1/3rd of the way through the season, the offseason criticism of Belichick seems way off base

[203Pat]

Strange how you earlier pointed out the virtues of a discussion forum, and are now giving yourself a pass for twisting and distorting the conversation by suggesting it's just a simple disagreement, instead of acknowledging the evidence I presented showing that you twisted and distorted the conversation. These things happen when having a discussion with an azz clown.

You think the staff deserves full exoneration and no one dare question any decisions made but Bill. I disagreed. Not much distortion. Anyways I am done with this.

 

[Bill Lee]

You think the staff deserves full exoneration and no one dare question any decisions made but Bill. I disagreed. Not much distortion. Anyways I am done with this.

You are done with this because you know you can't refute what I actually said and can't deal with me calling you out for the stuff you're just making up to try to win an argument. In short, you're a loser in every way.

 

[JayNM]

Hot thread. Coming out of a 2 W streak against 2 questionable teams and in the middle of the easiest part of the schedule. I like it

let me give a crack at the OP, since I had a lot of questions coming in for this season: We are betting on Growth still


1. Changing the offense
You already put my thoughts into your own ansewer - Something with Mac was clearly not working and this injury, was, in fact, a blessing in disguise in many ways.

2. Assigning Matt Patricia to calling plays
I defended him after week 3 I think? Guy were gettting open and the OL was playing better than expected. Again, going back to basics seems to haven been key for our last 2 wins and I gotta believe they won't break way from that, even if Mac returns... We are still at the cellar of the division, after all

3. Assigning Joe Judge to QBs
This one is tricky, bc I don't want to compliment Judge too much yet lol. Again, we are on the easiest part of the schedule and ALL our players are rising to the occasion: Last game, our receivers and TEs were playing in very high spirits, it's not like Zappe is doing magic in every pass. This one, i won't budge much, I wanna see how Mac returns and how we play for the WHOLE SEASON before giving out props

4. Trading Shaq Mason / 5B. Ted Karras go
From what I am reading the Bucs are in disarray. You know who else is in disarray? Wynn.

One of these two guy would've been better than Wynn and some of his mistakes were game costly ones. I'd give you that Mason was too expensive, but letting Karras go seems like a mistake, although not a big one, while Mason leaving is still questionable for me (but I havent watching them as closely)

5A. Letting JC Jackson and
I just read he got benched: Yeah, the feast or famine play style is very dangerous. He played his way out of the Pats budget but he has something our guys don't have: Lenght

We haven't really seem our secondary go against taller, elite guys. That's when you need that elite trait (in JC case, it's his athletiscism and size for the position)

Beating Goff and Brisset, with all due respect, don't speak much, if we are being very serious about it


6. The entire NFL draft and all the reaches
Meh, the good part of staying out of the NFL draft is that I can only be satisfied when thing go well. Only thing I still dont understand for this year was the 2 RBs

7. Losing his fastball when it comes to coaching
In comparison to the top guys... maybe marginally... There have been decision that are absolutely crazy to me (like practicing in a varsity field for the Dolphins game... Some In-game decision) . But to beat Dan Campbell and co... Come on man, that would be too slanderous

Ill just point out this, bc there is a lot of good stuff going: Right now, we are committing too many fouls for us to be considered "well-coached" IMO

8. Not having an innovator like McVay or Shanahan
Why ever innovate, am i right? Just keep plowing bad teams and we are bound to win the Super Bowl again

 

[moosekill]

Poor 203. The rest of the Brady Boyz are too busy over in the Tompa forum, trying to figure out who to blame for Tom’s recent break downs. Hell he even went to Roberts wedding instead of attending the walk through before the game. He is stuck here trying to **** on the patriots all by himself. And like that husband who found that a 3 way with 2 guys might not end the way he hoped, he suddenly is finding some of the boys are taking a liking to Mr Zappe, leaving him all alone with an empty tube of ky and walking funny.

 

[203Pat]

You are done with this because you know you can't refute what I actually said and can't deal with me calling you out for the stuff you're just making up to try to win an argument. In short, you're a loser in every way.

 

[203Pat]

Poor 203. The rest of the Brady Boyz are too busy over in the Tompa forum, trying to figure out who to blame for Tom’s recent break downs. Hell he even went to Roberts wedding instead of attending the walk through before the game. He is stuck here trying to **** on the patriots all by himself. And like that husband who found that a 3 way with 2 guys might not end the way he hoped, he suddenly is finding some of the boys are taking a liking to Mr Zappe, leaving him all alone with an empty tube of ky and walking funny.

Lol I hardly even post in there you weirdo. Weren't you the one who PMed me saying I was being too mean to you a while back?

 

[upstater1]

Belichick is the goat coach but he’s in his 70s now.

Patriots fan will be a lot more sorry Brady was gone than Belichick. Brady won another super bowl since he left. Patriots have not won another division title since Brady left

Belichick can be replaced easier than Brady. Players win the games

All time greats.

Neither will be replaced.

 

[tasmlab]

I suppose it doesn't help that since about 2014* or so, the Patriots look like a lost team in the first four weeks of the season. The first game of this year, it looked like they didn't know football. It lets that preseason angst really come to a head. And then it's all "we're on to Cincinnati" and things seem to work.

 

[upstater1]

Hot thread. Coming out of a 2 W streak against 2 questionable teams and in the middle of the easiest part of the schedule. I like it

let me give a crack at the OP, since I had a lot of questions coming in for this season: We are betting on Growth still


1. Changing the offense
You already put my thoughts into your own ansewer - Something with Mac was clearly not working and this injury, was, in fact, a blessing in disguise in many ways.

2. Assigning Matt Patricia to calling plays
I defended him after week 3 I think? Guy were gettting open and the OL was playing better than expected. Again, going back to basics seems to haven been key for our last 2 wins and I gotta believe they won't break way from that, even if Mac returns... We are still at the cellar of the division, after all

3. Assigning Joe Judge to QBs
This one is tricky, bc I don't want to compliment Judge too much yet lol. Again, we are on the easiest part of the schedule and ALL our players are rising to the occasion: Last game, our receivers and TEs were playing in very high spirits, it's not like Zappe is doing magic in every pass. This one, i won't budge much, I wanna see how Mac returns and how we play for the WHOLE SEASON before giving out props

4. Trading Shaq Mason / 5B. Ted Karras go
From what I am reading the Bucs are in disarray. You know who else is in disarray? Wynn.

One of these two guy would've been better than Wynn and some of his mistakes were game costly ones. I'd give you that Mason was too expensive, but letting Karras go seems like a mistake, although not a big one, while Mason leaving is still questionable for me (but I havent watching them as closely)

5A. Letting JC Jackson and
I just read he got benched: Yeah, the feast or famine play style is very dangerous. He played his way out of the Pats budget but he has something our guys don't have: Lenght

We haven't really seem our secondary go against taller, elite guys. That's when you need that elite trait (in JC case, it's his athletiscism and size for the position)

Beating Goff and Brisset, with all due respect, don't speak much, if we are being very serious about it


6. The entire NFL draft and all the reaches
Meh, the good part of staying out of the NFL draft is that I can only be satisfied when thing go well. Only thing I still dont understand for this year was the 2 RBs

7. Losing his fastball when it comes to coaching
In comparison to the top guys... maybe marginally... There have been decision that are absolutely crazy to me (like practicing in a varsity field for the Dolphins game... Some In-game decision) . But to beat Dan Campbell and co... Come on man, that would be too slanderous

Ill just point out this, bc there is a lot of good stuff going: Right now, we are committing too many fouls for us to be considered "well-coached" IMO

8. Not having an innovator like McVay or Shanahan
Why ever innovate, am i right? Just keep plowing bad teams and we are bound to win the Super Bowl again

4. Wynn is a tackle. Bringing Karras and Mason back don't help us there. Onwenu was really bad at tackle when he played last year. Unless you're talking about drafting tackles, because all the tackles were taken by our pick in the first round, including Penning. 6 tackles.

7 & 8. Those "innovator" coaches have presided over popgun offenses, despite the great quarterbacks and the All-Pro WRs.

Why?

Poor offensive lines.

Seems Belichick is ahead of the game once again when it comes to innovation and change (he saw the OL problem across the league BEFORE others did).

 

[Thelonious]

Yep. I was too hard on him. I still think that Bill the GM had too many really trash draft classes in the past, but the past couple have been very near stellar, especially if you consider where he was drafting, and I like the look of the team he's building. So, yet again, I was (teeth grinding) wrong.

 

[JayNM]

4. Wynn is a tackle. Bringing Karras and Mason back don't help us there. Onwenu was really bad at tackle when he played last year. Unless you're talking about drafting tackles, because all the tackles were taken by our pick in the first round, including Penning. 6 tackles.

7 & 8. Those "innovator" coaches have presided over popgun offenses, despite the great quarterbacks and the All-Pro WRs.

Why?

Poor offensive lines.

Seems Belichick is ahead of the game once again when it comes to innovation and change (he saw the OL problem across the league BEFORE others did).

Yeah, I agree that Offensive line on the whole is a lot better than imagine, but also, I'd like to have a chance to see how we would fare without our weakest link (Wynn)

To say he is ahead of the game before mid season at 3-3 is a bit premature tho, but I like the enthusiasm

 

[patfanken]

These teams aren't good comps. Seriously, the Patriots are among the top franchises in the history of the league and had the most recent dynasty. Yet you're comparing them to arguably the worst organizations in the NFL.

The Panthers had a few successful seasons with Delhomme and Newton but they've never won a SB championship. They're coming off 3 consecutive 5 wins seasons and probably would struggle to win games in the SEC this season.

The Jaguars have had a losing season in 13 of the last 14 years. In the last 22 seasons they have 1 division title and 3 playoff wins. They won a total of 4 games over the last two seasons.

The Lions haven't won a playoff game since 1991. They haven't won their division since 1993. They've reached double digit wins only 4 times in the last 30 years. Last place in their division 4 years in a row.

So let's not get totally ridiculous to say the Patriots are in a good place because they're not among the dregs of the NFL.

Let's stick with the most obvious comparisons: 1) to other teams in the division and 2) to other teams in the conference.

1) The AFC East

Buffalo is undeniably better than the other teams in the division.
Miami gets the nod over the Patriots because we apparently can't beat them anymore.
NYJ has a better record than the Patriots however I think the Patriots are the better team.

By my estimation the Patriots rank third in the division.

2) The AFC (a full ranking of all 16 teams)

01. Buffalo
02. Kansas City
03. LA Chargers
04. Cincinnati
05. Miami
06. Baltimore
07. Tennessee
08. NE Patriots
09. NY Jets
10. Indianapolis
11. LV Raiders
12. Denver
13. Cleveland
14. Pittsburgh
15. Jacksonville
16. Houston

Your list is fair. In fact I don't see the Pats as a top 10 team in the AFC......YET.

I saw something interesting while perusing stats for another post. The Pats defense, which were ranked 7th in points allowed, but middle of the road in most everything else (total ypg, rushing ypg, passing ypg) But in their 6 games they have played offenses that are currently ranked in the top 7 (Browns, Lions and Ravens) However NONE of the defenses we played are currently in the top half of the league, with GB close to the top half in points

So hopefully we kind of know what we know what we are going to get from our D when we face good offenses. However we have to remember we got our 2 wins against the 32nd and 30th ranked defenses. The closest thing we've seen to a good defense has been GB and the Ravens sho suck against the pass, but are pretty good against the run. But neither are great shakes So our offense has been pretty much untested, especially recently.

The Bears are below us in all categories. (Total ypg, rushing ypg and passing ypg) Like us their points allowed per game is better than the yardage stats The average just a half point more per game So I'm guessing their defense doesn't suck, but isn't great either.

On the offensive side of the ball, they are SECOND in the league in rushing and LAST in the league in passing. Most importantly they are 31st in the league in scoring points.

Bottom line, THIS is a team that with Gilbert at QB we should win at home

 

[Marko]

This isn't the first time Bill has been doubted or criticized. The doubt and tears from his haters is what has fuelled and sustained this dynasty for two decades.

Kind if happens yearly. If only Ben Volin could coach the team we would always go 20-0!

 

[upstater1]

To say he is ahead of the game before mid season at 3-3 is a bit premature tho, but I like the enthusiasm

I'm really only referring to the need to draft a guard.

Mind you, I was and maybe am still of the opinion that drafting Devin Lloyd instead of Cole Strange was the better move. I always thought guards could be taken later. Hjalte Froholdt, for instance, is playing really well for the Browns right now.

But I didn't see interior lineman becoming such a premium need around the league.

San Fran, LA Rams and Cincy are really suffering because of that lack of foresight, but it's not only them.

Regardless of their record, Belichick determined that pass protecting IOL are at a premium, which upends the way we normally thought of these positions.

And look at the number of IOL taken in the first 2 rounds. 7 in 2022. Just 3 in 2021, with Creed Humphrey and Josh Myers, both centers, taken at the very end of the 2nd round. 2 in 2020.

I think this league has changed now. So much of the rush is coming up the middle. The league is looking for more Aaron Donald, Barmore and Derek Wise types.

 

[upstater1]

I'm going to add #9 to this list: Should've kept Brady.

 

[JayNM]

I'm really only referring to the need to draft a guard.

Mind you, I was and maybe am still of the opinion that drafting Devin Lloyd instead of Cole Strange was the better move. I always thought guards could be taken later. Hjalte Froholdt, for instance, is playing really well for the Browns right now.

But I didn't see interior lineman becoming such a premium need around the league.

San Fran, LA Rams and Cincy are really suffering because of that lack of foresight, but it's not only them.

Regardless of their record, Belichick determined that pass protecting IOL are at a premium, which upends the way we normally thought of these positions.

And look at the number of IOL taken in the first 2 rounds. 7 in 2022. Just 3 in 2021, with Creed Humphrey and Josh Myers, both centers, taken at the very end of the 2nd round. 2 in 2020.

I think this league has changed now. So much of the rush is coming up the middle. The league is looking for more Aaron Donald, Barmore and Derek Wise types.

Understood, I think you have a great point on these interior rushers, making Guards more valuable and yeah, OL will always be a "hidden" advantage, no matter how fancy the game gets.

Nice posts all together, thanks for the inputs

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I'm going to add #9 to this list: Should've kept Brady.

At the risk of starting a holy war, I think that the mistake was how TB12 left the team not the fact that he left when he did. This opinion has nothing to do with TB12's ability to play at an elite level. If Brady had stayed the team would not have won any more super bowls and the rebuild would have been delayed by allocating a lot of salary cap to the QB and short term roster decisions intended to win now. As bad as it was to have him leave the team when he was still great, it would have been very sad to see TB12 finish his career suffering through multiple versions of the 2019 season if he stayed.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Let's see how they play against top teams such as buffalo

 

[RIpats88]

The draft has definitely turned out nice. Jackson, strange, Thornton, zappe.... All contributes this season. Strange looks like a top OL.

Now the coaching staff it's fair to question the "new shanahan offense" they installed with zone runs and deep shots. This OL isn't built for zone running.q

They didn't start winning until they essentially scrapped it and went back to last year's offense. Run between the tackles, play action etc.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I'm really only referring to the need to draft a guard.

Mind you, I was and maybe am still of the opinion that drafting Devin Lloyd instead of Cole Strange was the better move. I always thought guards could be taken later. Hjalte Froholdt, for instance, is playing really well for the Browns right now.

But I didn't see interior lineman becoming such a premium need around the league.

San Fran, LA Rams and Cincy are really suffering because of that lack of foresight, but it's not only them.

Regardless of their record, Belichick determined that pass protecting IOL are at a premium, which upends the way we normally thought of these positions.

And look at the number of IOL taken in the first 2 rounds. 7 in 2022. Just 3 in 2021, with Creed Humphrey and Josh Myers, both centers, taken at the very end of the 2nd round. 2 in 2020.

I think this league has changed now. So much of the rush is coming up the middle. The league is looking for more Aaron Donald, Barmore and Derek Wise types.

Froholdt? Lol. Good ‘Ol Hjalte had been riding the pine until Teller got hurt late in the first quarter against the Pats. He seemed to hold his own but not having to face Guy or Barmore (for two and a half quarters) probably helped him.

News & Notes: Hjalte Froholdt excited for ‘great opportunity’ in 1st NFL start

Froholdt replaced Teller when he suffered an injury last week and earned the chance for his first NFL start

www.clevelandbrowns.com

Initially a fourth-round pick by the Patriots in 2019, Froholdt has appeared in 20 career games and has mostly played as an extra special teams blocker after joining the Browns in 2021. He also took a goal-line snap as a fullback for the Browns on a Nick Chubb touchdown run in their Week 3 win over the Steeler and has sparingly served as an extra offensive blocker for the Browns this season.

Yesterday was his first NFL start, in place of Teller. I doubt that you’ve broken down the All-22 of the Browns-Ravens but Brissett was sacked 5 times, so more likely than not Froholdt’s sheet wasn’t clean.