Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

Family · Jul 3, 2026

rkarp1 said:
I posted the numbers over the last 10 year period.
the number is miniscule, of how many UDFA's make the 53 man roster year 1.
to go into a season, depending on contributions from UDFA's is a poor plan imo.
we saw last season Ponder eased in. weeks 1,2 and 4 last season he played 5, 4 and 3 defensive snaps.
it was not until week 10 (Landry was injured) that Ponder started to see regular week over week double digit defensive snaps (mostly 20-30% of the defensive snaps)

Ponder is an example of an UFA win. He was a factor as a rookie.
Wozzy's example of UFA, Wes Welker, was originally signed by the Chargers and cut.
Few contribute to the original team, so who cares until they show something.
Like Elliss last year. I'm sure some Eagles fans are thrilled we have him after he played one game as a rookie.

Ring 6 · Jul 3, 2026

Family said:
I didn't realize it was so high, but it is misleading to our discussion.

Most UFA do not contribute as rookies.

Mostly, these UFA players were practice squad and non contributors as rookies who hung in and eventually became depth. Often not for the team they started with.

You're pointing at these rookies now for this year. Yeah someday, maybe, but this year they are lottery tickets.

Scratchers, not power ball.

captain stone · Jul 3, 2026

mgteich said:
Have any the rest shown more great things on Defense: Britt, Obiazor, Gainer, Reese, Jacobs?

I believe that, unless he really fails to impress, Obiazor will make the 53 along with Spillane, Ellis & Muma (my preference) &/or Britt; while Jacobs should more likely than not clear waivers in order to be signed to the PS. It's past time we started to grow our own...

captain stone · Jul 3, 2026

mgteich said:
I also expect Britt to make the team. He is a solid STer, and yes, a couple of years ago he did have one year with significant defensive snaps.

So: Spillane, Ellis, Muma, Britt
about the same quality as last year.

Either Obiazor makes the 53 out-right or they need to bring in somebody. My preference is Both.

Spillane - Elliss - Wagner/Okereke - Obiazor, with Muma if they keep a 5th LB/Punt Protector.

Ahhh, that's better...

captain stone · Jul 3, 2026

rkarp1 said:
come again?
05-13 was about as impressive a run as any team could have
2 SB appearances
an undefeated season
double digit wins each of those seasons
1st place in the division each season except for one

2005 - 2013 = The Lost Decade.

Should've been 3 Lombardis.

captain stone · Jul 3, 2026

Wozzy said:
A lack of opportunity is not a lack of ability. Late round picks often have to wait for their time, sometimes the team needs a position filled, doesn’t have someone already there and it’s an open competition.

They needed it last year also, it wasn’t on the roster. Luckily Spillane and Elliss got and stayed healthy for the playoffs.

It’s always an unknown with young unproven players, but the coaches know what they’ve seen in practice.

There’s absolutely no difference if an UDFA earns a roster spot or a draft pick earns a roster spot.

If a player like Welker or Jon Jones is good they earn their spot, first on special teams then inevitably as a position player. Ask Elijah Ponder….

Spillane was Not healthy during the POs, and it showed.

captain stone · Jul 3, 2026

mayoclinic said:

He does seem to close quickly, I'll give him that.

rkarp1 · Jul 4, 2026

captain stone said:
Either Obiazor makes the 53 out-right or they need to bring in somebody. My preference is Both.

Spillane - Elliss - Wagner/Okereke - Obiazor, with Muma if they keep a 5th LB/Punt Protector.

Ahhh, that's better...

who doesn't want Wagner?
but last year he played on an $8.5m contract
he put up 162 tackles and 4.5 sacks
his PFF grade was 78.6, ranked 9th in the league
you think he is coming to be a back up? to make less than Elliss?
Pats handing him a $10m deal and starters snaps?
Will play the season at 36 years old.
if the Pats are, I am all in on Wagner for a 1 year deal only

Okereke had 143 tackles last season, but his pff grade 56.7, number 53rd in the league
29 years old this month, perhaps he would come on a show me deal??

One-If-By-Sea · Jul 4, 2026

captain stone said:
Either Obiazor makes the 53 out-right or they need to bring in somebody. My preference is Both.

Spillane - Elliss - Wagner/Okereke - Obiazor, with Muma if they keep a 5th LB/Punt Protector.

Ahhh, that's better...

I agree but I expect Wagner/Okereke will be Britt.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

rkarp1 said:
I already had this exact same discussion with Wozzy about 2 weeks ago.
he knows he is wrong
he will never admit it

You said UDFA’s making the NFL is rare and outliers, I provided the fact that a quarter of the entire league consists of UDFA’s… then you started dancing around the truth.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

Family said:
Yes and I am asking how many UFA's a year become adequate backups during their rookie season in the NFL. You'll give a few 15 second soundbites like that answers the question, but I'm talking overall real numbers.

Everything you say positive is a positive for every position on the team. But I look at other positions eyeing depth I on the team, and this position is one of the worse. TE recently became more of a problem, but going into camp this was weaker IMO than any offensive position depth wise. Some will say offensive line, but I think there's a solid 7 there, and that's as good as you can ask for.

I am not comparing the league. I am comparing what I feel is one of the weakest positions. I don't care about UFA's because every position has them. At WR they have little chance of making the roster, and here our tongue is a little hanging out.

That's how I evaluate depth.

“Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.“

That’s the topic, that’s the title of the thread.

I already stated I believe Muma will backup Spillane, and Obizaor will backup Elliss. The two UDFA ILB’s Khalil Jacobs or Amari Gainer could be behind them on the roster or practice squad.

Either way, I don’t view this as weak. I suspect this already represents an upgrade over the backup ILB’s they had entering camp last year. Ergo… not weak or thin.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

rkarp1 said:
I posted the numbers over the last 10 year period.
the number is miniscule, of how many UDFA's make the 53 man roster year 1.
to go into a season, depending on contributions from UDFA's is a poor plan imo.
we saw last season Ponder eased in. weeks 1,2 and 4 last season he played 5, 4 and 3 defensive snaps.
it was not until week 10 (Landry was injured) that Ponder started to see regular week over week double digit defensive snaps (mostly 20-30% of the defensive snaps)

A quarter of the NFL, a quarter of the 2025 Patriot roster, a quarter of the 2025 rookies who made the 2025 Patriots roster at some point. A quarter of the league and this team last year is not minuscule or an outlier… no matter how much you dance.

The laughable part is you saying you posted the numbers the last ten years, when if anyone goes back and looks you actually lied about the numbers and omitted a bunch of UDFA’s who made the team.

It’s doubly laughable when the discussion is about inside linebackers and both of our starting ILB’s entered the league as UDFA’s.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

captain stone said:
Spillane was Not healthy during the POs, and it showed.

Did it?

The defense led the entire postseason in every imaginable stat. They held the champion Seahawks without a TD for the better part of 4 quarters while the Patriot offense stunk up the joint and turned the ball over.

Are you sure you watched these games?

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

rkarp1 said:
you think he is coming to be a back up?

Reading you recycle talking points I told you a week or so ago and making them your own is humorous.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

captain stone said:
2005 - 2013 = The Lost Decade.

Should've been 3 Lombardis.

This was also known as the period Brady was among the highest paid players in the NFL.

It’s hard to consistently field a top team when one player takes up such a large percentage of your annual salary cap.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

Family said:
Ponder is an example of an UFA win. He was a factor as a rookie.
Wozzy's example of UFA, Wes Welker, was originally signed by the Chargers and cut.
Few contribute to the original team, so who cares until they show something.
Like Elliss last year. I'm sure some Eagles fans are thrilled we have him after he played one game as a rookie.

UDFA’s can often be cut and easily slid to the practice squad, it’s not always because they didn’t “show anything” but rather because teams have tough roster decisions and know other teams do also.

Having a talented rookie waiting in the wings on your practice squad is still depth… until some other smart team gets wise and tries to poach them. That almost happened last year with Dippre and Swinson so the Pats preempted that by activating them to the 53 man roster.

Depth is depth, practice squad or not, whether they play or not. The best deepest teams have good practice squad players.

mayoclinic · Jul 4, 2026

Patriots 2026 LB Preview: Slim Pickings In The Middle

Here's a look at how the New England Patriots' linebacker room is constructed ahead of this summer.

www.si.com

Family · Jul 4, 2026

Wozzy said:
Having a talented rookie waiting in the wings on your practice squad is still depth… until some other smart team gets wise and tries to poach them. That almost happened last year with Dippre and Swinson so the Pats preempted that by activating them to the 53 man roster.

And how much did Dippre and Swinson (who was drafted) help with depth last year at positions that could have really used depth? Swinson played 27 snaps and Dippre 20 the entire year. Other than Muma and maybe Britt, that's the level of backups.

Yes UFA may be talented. Yes they may eventually help. But how many see the field for meaningful snaps their rookie years? Few.

So yes Our BACKUPS are weak for this year.

Wozzy · Jul 4, 2026

Family said:
And how much did Dippre and Swinson (who was drafted) help with depth last year at positions that could have really used depth? Swinson played 27 snaps and Dippre 20 the entire year. Other than Muma and maybe Britt, that's the level of backups.

The Pats had Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper, they didn’t need Dippre to play… that’s quality depth. They also had Landry, Chaisson and Ponder who was undrafted, they didn’t need Swinson to play… that’s quality depth.

Depth isn’t having somebody who plays a lot, it’s having people behind the starters who can play in case of injury. You’re jumping all over the place.

Family said:
Yes UFA may be talented. Yes they may eventually help. But how many see the field for meaningful snaps their rookie years? Few.

So yes Our BACKUPS are weak for this year.

Muma and Obiazor were drafted, Jacobs and Gainer are behind them. You and others here don’t know if that’s “weak” or “thin” because you don’t know how good or bad these players are. Muma at least has proven to be a special teams ace and is a strong, very good athlete, which bodes well for his ability to play LB if need be.

For you to make your point, you have to pretend guys like Muma and Obizaor don’t exist and that all I’m talking about is the two UDFA’s… I’m not, I’m talking about all four prospects.

Family · Jul 4, 2026

Wozzy said:
The Pats had Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper, they didn’t need Dippre to play… that’s quality depth. They also had Landry, Chaisson and Ponder who was undrafted, they didn’t need Swinson to play… that’s quality depth.

Depth isn’t having somebody who plays a lot, it’s having people behind the starters who can play in case of injury. You’re jumping all over the place.

You're jumping all over the place. I'm only following your anecdotal examples who are really examples making my argument.

You still haven't answered. How many rookie UFA's are factors as position players, backup or otherwise, a year in the NFL?

Answer: Less than 20 out of about 500. Less than 1 per team.

That's the only stat that matters when discussing UFA's as potential position backups.

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