2024 NFL Draft Thread (Continued..)

[PatsFan2]

I like Milton; I just don’t like that Tennessee offensive system. It’s super simplistic.

I am intrigued with Spencer Rattler I see him as back-up with Starter potential down the road.

 

[Peachhead]

For all that speed Devontez Walker is sucking out loud.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I am not opposed to taking a QB at #3 if the right one is there, but you can’t be drafting with “QB beer goggles”. I am just not in the “QB or bust” camp, when there are superior players at other positions. Some teams do that and it statistically doesn’t work out.

I do like the idea of plundering a team who DOES have QB beer goggles, like Carolina did, and damaged themselves now and in the future with their ill-advised trade for Bryant Young.

The Bears got a huge gift that will set them up for years if they play their cards right, and I would love for the Pats to get a deal offered to them like the Bears got.

I would be more confident if they had a proven professional running their draft, and this post-BB era does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling yet.

As for double dipping on QBs, I am all for it.
BB did that many times, and the results were reasonably good. Many of those QBs ended up starting games in the NFL. There was one week a few years ago, when I believe seven QBs started who began with the Pats.

I would consider it “ beer goggles” if the top. qB prospects had 10-15 ratings and serious questions about were being raised, but so far no one has challenged those prospects with a legitimate arguments, but so far that hasn’t happened. I will discuss the young personnel guys when I get the chance.

 

[VrabelJr]

It looks like you are accusing people of being opposed to blindly taking a QB at #3, as having an irrational love of a WR, probably Harrison.

Maybe it’s possible that some of us understand the success rate of highly drafted QBs, and think there may be other options for building a successful team.

Sure Harrison could be a great pick, or picking a stud OT, but trading down with a desperate team for a haul is another option.

Sorry to disappoint your straw man opinion of anyone who is not solidly in your “take a QB at #3 no matter what” camp.

100% this. I don’t want to miss with the #3 pick and QB is the easiest position to miss on.

 

[PatsFan2]

100% this. I don’t want to miss with the #3 pick and QB is the easiest position to miss on.

Williams - Maye and Daniels could all be good maybe Great. Get the QB then weapons in the passing game.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I am not opposed to taking a QB at #3 if the right one is there, but you can’t be drafting with “QB beer goggles”. I am just not in the “QB or bust” camp, when there are superior players at other positions. Some teams do that and it statistically doesn’t work out.

I do like the idea of plundering a team who DOES have QB beer goggles, like Carolina did, and damaged themselves now and in the future with their ill-advised trade for Bryant Young.

The Bears got a huge gift that will set them up for years if they play their cards right, and I would love for the Pats to get a deal offered to them like the Bears got.

I would be more confident if they had a proven professional running their draft, and this post-BB era does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling yet.

As for double dipping on QBs, I am all for it.
BB did that many times, and the results were reasonably good. Many of those QBs ended up starting games in the NFL. There was one week a few years ago, when I believe seven QBs started who began with the Pats.

“ Beer goggles” applies to those who aren’t making strong arguments in favor of a player or position, and right now that applies to those arguing for OT, WR, at 3, or trading back, myself and others have made specific arguments for taking a top 3 QB , and addressing OT and WR after that.

As I have said numerous times if someone wants to try and make a strong argument against QB at 3 then go for it, so far no one has done so.

 

[Huckleberry1]

100% this. I don’t want to miss with the #3 pick and QB is the easiest position to miss on.

Not according to the best teams in football, and trying to limit it to just the top 3 instead of 1st round and top 10 QB’s is just cherry picking as disingenuous as it gets. But feel free to make the teams that won championships by building around a top 3 OT or WR.

 

[Huckleberry1]

100% this. I don’t want to miss with the #3 pick and QB is the easiest position to miss on.

I don’t want them to miss on their first round pick, so they should never make one again.

 

[slash83]

100% this. I don’t want to miss with the #3 pick and QB is the easiest position to miss on.

It’s also the most important position in all of sports. You have to take a chance on a qb @ 3, it’s nerve wracking but this is the position we’re in.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I would consider it “ beer goggles” if the top. qB prospects had 10-15 ratings and serious questions about were being raised, but so far no one has challenged those prospects with a legitimate arguments, but so far that hasn’t happened. I will discuss the young personnel guys when I get the chance.

There are serious questions about all of the top tier guys. Not nit-picking but real concerns and flaws. I outlined several for each in a post to you yesterday. None actually graded out as top 5 guys but will be drafted bc of the need for the position.

I'm not against picking Maye if he's there at 3 or someone in the later rounds. I just want a real offensive staff that can help said QB reach his potential. Bc all 3 if we're taking someone at 3, have serious concerns. Again I outlined the main ones for the big 3 and wrote up Pennix and Maye. So if you want we can talk about it but again the bigger point for me is coaching. I want someone capable of hhelping our guy hit every once of potential. Bc as soon as you're drafted the process starts. We know how fast things go and how things can go from good to bad. So having a staff capable of handling all this (development, system/install, coaching points etc) is absolutely key.

 

[Huckleberry1]

My issue with QB at 3 no matter what, is I hate the idea of taking a guy that high, but not picking between multiple prospects. If the QBs go 1,2 that only leaves one guy at 3; so by this method you need a QB so you just take him

Don't like reads? TAKE HIM. Don't like his bailing on progressions to run? TAKE HIM. Don't like that he seems to see/throw vs anticipate? TAKE HIM. Doesn't fit the offense your new coordinator wants to run? TAKE HIM.

(And yes the above is leaning on my bias against Daniels, but replace the prompts with whatever you like.)

Picking a different position at 3, or with a small trade down, let you pick between multiple players and pick the one that best fits what you are trying to mold your team into, and I think that is a better strategy to build a team, not JUST TAKE THE QB.

You mean like when the Steelers took the 3rd QB off the board, Roethlisberger, or the Bills took the 3rd QB off the board, Josh Allen?

You guys do realize that being afraid isn’t an actual argument, right? It’s just being afraid, which means you shouldn’t bother making a pick, because. they might not succeed. The truth, however, at least imo that you really want the WR, so you are making the fear argument because you can’t make a legitimate argument against the QB’s. Or at least no one has to this point. We will see if someone can make one?

 

[Huckleberry1]

There are serious questions about all of the top tier guys. Not nit-picking but real concerns and flaws. I outlined several for each in a post to you yesterday. None actually graded out as top 5 guys but will be drafted bc of the need for the position.

I'm not against picking Maye if he's there at 3 or someone in the later rounds. I just want a real offensive staff that can help said QB reach his potential. Bc all 3 if we're taking someone at 3, have serious concerns. Again I outlined the main ones for the big 3 and wrote up Pennix and Maye. So if you want we can talk about it but again the bigger point for me is coaching. I want someone capable of hhelping our guy hit every once of potential. Bc as soon as you're drafted the process starts. We know how fast things go and how things can go from good to bad. So having a staff capable of handling all this (development, system/install, coaching points etc) is absolutely key.

I never saw your post BGC, so I will read it when I have the chance, and I’m pretty certain that unlike the others here you will make good points, as you actually do the work to evaluate them. I will respond once I have read it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Once we get a competent offensive staff worthy of handling a top 3 pick, sure. All of these guys need their hand held big time.

The problem is we dont need a McVay or Shanny disciple. We actually need one of them (Shanny or McVay) to make a move like this week to it's potential. Or are really sure the next OC is on par with them. Who on this staff would you trust to develop a top 3 QB pick? Conversely there's absolutely no thinking with Marv. Hes plug and play. Obviously will need to be coached but there's far less of a curve with him. He's a better WR than all 3 are QB.

To the bolded.

Williams ran one of the most simplistic offenses I've watched in years and absolutely invited pressure every chance he got. There's no evidence he can run a NFL offense. He's getting drafted bc of his traits and gifts. Again invites pressure and isn't good under pressure. Sick arm and other attributes but he's not a generational QB and would have gone behind guys like Lawrence, Fields, Luck etc

I'll bet on Maye but there are concerns with him too. Hes liable to Mac Jones decision making blunders at times. His lower half mechanics - base, are very inconsistent. Accuracy issues. Took too many sacks.

Daniels is a 23 yo one hit wonder that did it with two 1st RD wrs and plenty of other talent at LSU. Other teammates of his did not care for him at all and he's not comfortable working the MOF.

If we have a real offensive staff I'm all for drafting a QB but rn there's little evidence this team can handle such a move. And it's not like we have a dominant OL or outstanding targets to really help a young QB.

I'm not against drafting one. I just want a much clearer picture on the offensive side of the staff.

Thanks for the info. I hadn’t heard anything about Daniel’s not getting along, but burrows had a similar trajectory at LSU.

 

[Headcase]

You mean like when the Steelers took the 3rd QB off the board, Roethlisberger, or the Bills took the 3rd QB off the board, Josh Allen?

You guys do realize that being afraid isn’t an actual argument, right? It’s just being afraid, which means you shouldn’t bother making a pick, because. they might not succeed. The truth, however, at least imo that you really want the WR, so you are making the fear argument because you can’t make a legitimate argument against the QB’s. Or at least no one has to this point. We will see if someone can make one?

It has nothing to do with being afraid, I'm a fan I don't have any real skin in this, it has to do with making sure you maximize assets, making sure you get guys you want and that fit what you want to do. Picking between two different things is always better than having one forced on you, right?

I don't even really want the WR, I think that is at its a heart a really impractical way to build a team, I would understand picking him because he is probably the most talented guy in the draft. And this team need talent.

As far as an actual argument:

I do not want Daniels, period. I don't like that he was a 5yr senior. I don't like he doesn't throw real well in the short and intermediate zones. I don't like he doesn't seem to read or throw with anticipation in those areas on the field. I don't like that he often bails on progressions when his first read isn't open and takes off running. I don't like that he doesn't protect himself when he is running, or that he seems really slight of build (curious to see what his combine weigh in looks like, he grew an inch and put on 25lbs between Arizona and LSU)

"You mean like when the Steelers took the 3rd QB off the board, Roethlisberger, or the Bills took the 3rd QB off the board, Josh Allen?"

In both those scenarios there were other QBs on the board to pick from that were expected to go in the same range, completely irrelevant.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I am intrigued with Spencer Rattler I see him as back-up with Starter potential down the road.

He should be our target if we look qb on day 2. Provided we are comfortable the attitude issues he had at Oklahoma are behind him.

 

[50-yard-line]

If the Pats don’t jump at a QB early, I like Rattler - and Hartman later on.

Don’t know why, but when I watched them this year, they just seemed like there’s something there to me.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It has nothing to do with being afraid, I'm a fan I don't have any real skin in this, it has to do with making sure you maximize assets, making sure you get guys you want and that fit what you want to do. Picking between two different things is always better than having one forced on you, right?

I don't even really want the WR, I think that is at its a heart a really impractical way to build a team, I would understand picking him because he is probably the most talented guy in the draft. And this team need talent.

As far as an actual argument:

I do not want Daniels, period. I don't like that he was a 5yr senior. I don't like he doesn't throw real well in the short and intermediate zones. I don't like he doesn't seem to read or throw with anticipation in those areas on the field. I don't like that he often bails on progressions when his first read isn't open and takes off running. I don't like that he doesn't protect himself when he is running, or that he seems really slight of build (curious to see what his combine weigh in looks like, he grew an inch and put on 25lbs between Arizona and LSU)

"You mean like when the Steelers took the 3rd QB off the board, Roethlisberger, or the Bills took the 3rd QB off the board, Josh Allen?"

In both those scenarios there were other QBs on the board to pick from that were expected to go in the same range, completely irrelevant.

I don’t agree with your assessment of Daniel’s, but that’s exactly what I was talking about in terms of making an argument. I don’t care about his age because of how long they play. And I think he can improve his short and mid range throws with good coaching, and I love his athleticism, and how it could open up their offense. But at least you are engaging in a discussion about him, instead of just throwing out meaningless phrases.

 

[Kdo5]

100% this. I don’t want to miss with the #3 pick and QB is the easiest position to miss on.

And what if Maye or Daniels was sitting there for us (the most QB needy team in the league) and they develop into an all-pro QBs? And we just come out of it as a wildcard hopeful with a pretty sweet WR?

I’ll take the risk for a guy who can legitimately turn the franchise around. A single star wide receiver is not that type of guy.

I understand the chance that we could hit on a QB later but the greater odds are to take the top prospects with the most talent.

 

[VrabelJr]

And what if Maye or Daniels was sitting there for us (the most QB needy team in the league) and they develop into an all-pro QBs? And we are sitting there as a wildcard hopeful with a pretty sweet WR?

I’ll take the risk for a guy who can legitimately turn the franchise around. A single star wide receiver is not that type of guy.

I understand the chance that we could hit on a QB later but the greater odds are to take the top prospects with the most talent.

FWIW I’m in the trade down and get an OT and more pieces camp.

 

[PatsFan2]

It has nothing to do with being afraid, I'm a fan I don't have any real skin in this, it has to do with making sure you maximize assets, making sure you get guys you want and that fit what you want to do. Picking between two different things is always better than having one forced on you, right?

I don't even really want the WR, I think that is at its a heart a really impractical way to build a team, I would understand picking him because he is probably the most talented guy in the draft. And this team need talent.

As far as an actual argument:

I do not want Daniels, period. I don't like that he was a 5yr senior. I don't like he doesn't throw real well in the short and intermediate zones. I don't like he doesn't seem to read or throw with anticipation in those areas on the field. I don't like that he often bails on progressions when his first read isn't open and takes off running. I don't like that he doesn't protect himself when he is running, or that he seems really slight of build (curious to see what his combine weigh in looks like, he grew an inch and put on 25lbs between Arizona and LSU)

"You mean like when the Steelers took the 3rd QB off the board, Roethlisberger, or the Bills took the 3rd QB off the board, Josh Allen?"

In both those scenarios there were other QBs on the board to pick from that were expected to go in the same range, completely irrelevant.

Dam the 3rd QB have good history already. P.s. D Watson was the Third QB in 2017.