2014 Draft Prospect Thread

[All22PatsFan]

Depth at CB is always good, and I expect Browner would get used some at outside CB in press-man coverage. But I think he'd thrive in a SS role with a guy like Revis to lock down half of the field and a guy like McCourty to guard the deep stuff.

Here's a nice video by Matt Bowen (who also writes for the National Football Post, and who was a former NFL CB) on how Darrelle Revis will allow the Pats to do some interesting coverage stuff. Looking at Bowen's analysis, Browner would fit perfectly into the SS role, who plays a pivotal role in cover 3 and cover 7 packages and who drops into deep coverage at times:

How the New England Patriots Can Maximize Darrelle Revis' Elite Coverage Skills | Bleacher Report

The Seahawks used a ton of these kind of schemes. Bucky Brooks had a nice discussion of their cover-1, cover-1 robber, and cover-3 shell against the Broncos:

Seattle Seahawks walloped Denver Broncos with simple scheme - NFL.com

I think Browner would thrive in this kind of role, and that his addition would have a synergistic effect with the Revis signing; but I'm fine letting BB figure out how to best use him.

From all the games I watched he struggled in zone coverages and in off coverages.I think he would be terrible at SS. I think the Pats are at the best in C1 espically with Revis and McCourty, but I see Browner strictly as a CB, he can line up against TEs like Julius Thomas. Also I don't see him as a robber, he doesn't have the quickness.

 

[mayoclinic]

From all the games I watched he struggled in zone coverages and in off coverages.I think he would be terrible at SS. I think the Pats are at the best in C1 espically with Revis and McCourty, but I see Browner strictly as a CB, he can line up against TEs like Julius Thomas. Also I don't see him as a robber, he doesn't have the quickness.

We disagree. And Browner has much better quickness and agility than Kam Chancellor, who struggled in that role. Obviously, there would be some adjustment. As I said, I'll let BB figure it out, assuming Browner signs.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Guys, I'd like someone to go over Ra'Shede Hageman with a fine toothed comb. Maybe you glanced at him before. But right now with the Wilfork situation and with the fact that we have Revis in the fold, I believe that DL need escalates even further than before. The other guy I considered was Tuitt, but most mocks have him as an early 2nd round value.

So draftniks, look him over again and report back in, is Hageman worth our pick at #29 or should we trade down and get Tuitt or ASJ?

Hageman:
profile
Ra'Shede Hageman Draft Profile ? NFL.com

video
Ra'Shede Hageman - 2014 NFL Draft profile - YouTube

Tuitt:
profile
Stephon Tuitt Draft Profile ? NFL.com

injury risk?
2014 NFL Draft: Stephon Tuitt's Foot Fracture Explained - Battle Red Blog

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I didn't think it needing saying.

No, I mean you didn't say anything like it. If you felt the same why would you write "Not drafting a projection in the first round thins it out pretty thoroughly?" That implies there are a some players that are not projections -- the exact opposite of what I said.

Then you listed off a bunch of upside players, like Barr, Poe, and Robinson as examples of projections. From that I inferred that you see only upside players as projections. Why pick Barr instead of Mack, Poe instead of Nix, and Robinson instead of Matthews? They're all projections.

Finally, you said "Not getting at you, just pointing out that people draft projections in the first round all the time." again implying that some players are not projections.

I don't know what you think. I only know what you said and it sure wasn't what I said -- that every play is a projection.

 

[manxman2601]

No, I mean you didn't say anything like it. If you felt the same why would you write "Not drafting a projection in the first round thins it out pretty thoroughly?" That implies there are a some players that are not projections -- the exact opposite of what I said.

Then you listed off a bunch of upside players, like Barr, Poe, and Robinson as examples of projections. From that I inferred that you see only upside players as projections. Why pick Barr instead of Mack, Poe instead of Nix, and Robinson instead of Matthews? They're all projections.

Finally, you said "Not getting at you, just pointing out that people draft projections in the first round all the time." again implying that some players are not projections.

I don't know what you think. I only know what you said and it sure wasn't what I said -- that every play is a projection.

Ok.

............

 

[zimmy]

Guys, I'd like someone to go over Ra'Shede Hageman with a fine toothed comb. Maybe you glanced at him before. But right now with the Wilfork situation and with the fact that we have Revis in the fold, I believe that DL need escalates even further than before. The other guy I considered was Tuitt, but most mocks have him as an early 2nd round value.

So draftniks, look him over again and report back in, is Hageman worth our pick at #29 or should we trade down and get Tuitt or ASJ?

Hageman:
profile
Ra'Shede Hageman Draft Profile ? NFL.com

video
Ra'Shede Hageman - 2014 NFL Draft profile - YouTube

Tuitt:
profile
Stephon Tuitt Draft Profile ? NFL.com

injury risk?
2014 NFL Draft: Stephon Tuitt's Foot Fracture Explained - Battle Red Blog

I'm no expert by any means but I'll give you my impressions of Hageman after watching him. He's a guy you would draft at 29 based on upside not current production. With work he has the potential to be a game changing defensive lineman.

However his best position may be as a 3-4 DE. He makes impact plays, mostly against the pass. He has surprising athleticism for a guy his size. Has a good burst and is quick off the line. However, he's inconsistent, goes missing for long stretches of plays at times. He also gets washed out against the run quite often and plays too high. I'd worry about plugging him in at DT straight away and he's certainly no Wilfork replacement.

I understand he also didn't play all the time for Minnesota so may have conditioing issues?

With some work in the Pats system he could be a beast, think in the Mo Wilkerson mould. Someone's probably going to take him in the 1st round, not sure its us though.

 

[Luxusdk]

IFFFFF a Mallett trade happens then i could see Patriots take both really.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Guys, I'd like someone to go over Ra'Shede Hageman with a fine toothed comb. Maybe you glanced at him before. But right now with the Wilfork situation and with the fact that we have Revis in the fold, I believe that DL need escalates even further than before. The other guy I considered was Tuitt, but most mocks have him as an early 2nd round value.

So draftniks, look him over again and report back in, is Hageman worth our pick at #29 or should we trade down and get Tuitt or ASJ?

Hageman:
profile
Ra'Shede Hageman Draft Profile ? NFL.com

video
Ra'Shede Hageman - 2014 NFL Draft profile - YouTube

Tuitt:
profile
Stephon Tuitt Draft Profile ? NFL.com

injury risk?
2014 NFL Draft: Stephon Tuitt's Foot Fracture Explained - Battle Red Blog

I'm a huge Ra'Shede Hageman fan, he was my first binky of this draft season (along with Trey Millard). I would have no hesitation drafting him at 29 because even though he is a risk, he is raw and has bust potential, we simply don't get a chance to draft players with his potential at the end of the 1st round very often. I have no doubt he has the highest ceiling of any defensive player in this draft not named Jadaveon Clowney.

He is certainly raw, but when you look at his background its easy to understand why. He was recruited as a TE, moved to DE early on at Minnesota and has only been playing DT for 3 years. But that doesn't begin to tell half of his story.

If it wasn't for Michael Oher they would be making a movie about Ra'Shede Hageman. While they have similar stories, Hageman has arguably faced even more challenges trying to make it not just in the NFL, make make something out of his life. John Rosengren had a great piece about him in November chronicling Hageman's childhood and path to the NFL. It really gives great insight into his troubled childhood, issues and anger growing up, learning disabilities and obstacles he has had to overcome.

Ra?Shede?s Road: The improbable path that took Ra?Shede Hageman from foster child to a top NFL prospect - SBNation.com


While looking at his background may bring up some red flags for him as a prospect, understanding his past gives me more confidence that New England is the perfect environment for him to thrive. He has a history of anger issues and learning disabilities, but he has also show that he will work hard to get where he needs to be to achieve his goals. He responded well to the tough, structured environment coach Kill implemented for him, likely a similar one he would see in New England. I think putting him in a professional environment with guidance, professional coaching and a single focus could really give him a chance to flourish. Having him focus on only football instead of all of the other issues he has had to face in his life could quickly take him from the raw, physical specimen to the elite, disruptive force his potential suggests he could be.

I'm no expert by any means but I'll give you my impressions of Hageman after watching him. He's a guy you would draft at 29 based on upside not current production. With work he has the potential to be a game changing defensive lineman.

However his best position may be as a 3-4 DE. He makes impact plays, mostly against the pass. He has surprising athleticism for a guy his size. Has a good burst and is quick off the line. However, he's inconsistent, goes missing for long stretches of plays at times. He also gets washed out against the run quite often and plays too high. I'd worry about plugging him in at DT straight away and he's certainly no Wilfork replacement.

I understand he also didn't play all the time for Minnesota so may have conditioing issues?

With some work in the Pats system he could be a beast, think in the Mo Wilkerson mould. Someone's probably going to take him in the 1st round, not sure its us though.

I completely agree that you would draft him on upside because we just don't get a chance to draft guys with this kind of potential. I think Mo Wilkerson is a great comparison for the type of player he could be and its one I've used before. He can play anywhere along the defensive line in any scheme and offer amazing versatility.

He certainly has some technique and consistency issues he has to work on. Fortunately I think these are things that are fixable with good coaching, and like I said above I think he could develop quickly in an environment like New England. You just can't teach 6'6" 315lbs with great athleticism and freakish explosion. I think Tommy Kelly would be a perfect guy for him to learn from here, not only how to be a great defensive tackle, but how to be a professional.

The conditioning thing is somewhat of a concern but I also think its something that has been a bit overblown. Minnesota substitutes their defensive lineman a lot, whether its Hageman or anyone else. I think some people mistake that for him having a lack of conditioning and not being able to play hard. He also faced constant double teams and there is only so much a DT can do in that situation. In the end as fans we only have a limited amount of information to go off. From what we know about Hageman I would be willing to take a chance on him at #29 because as you said, he has the potential to be a game changer on the defensive line.

 

[Luxusdk]

Donno if age can be a red flag, but he's 24 before he even takes a snap. Do to that age i wouldn't use a 1 round pick on him. Love hes upside, but he might be 27 by then.

 

[patchick]

Piggybacking on the Hageman question, is anybody high on Stephon Tuitt? I hadn't focused on him because my initial reading was "5-technique all the way," but I'd be curious to hear other takes.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Donno if age can be a red flag, but he's 24 before he even takes a snap. Do to that age i wouldn't use a 1 round pick on him. Love hes upside, but he might be 27 by then.

To me 24 isn't an issue. If he was 26 or 27 it would be a concern but he isn't that much older than a lot of other guys in the draft.

 

[Luxusdk]

Piggybacking on the Hageman question, is anybody high on Stephon Tuitt? I hadn't focused on him because my initial reading was "5-technique all the way," but I'd be curious to hear other takes.

Watched all ND games last season and i was raelly high on him. Was sure he would be 1 pick this year ( seymour 2.0 )
This year he have played hurt and out of shape, so you really have to use 2012 tape on him. By doing so then i still beleave he's a Patriot, question is round.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Piggybacking on the Hageman question, is anybody high on Stephon Tuitt? I hadn't focused on him because my initial reading was "5-technique all the way," but I'd be curious to hear other takes.

I'm admittedly biased against Tuitt because I had such high expectations of him going into last season and he was a big disappointment. Whether it was the weight, the injury or thats just who he is I don't know.I agree with Luxusdk that his 2012 tape was much better.

I think he shares some similarities with Hageman in they are both boom or bust guys with elite size for the position. I don't think Tuitt has quite the upside Hageman does because he isn't quite the athlete (although still very good, especially for his size) and he isn't quite as versatile. I think he is much better suited to DE than DT which hurts his value a bit, but in the end the question is going to be which guy are you getting. Personally I wouldn't take him until the end of the 2nd round, and that is based on upside more than production. Unfortunately I think someone is going to fall in love with him and take him much higher.

Just a little OT, why is it now that we have moved away from the 2-gap 3-4 that all of these perfect 3-4 prospects come along? It seemed we were looking for years for the 6'5" 300lb+ DE and now they seem to be much more prevalent. If we were still running a 3-4 I would love a DL of Tuitt-Nix-Hageman.

 

[Luxusdk]

If the was the case i would rather have Daniel McCullers as NT. You keep talking about upside, specialy on Hageman. AS NT McCullers upside seems unlimited?

 

[State]

All I know is when the Michigan State Spartans played Minnesota, Hageman's play stood out as being much better than any other defensive lineman's of the ENTIRE season. At one point he skied with both arms up, knocking down the pass of State's 6'4" QB like the Giants did to Brady in the SB a few years ago. That's when I thought that Belichick is going to really like this player.

It's like Richard Seymour Part Deux.

I mean Stanford's defense in the Rose Bowl or Notre Dame's had _no one_ on his level that I watched. The inconsistency does worry me, but when he's bringin' it, you're not in Kansas any more, Tonto.

 

[manxman2601]

Long shot UDFA predicition here.


Micah Hatfield, WR, Oregon State.
6-1, 181 lbs.

Hear of him? No? Not surprising, he had 20 catches in his entire college career. So why do I think he might be a long shot for us?

This:

Buzz building at Oregon St pro-day for the Beavers other receiver, Micah Hatfield; 4.41 forty, 6.38 three cone and 38-inch vert...

 

[mayoclinic]

Dan Kadar of Mocking the Draft profile Aaron Donald:

Aaron Donald 2014 NFL Draft scouting report - SBNation.com

Nothing new, but a decent read.

 

[mayoclinic]

Long shot UDFA predicition here.


Micah Hatfield, WR, Oregon State.
6-1, 181 lbs.

Hear of him? No? Not surprising, he had 20 catches in his entire college career. So why do I think he might be a long shot for us?

This:

Two things of interest:

1. He turns 25 in August.

2. He also played DB in high school.

He missed a ton of time at Oregon St. due to various injuries.

 

[everlong]

I think Hageman problem is technique and not effort and is fixable. I'd be fine with him at 29. I've come around on Tuitt a bit after watching some of his 2012 tape but I still wouldnt draft him before the middle of the second round. If it was the weight and he can return to form he could be a steal but it's too big of a risk to go higher. Funny to think if they took both and Justin Ellis and all three hit there potential that would be a hell of a 3-4 front.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think Hageman problem is technique and not effort and is fixable. I'd be fine with him at 29. I've come around on Tuitt a bit after watching some of his 2012 tape but I still wouldnt draft him before the middle of the second round. If it was the weight and he can return to form he could be a steal but it's too big of a risk to go higher. Funny to think if they took both and Justin Ellis and all three hit there potential that would be a hell of a 3-4 front.

Too bad we don't run a 3-4 any more. Athletic DT's is what we need. Not the NG type like Nix.