "go with flow" while on the move instead of setting his feet. He does set up but not enough imo.

Slightly improved on mechanics the past few years. Which led to better trajectory on passes in general but definitely deep stuff.

Plus vision he wants to snd is always looking for a play, mostly big play but he's got eyes always set down field.

Maybe on the "small side" at 6'1 but built and looks all of 215.

Insane TD/INT ratio stats and accomplishments. Plenty of big game experience. Where almost everything was placed on his shoulders. Entirely too much. 6-8 against top 25 teams I believe. McCarthy is like 9-3 but only averaged 19 attempts I believe. Nix has a lot of big game experience but never really stepped up like you'd want. Maye has no games against top 10 teams I believe and his accuracy and comp% slipped a good amount. Daniels and Williams were asked to do the most and performed well despite the 6-8 record with little help. Daniels and Williams clearly don't mind the big stage and neither does JJ.

There is a clear path for success with his game. Loss of Addison and others hurt but he did a great job keeping his team in every game to a point. You're going to need a rockstar HC. He's going to be a therapist, creative play designer with personality and experience. Williams coaching really failed him in a lot of ways early on and his success is a testimony to his gifts not coaches. He wasn't terrible in structure but they gave him little volume there. Lack of creativity in play design or variation off certain plays was a consistent issue. He's going to need someone that can hold his hand but also have Williams respect. So he can set boundaries and principles from the get go. It's extremely important Williams respects the HC early on. You don't want to let him run things bc of failed HC's early on. We've seen how quickly things spiral. Strong foundation early on is key! Specifically for Williams though
 
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