2019 NE CAP SPACE

[mgteich]

I don't think this move is soley because of Ghost

The Ghost's contract could be done without Gilmore's restructure, but it might have been close.

 

[mgteich]

We don't move money forward into future years a lot, as you say. This year, the strategy makes more sense, since we have over $85M in 2020 cap space, and we don't know what the 2021 rules will be as part of the new contract.

I don't hate it and i will explain why.

We don't use this ''method'' a lot.

If we use the money with wisdom it will not do any harm. If we don't use this extra money at all (Brady extension) will roll over, the only problem of doing this is spend like crazy.

 

[mgteich]

Most of us find Miguel a better source of cap information.

Why do the 2019 Patriots have so little cap space? | Boston Sports Journal

Boston.com had a good write up about the salary cap situation for the patriots. In it, they broke down the top 51. The first number is their salary this year and the second number is their cap hit.

Where did all the Patriots’ salary cap space go? - The Boston Globe

Top 51A look at the Patriots' top 51 players in cash and cap spending*
Position Player Cash Cap
QB Tom Brady $15,000,000 $27,000,000
CB Stephon Gilmore $10,000,000 $14,837,500
S Devin McCourty $9,500,000 $13,435,000
TE Rob Gronkowski $10,000,000 $11,859,375
LB Donta Hightower $7,875,000 $10,945,313
OL Marcus Cannon $6,150,000 $7,456,250
OL Shaq Mason $5,000,000 $7,275,000
DL Michael Bennett $7,200,000 $7,200,000
LB Kyle Van Noy $4,750,000 $6,291,668
WR Julian Edelman $3,000,000 $5,410,949
S Duron Harmon $3,250,000 $4,750,000
RB James White $3,250,000 $4,625,000
DL Lawrence Guy $3,500,000 $4,466,666
CB Jason McCourty $6,000,000 $4,250,000
S Patrick Chung $2,400,000 $4,175,000
OL David Andrews $2,400,000 $3,500,000
CB Jonathan Jones $3,095,000 $3,095,000
QB Brian Hoyer $3,000,000 $3,000,000
RB Rex Burkhead $2,250,000 $3,000,000
ST Matt Slater $2,400,000 $2,900,000
ST Nate Ebner $2,200,000 $2,787,500
OL Isaiah Wynn $1,000,087 $2,600,434
OL Joe Thuney $2,025,000 $2,218,357
RB Sony Michel $917,577 $2,187,885
DL Mike Pennel $2,400,000 $2,150,000
LB Elandon Roberts $2,025,000 $2,050,089
WR Josh Gordon $2,025,000 $2,025,000
LB John Simon $2,150,000 $1,775,000
ST Brandon Bolden $2,200,000 $1,700,000
RB James Develin $1,400,000 $1,600,000
ST Terrence Brooks $1,700,000 $1,450,000
ST Brandon King $1,175,000 $1,359,375
TE Matt Lacosse $1,400,000 $1,225,000
CB Duke Dawson $695,676 $1,078,381
WR Maurice Harris $1,000,000 $962,500
ST Joe Cardona $825,000 $955,000
DL Derek Rivers $680,000 $880,724
DL Deatrich Wise $645,000 $790,140
DL David Parry $760,000 $743,750
WR Bruce Ellington $895,000 $735,000
OL James Ferentz $720,000 $720,000
OL Ted Karras $720,000 $720,000
S Obi Melifonwu $825,000 $693,438
OL Brian Schwenke $895,000 $686,250
DL Ufomba Kamalu $745,000 $657,500
TE Stephen Anderson $650,000 $655,000
TE Jacob Hollister $645,000 $648,334
DL Adam Butler $645,000 $646,668
LB Ja'Whaun Bentley $570,000 $645,988
OL Cole Croston $645,000 $645,000
CB Keion Crossen $570,000 $588,598

 

[jah]

You don't like restructures because you believe that a player's cap hit is relevant to decision-making.

I don't know what you're even trying to say here. You don't want a non QB on the cap for almost $20M. I don't think you're one of the "cap is crap" people, so how do you see this as anything other than a mortgage?

 

[mgteich]

Brady's extension + this Gilmore restructure is exactly that. Add in a potential Shaq Mason restructure if something else comes up.

and Bennett ($3.6M) and Cannon ($3.0M) and Hightower ($3.0M). Mason is $2.6M. There are many more smaller possibilities (for example, Harmon, White and Guy are $.8M each)

 

[Ring 6]

I understand that they eventually needed more than 2.5 million in cap space, but the draft is not for another five weeks. Is there some salary cap compliance deadline prior to the draft of which I am not aware?

Well there is a limit to how much space can be created.

 

[mgteich]

Well there is a limit to how much space can be created.

That limit is about $20M in restructures, including Gilmore's.

 

[Ring 6]

Money for draft picks, sure. But you don’t need to worry about players 52, 53, IR and mid season pickups until September. No need to rush that decision now if you don’t need to; it just might work itself out naturally (i.e. someone like Guy, Pennel, Burkhead, etc. looking like crap in preseason and being outplayed by a rookie) or it might now. Clearly more space will be needed then. But if you don’t absolutely need the space right now, no need to box yourself into a decision now.

You need to worry about them now because money doesn’t fall out of the sky.
If a keep player with a high cap number “looks like crap” then we will need even more money to find a replacement.
You are boxing yourself into a decision by using up everything now and forcing a future move you may nit want to make because you are out of cap.

 

[Ring 6]

The top 51 rule states that from the beginning of the League Year (March) until the day before the first regular season game, only the highest 51 highest P5 (“Paragraph 5” of a standard NFL contract, which is typically the player’s yearly base salary) player contracts amounts will be included and counted against a team’s Salary Cap. Each team must be under the Salary Cap by the first regular season game !!!!!!!!!

Not sure why you posted this in response to my post.

 

[Ring 6]

That limit is about $20M in restructures, including Gilmore's.

If you think the patriots are going to restructure every possible contact and push the max money they can into the future you will be disappointed.
Plus that 20 mill # is inflated.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady's extension + this Gilmore restructure is exactly that. Add in a potential Shaq Mason restructure if something else comes up.

Yeah that will give us the space to operate but people want to turn around and use the Gilmore money on a free agent.
I’d be shocked if we restructure masons contract the year after we write it. Not our standard MO.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Not sure why you posted this in response to my post.

Because in your post you seemed confident that this restructure was intended to give them enough cap space to pay for bills that won’t arrive for weeks, rather than acquiring a new player (in addition to resigning Gost). It is more probable than not that you are wrong and the illogical nature of your contention sparked frustration all the way down in Brazil. The bold print and multiple exclamation marks may have been a bit much. We will probably know the answer within the next 24 to 48 hours.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Not sure why you posted this in response to my post.

You said that:

We still need money for draft picks, players 52 and 53, Ir players, a practice squad and in season pick ups.
This isn’t extra money to spend it’s one step toward getting out of cap poverty.

We don't need money NOW for that. This is extra money to spend, to sign picks and players if they want to.

 

[manxman2601]

I think there are probably three more non-draft moves to make

1. Sign Ghost
2. Trade for/sign WR
3. Like the idea of trading for Solomon Thomas

Can our new cap number with the Gilmore restructure be enough to make these things happen or does more need to be done.

Note: ovviously the WR can’t be too expensive.

 

[Ring 6]

Because in your post you seemed confident that this restructure was intended to give them enough cap space to pay for bills that won’t arrive for weeks, rather than acquiring a new player (in addition to resigning Gost). It is more probable than not that you are wrong and the illogical nature of your contention sparked frustration all the way down in Brazil. The bold print and multiple exclamation marks may have been a bit much. We will probably know the answer within the next 24 to 48 hours.

The restructure is part of the overall cap picture. To say it’s only about signing someone today and ignore what’s coming is silly and to say things needed later in the cap year are irrelevant is denial.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

You need to worry about them now because money doesn’t fall out of the sky.
If a keep player with a high cap number “looks like crap” then we will need even more money to find a replacement.
You are boxing yourself into a decision by using up everything now and forcing a future move you may nit want to make because you are out of cap.

Yes, you need to worry about cap space - from a planning perspective.

No, you don’t need to make a move now. You don’t actually need to make the move until it’s necessary.

How does leaving your cap-space creation options open = boxing yourself into a decision? What the Patriots have done so far is basically purchase what they feel they need, and defer making the decision on how to pay for it until the last possible moment. Why would you pay for it now if you don’t have to - if what looks like the best method of payment on March 22 isn’t the best method of payment on September 2, and you don’t actually need to make a decision until September 2?

 

[mgteich]

I don't know what you're even trying to say here. You don't want a non QB on the cap for almost $20M. I don't think you're one of the "cap is crap" people, so how do you see this as anything other than a mortgage?

The contract below is for a player we want to pay $8M a year. Note that his salary/new money for Year 3 and year 4 are $8M a year. I presume that the player is worth the $8M a year throughout his contract, although the team could certainly bail without penalty after 2 years.

EXAMPLE CONTRACT $32M/4 AAV=$8M; cash over first 2 years=$8 per year
$10M - bonus over 4 years ($2.5M per year)
$1M - 2016 salary; cap=$3.5M
$5M - 2017 salary ; cap=$7.5M
$8M - 2018 salary; cap=$10.5M
$8M - 2019 salary; cap=$10.5M
==================
Now, presume that there were 2 restructures, one in 2017 to move $4M forward, and in 2018 to move another $6M.

2019 cap = $8M salary + $2.5M orig bonus + $1.6M for 2017 restructure + $3M for the 2018 restructure for a TOTAL CAP OF $15.1M.
=======================
BOTTOM LINE
For me, OPTION 1) is unreasonable.

1) Many here would look at $15.1M and conclude that the player wasn't worth $15.1M
and should be cut.

2) Others would say that this an $8M player and worth it and nothing should be done, since his compensation is $8M for his 2019 services, a reasonable number.

3) Others would consider signing the player to a 3 year extension, with a $6M bonus and a $2M salary resulting in a cap savings of $4M and with the player getting his same $8M.

Of course, the 2020 and 2021 contract would be negotiated and irrelevant to the 2019 cap. The team would want to sign this deal even with $10M and $12M salaries in 2020 and 2021 to get the cap savings. Alternatively, there could be lower salaries and a roster bonus due on march 1, a reasonable idea for both the team and the player.

 

[Ring 6]

You said that:

We still need money for draft picks, players 52 and 53, Ir players, a practice squad and in season pick ups.
This isn’t extra money to spend it’s one step toward getting out of cap poverty.

We don't need money NOW for that. This is extra money to spend, to sign picks and players if they want to.

But we eventually need the money and this was one of the few ways to generate it.
When you look at everything that can REASONABLY be freed up if we go to zero cap space today with signings we have major issues coming.
Head in the sand cap management isn’t very patriot like.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, you need to worry about cap space - from a planning perspective.

No, you don’t need to make a move now. You don’t actually need to make the move until it’s necessary.

How does leaving your cap-space creation options open = boxing yourself into a decision?

Spending all of your cap space and not having enough to operate through a season is boxing yourself in

What the Patriots have done so far is basically purchase what they feel they need, and defer making the decision on how to pay for it until the last possible moment. Why would you pay for it now if you don’t have to - if what looks like the best method of payment on March 22 isn’t the best method of payment on September 2, and you don’t actually need to make a decision until September 2?

You are missing the point. There is a lot of cap space needed down the road. Assuming none of it is from what is available now is obtuse.
They can’t just wish new cap money.
When you look at the big picture there isn’t reasonably enough space to clear to handle those other expenses if you took it down to zero today, meaning anywhere from some to all of the Gilmore money is for future needs.

 

[Sciz]

Money for draft picks, sure. But you don’t need to worry about players 52, 53, IR and mid season pickups until September. No need to rush that decision now if you don’t need to; it just might work itself out naturally (i.e. someone like Guy, Pennel, Burkhead, etc. looking like crap in preseason and being outplayed by a rookie) or it might now. Clearly more space will be needed then. But if you don’t absolutely need the space right now, no need to box yourself into a decision now.

Most of Burkhead’s salary is guaranteed, so you save basically enough to pay for a minimum salary replacement and that’s it.