2010 NFL MVP Debate (merged several times)

[Bella*chick]

Great post. I've been wanting to rant about Vick for some time, but I thought I'd stick with the on-the-field stuff. Now that the race is virtually over, I'd like to say that I agree with you.

To think that a person could be so cruel to DOGS is just sickening. I've been a dog lover my whole life; how could anyone ever want to hurt them? They'll do anything for people; they'd run in front of cars and sacrifice their lives to help their owners. They are unselfish, always trying to please, never bringing anything but joy and laughs. I think Vick is so disgusting I can't even watch his games.

I completely agree that this guy is not "rehabilitated" and probably never will be. This is a typical media BS bit that they are trying to jam down our throats. When a guy wins games, he's suddenly changed. Why? Because he smiles, says the right things, and hasn't been convicted of another felony yet.

My wife has just gotten into football this year, and she noticed a look on his face when his attitude suddenly changed during locker room footage of the Giants game. She turned to me and said "this guy is really evil." It was true; behind the scenes, you could really sense the anger and wickedness that he has in his heart. His vocal tone and facial expressions just completely changed.

Anyway, I'm glad he failed last night, and I'm glad he is injured. I hope he suffers a career ending injury and finishes his life with nothing. We'll see if he still does PETA commercials and charity work once he has no incentive besides his own personal redemption.

I agree with you and your wife. I absolutely loathe Vick and I could care less that he is injured. I love how, earlier in the season, Vick was asked if everyone should forgive him now and instead of giving the answer I expected, which was somewhere along the lines of "I hope people can find it in their hearts....I understand if they can't yet but I will keep trying to earn it....", he said yes of course, we all should because God has. Like he can even presume to know what God has or hasn't done. I bet he gets that entitlement from St. Dungy himself, who acts like he chats with God on the phone every day.

This guy is an arrogant loser.

 

[Haley]

Are we really going to drift into the morality of the societal norm of eating meat in some horribly misguided attempt to justify criminal cruelty to animals?

Priorities, please.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

If Vick killed those dogs for food I would cut him some sociatal or cultural slack... He abused them inside and outside of the ring for nothing more than perverse enjoyment. You can callously kill an animal for no reason without torturing it first. Rule one for hunters in enlightened societies is to go for the clean kill. What he and his cohorts did goes beyond even engaging in the sick so-called sport of dog fighting. Serial killers start out torturing defenseless animals before they move on to more socially significant prey. This is the guy who also spread sexually transmitted disease with impunity under an assumed name. At a time when he had the means to do neither.

Anyone who thinks his turnaround is anything more than a desperation driven attempt to get his life(style) back is beyond naive. The only thing he's truly remorseful for is what he cost himself. The rest of it is just contrition born of financial necessity. Once his NFL days are over, and that can't come soon enough IMO, the contrition and remorse will be history too. Right now he's like the parolee with the ankle bracelet...Like the scum who convinced the parole board despite three life sentances he deserved another chance, who took out a 60 year old local cop here on Christmas eve...'cause he needed some $$$. Fortunately he's not around today to convince any more fools that his surroundings and poor parenting and peer pressure and hood loyalty induced lousy choice of companions led him down the wrong path against his better judgement...'cause he's really a good person who just made a bad decision... Vick had lots of good role models and mentors knocking themselves out to turn his life around long before he finally met the one entity who could (and only via consequence)...the Federal government. Once he's off their radar he will revert to form. He's already begun to unravel on the field. Off the field will eventually follow.

Meh. Sounds like wishful thinking on your part. But i guess i understand your anger. But as far as the inner city goes you may not understand fully the plight of people unless you have been there at some point in your life.

You sound like someone who really doesnt understand that side of the spectrum and god bless you for it. I wish I was never born here at times but it's made me who i am. I have never killed animals or otherwise but i can't project the things ive overcome onto others. Situations are different and thats what makes people who they become. We could talk about this all day I had two loving parents even in the midst of all the madness and mayhem that the ghetto can be and thats what kept me grounded. I feel bad for those that didn't and i saw it on a daily basis. I have lost many friends to the street and they dont deserve to be trivialized just because you don't understand it. Some good some not so good. But i can tell you they all wished to be born some where else. with loving parents no drug problems higher education etc.

 

[Fixit]

I said i wasn't comparing the two, and i didn't The comparison was directed towards pherein who compared vick's actions to a serial killer's read his post.

I stated that you can't be compared to someone who murders people when the thing you killed is food in some cultures.

People are still food in some cultures. In this one, too, if you believe in the transubstantiation of the Eucharist.

Just sayin'.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Are we really going to drift into the morality of the societal norm of eating meat in some horribly misguided attempt to justify criminal cruelty to animals?

Priorities, please.

Alot of vegans would say what happens to your burger before it reaches your plate is animal cruelty as well.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

People are still food in some cultures. In this one, too, if you believe in the transubstantiation of the Eucharist.

Just sayin'.

Lmao. This was right on time

 

[JR4]

.....

The problem with setting that precedent is, this is a christian nation and all that jazz so now your saying that forgiveness and second chances is good but not practical? America can't have it both ways. People deserve second chances.

There is a problem here. Absolute forgiveness by a divine person who
knows what you are really thinking and even knows if you're fooling yourself is possible.
For humans this the best we can do is conditional forgiveness.
You know the saying " fool me once shame on you ; fool me twice shame on me."
A person says I'm changed, I've changed how I think about what's right and wrong. How do you know there has really been a change?
The only way I know to find out is let time pass and see how that person
behaves. In the mean time don't let the person fool you the second time.
Again, if you cheat on your wife she may forgive you but it will be awhile
for her to trust you, if ever.
Forgiveness of grievous actions does not mean all consequences of those
actions are eradicated.

 

[upstater1]

Dude mostly every one sympathized and wanted vick to play.

I remember watching a eagles game last year and right when mcnabb had a bad play, fans would chant "we want vick".

You're talking about homer Eagles fans?

I thought we were talking about the amount of support Vick has gotten from non-Eagles fans.

 

[sieglo]

You buy cheap meat, and you are perpetuating the torture of animals.

Unavoidable fact.

Even if this is true, there's a huge gulf between this and actually taking pleasure from animals' pain.

It's amazing that people can't see this.

Taking pleasure from pain is sociopath territory.

 

[upstater1]

Are we really going to drift into the morality of the societal norm of eating meat in some horribly misguided attempt to justify criminal cruelty to animals?

Priorities, please.

Who is justifying cruelty to animals?

I think you're confused.

 

[upstater1]

Even if this is true, there's a huge gulf between this and actually taking pleasure from animals' pain.

It's amazing that people can't see this.

Taking pleasure from pain is sociopath territory.

The animal being tortured is still being tortured.

 

[Haley]

Are we really going to drift into the morality of the societal norm of eating meat in some horribly misguided attempt to justify criminal cruelty to animals?

Alot of vegans would say what happens to your burger before it reaches your plate is animal cruelty as well.

So, I guess the answer to my question is yes. :bricks:

As you do not label yourself as a vegan, you clearly do not see eating as cruelty. So the only logical conclusion is that you are defending Vick's right to abuse animals for sport and claiming it should not be criminal. Is this in fact your argument? Or are you the above mentioned vegan?

 

[upstater1]

So, I guess the answer to my question is yes. :bricks:

As you do not label yourself as a vegan, you clearly do not see eating as cruelty. So the only logical conclusion is that you are defending Vick's right to abuse animals for sport and claiming it should not be criminal. Is this in fact your argument? Or are you the above mentioned vegan?

There are other options that you're not mentioning.

Like, being a carnivore who only eats the meat of animals who are not tortured.

 

[sieglo]

The animal being tortured is still being tortured.

Way to miss the point.

Let me rephrase it.

Vick has proven that he is a sociopathic monster by his behavior.

Americans are not all sociopathic monsters because every now and then they enjoy a Big Mac.

 

[coolguy]

The animal being tortured is still being tortured.

LET ME ONE UP YOU!!!

Do you consider horse racing to be torture?
11.5 horses die out of every 1000 starts in the US.
2 beating a horse with a whip/stick
3 they inject horses with steroids and all kinds of chemicals that damages their legs just so they can win a race.
4 most of them get sent to slaughter house when they become "useless"
5 jockeys wear out a horse to the point they break down during the race and have to be put down
6 most of them spend most of their lives lock away until its time to race

That sounds like torture to me

Dog fighting is worse than horse racing , but if you look at the two they really aren't that different.

 

[Lansdowne]

You can't overlook one thing: the criminal justice system in this country is wildly distorted. When you look at the rate of incarceration for similar crimes committed according to race, you can't come to any other conclusion. So obviously the African-American community is going to show sympathy for a man who was convicted under the current system. You would too if your own skin color automatically meant that you were more subject to incarceration than others.

I agree the criminal system is out of whack and understand the hostility and skepticism, especially by people of color (see: O.J. Simpson Trial). But I think it's more than just skin color, it's also social status. If Vick wasn't a rich superstar athlete, he might have gotten longer than just two years. If he was some white nobody, I also think he could have gotten punished longer. These are all just hypothetical and there's no way to prove if it's true or false, but I agree that there is a very real difference on how people are put on trial based on their background. The judicial system is still run by human beings, all of whom are prone to their biases, even if they're subconscious.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

So, I guess the answer to my question is yes. :bricks:

As you do not label yourself as a vegan, you clearly do not see eating as cruelty. So the only logical conclusion is that you are defending Vick's right to abuse animals for sport and claiming it should not be criminal. Is this in fact your argument? Or are you the above mentioned vegan?

Your creating words i didn't say. Not defending vick but you don't give a shyt about cows being fed into mass grinders. Your a hypocrite in other words. Im sure meat companies take pleasure in their profits.

Check out food inc. great doc

 

[Haley]

Your creating words i didn't say. Not defending vick

This is where you are wrong. You are defending Vick by comparing his crime to an act you don't "give a shyt about".

 

[West Philly Patriot]

This is where you are wrong. You are defending Vick by comparing his crime to an act you don't "give a shyt about".

What vick did was bad. You don't give a shyt about animal cruelty outside of dogs it seems. Better?

 

[Haley]

What vick did was bad. You don't give a shyt about animal cruelty outside of dogs it seems. Better?

Actually, I'm a vegetarian. Have been for years now. My parents rescue horses from horseracing. My sister is a vet. I house rabbits that have been abused. I have my flaws but animal cruelty isn't one of them. Still, I recognize the difference between the societal norm of meat eating and purposeless torture and slaughter for entertainment. I would hope you would as well.