What is our plan for ILB?

Wozzy said:

Jack Gibbens is a Toyota Corolla... Chad Muma is a Porsche 911.

Chad Muma
6-3 237
4.63 forty
40" vert
27 bench
129" broad
6.90 cone
4.21 shuttle

Jack Gibbens
6-3 242
4.82 forty
34" vert
14 bench
117" broad
7.02 cone
4.20 shuttle

The only thing Gibbens had was mobility and some knowledge how to play football, otherwise he wasn't a good athlete.

The best pure athletes on this team at ILB are Elliss, Muma and now Obiazor... which is strange. It's all the ILB'ers the negative Nancys dislike for some reason. Some people foolishly put entirely too much stock in draft position.

Click to expand...

Just a reminder: NFL History is littered with "the best pure athletes" who accomplished very little for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons include not being able to play as part of a team, believing their athleticism could make up for their lack of understanding of the game, refusing to take coaching, continual over-pursuit, taking bad angles, etc.

mgteich said:

This isn't a court of law. It is a message board. We speculate. If we wanted proof or close, the best we could do is to say that almost every rooster spot is up for grabs.

ALTERNATIVE ONE
Vrabel is OK with his starters.

ALTERNATIVE TWO
Vrabel wants better starters and thinks, as many here, that at least one of them is really very good.
Under this scenario, Vrabel and staff were not able to secure anyone who could even compete wit Spillane and Ellis.

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with being in a court of law. It has to do with basic logical thought and the fact that your "alternatives" are just assumptions that ignore things like player value and the league timeline.

One key factor you ignored is that the RFA Tender had to be made PRIOR to Free Agency. Vrabel CHOSE to not put the RFA tender on Gibbens. Clearly, Vrabel felt that Gibbens didn't provide the necessary value necessary to retain him.

We have no idea if the Pats attempted to sign guys like Devin Bush, Quay Walker, Nakobe Dean or Leo Chanal. We have no idea if the Pats reached out to LBs and felt they were over-priced or if the Pats attempted to negotiate and couldn't come to an agreement.

We have no idea where the Pats had Rodriguez, Golday, CJ Allen, or Anthony Hill rated. With the exception of Hill the other 3 came off the board rather quickly in the 2nd round and the Pats traded up to get Jacas when it looked like things were going to shift back to more Edge Rushers coming off the board. The only thing I can say is that the Pats had Jacas rated higher than Anthony Hill.

With the trade of both 4th rounders, it became obvious that the Pats weren't going to get an impact LB despite it being a need. So, instead of reaching, they stuck to their board. And yes, I raised the question of taking Raridon over LBs such as Elarms-Orr or Kyle Louis, a CB like Julian Neal or Keionte Scott, or an OG like Jalen Farmer or Jeremiah Wright.

To date, Vrabel has shown that he intends to rebuild via the draft. With that in mind, the Pats went into the draft with a very strong likelihood of 1 compensatory pick for 2027 with the possibility of a second one. If the Pats had made an additional signing prior to May 1st, there was a very strong likelihood that the signing would have counted in the compensatory formula. That would have eliminated the chance for the Pats to have a compensatory pick in 2027.

As others have mentioned, the Pats could have been waiting until June 1st, when there is a chance of other veterans being cut that could be improvements over Elliss, Britt, Reese, Gainer, etc, etc.

Muma was a 3rd rd pick in 2022, and in 2025, the Pats were his 3rd team.
defensive snaps played
2022-26%
2023-13%
2024-22%
2025. 2 teams. (1)-9%. (2) 14%

maybe he can turn it around
at this time, at 27 years old, he is most likely who he is. a roster question mark.
to cover themselves, the Pats signed Britt in free agency, and are bringing in Obiazor and Jacobs thru the draft and undrafted free agency.

you can post a players athleticism all day and every day. if he has shown he cannot get on the field, or play well once on, he is a question mark. that's Muma. last season, the Corrola helped the team to the SB. the Porsche could not get on the field.

DaBruinz said:

Just a reminder: NFL History is littered with "the best pure athletes" who accomplished very little for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons include not being able to play as part of a team, believing their athleticism could make up for their lack of understanding of the game, refusing to take coaching, continual over-pursuit, taking bad angles, etc.

Click to expand...

Muma plays, has played. He’s not Anthony Richardson who can’t see the field.

rkarp1 said:

Muma was a 3rd rd pick in 2022, and in 2025, the Pats were his 3rd team.
defensive snaps played
2022-26%
2023-13%
2024-22%
2025. 2 teams. (1)-9%. (2) 14%

maybe he can turn it around
at this time, at 27 years old, he is most likely who he is. a roster question mark.
to cover themselves, the Pats signed Britt in free agency, and are bringing in Obiazor and Jacobs thru the draft and undrafted free agency.

you can post a players athleticism all day and every day. if he has shown he cannot get on the field, or play well once on, he is a question mark. that's Muma. last season, the Corrola helped the team to the SB. the Porsche could not get on the field.

Click to expand...

We’ve already discussed this repeatedly. The majority of his career was with Jacksonville, where he had two studs ahead of him. An All Pro and a league leading tackler ahead of him.

A new regime took over in 2025 and Muma was in the last year of his rookie deal so they parted ways. He started on the Colts and wound up on the Patriots all in one season.

He’s been in the league 4 seasons. He’s been on the field plenty, after joining the Pats midseason he played in the last three games of the regular season and every playoff game.

Wozzy said:

We’ve already discussed this. The majority of his career was with Jacksonville, where he had two studs ahead of him. An All Pro and a league leading tackler ahead of him.

A new regime took over in 2025 and Muma was in the last year of his rookie deal so they parted ways. He started on the Colts and wound up on the Patriots all in one season.

He’s been in the league 4 seasons. He’s been on the field plenty, after joining the Pats midseason he played in the last three games of the regular season and every playoff game.

Click to expand...

what we have discussed is you need to stop twisting the facts and lying because you are wrong

Muma did not "start" for the Colts
Week 1 he was inactive
week 2 he played 3 defensive snaps
Week 3 inactive
Weeks 4 thru 7 snaps played: 10, 18, 2 0
The Colts then released him.

He was active for 3 games for the Pats, in spite of 55 career games played. he played 0 defensive snaps game 1, and then 15 snaps in a 42-10 blow out and 9 snaps in a 38-10 blowout

he is 27 years old and has been with 3 teams
he has not proven he can get on the field
maybe this season he will
maybe he will be a ST stud
but chances are he is battling 3-4 players for that last LB spot, with 2 of them rookies with most likely more upside

rkarp1 said:

what we have discussed is you need to stop twisting the facts and lying because you are wrong

Muma did not "start" for the Colts
Week 1 he was inactive
week 2 he played 3 defensive snaps
Week 3 inactive
Weeks 4 thru 7 snaps played: 10, 18, 2 0
The Colts then released him.

Click to expand...

I never said “he started for the Colts.”

Start there…

rkarp1 said:

He was active for 3 games for the Pats, in spite of 55 career games played. he played 0 defensive snaps game 1, and then 15 snaps in a 42-10 blow out and 9 snaps in a 38-10 blowout

Click to expand...

He played the third most special teams snaps on the team in the Super Bowl.

When it came time to pay Jack Gibbens the team moved on, and he didn’t get paid that much.

I didn’t make you a promise Muma was a roster lock, I just said with Muma and three rookies they’re better now than where they were last season at this time. Not thin…

rkarp1 said:

what we have discussed is you need to stop twisting the facts and lying because you are wrong

Muma did not "start" for the Colts
Week 1 he was inactive
week 2 he played 3 defensive snaps
Week 3 inactive
Weeks 4 thru 7 snaps played: 10, 18, 2 0
The Colts then released him.

He was active for 3 games for the Pats, in spite of 55 career games played. he played 0 defensive snaps game 1, and then 15 snaps in a 42-10 blow out and 9 snaps in a 38-10 blowout

he is 27 years old and has been with 3 teams
he has not proven he can get on the field
maybe this season he will
maybe he will be a ST stud
but chances are he is battling 3-4 players for that last LB spot, with 2 of them rookies with most likely more upside

Click to expand...

Wozzy never said that Muma started for the Colts
You're incorrect about what happened with Muma last year.
Muma was claimed by the Colts on August 27th.
You are correct that he was inactive for weeks 1 & 3. But he was also inactive for week 8.

Muma was released by the Colts on November 1st. Which was right before week 9.
The Colts signed Muma to their PS on November 4th and Muma was there until the Pats signed him on December 15th. So, weeks 10-15 was on the Colts PS..

Muma also played in all 4 play-off games for the Pats, though he only saw a total of 5 defensive snaps.

That all being said, I agree that Muma is, by no means, guaranteed a spot on the roster. That he'll be in a battle with Luketa, Britt, Obiazor, Jacobs, Gainer, and Reese to make the team.

Wozzy said:

Vrabel's not going to abandon his defensive philosophy just because some fans don't like undersized WILL LB'ers playing primarily in the middle. WILL LB'ers and Strong Safeties are nearly identical in many cases. So I don't see the problem.

Click to expand...

Agreed here. When it comes to LB that's one position I'm never gonna question Vrabel on as he's played both ILB and OLB in his career. I like Spillane to he reminds me of Bruschi in many ways..

DaBruinz said:

That all being said, I agree that Muma is, by no means, guaranteed a spot on the roster. That he'll be in a battle with Luketa, Britt, Obiazor, Jacobs, Gainer, and Reese to make the team.

Click to expand...

This is not bad at all for choices to be backup ILB's and core STer's.

I suspect that the favorites are Muma and Britt, but any 2-3 could make the 53.

mgteich said:

This is not bad at all for choices to be backup ILB's and core STer's.

I suspect that the favorites are Muma and Britt, but any 2-3 could make the 53.

Click to expand...

Mama and Britt will likely make this roster as STs players depth LBs.. unless they really show something in camp to show the coaches more..

I do not understand why Devin White has not signed with a team yet. He's not injured. He is 28 yo all of 2026. He's a tackle machine, has 25.5 career sacks and 24 passes defended. What is the holdup?

manxman2601 said:

You only have to see him on tape to see his speed.

Click to expand...

All of the other teams in the league already have.

Wozzy said:

This Khalil Jacobs kid is like all our LB'ers, weak side WILL sized LB'ers... that's Vrabel's philosophy. His forty speed is the same as Robert Spillane so that's not so concerning, but his agility drills are pretty poor. That being said his explosion drills are nuts, 40" vertical and 133" broad jump are exceptional, and another thing that stands out is his strength, he benched it 27 times, so he's stronger than our rookie offensive linemen.

Players like him that only work out at their pro day are a mixed bag. We've seen repeatedly in the past prospects work out at the combine, post poor numbers in a specific drill... then go to their pro day and improve greatly on those same drills. Football players don't do these drills in practice, they only do these leading up to the draft, so often the drills are foreign to them. If Jacobs had another chance and took some time he might increase his agility some. His times weren't good, but they weren't absolutely horrible either. Spillane also isn't a great athlete, he's an instinctual guy who just knows how to play football. This kid might be similar.

They have a pretty good group of ILBer's with Spillane in the middle, Ellis starting behind him, Muma a full year in the system, an athletic Obiazor added and two potential developmental guys in Declan Williams and Khalil Jacobs. The latter two probably won't make it, or might make the practice squad, but the top four are solid assuming health.

"Thin" is an abstract meaningless negative Nancy designation, no team has two or three Pro Bowl backups chomping at the bit on their bench.

Click to expand...

You obviously hold this collection of stiffs and Never-Will-Bees in far, Far higher regard than some here do.

captain stone said:

You obviously hold this collection of stiffs and Never-Will-Bees in far, Far higher regard than some here do.

Click to expand...

Just for giggles I went and searched out all the 2025 prediction threads for the Patriots. You didn’t make a prediction on any of them.

So you constantly tell us how sucky the team and all its players are, but never put yourself out there to tell us how bad they will be. Bold takes.

It’s easy to be cynical and negative, it’s harder to actually see things for how they are. Again… we had people here telling us we had “no talent” and worse during the 2014-2018 run. Negative Nancy’s aren’t hard to find in Patriot nation.

Zuma said:

I do not understand why Devin White has not signed with a team yet. He's not injured. He is 28 yo all of 2026. He's a tackle machine, has 25.5 career sacks and 24 passes defended. What is the holdup?

Click to expand...

Zuma said:

I do not understand why Devin White has not signed with a team yet. He's not injured. He is 28 yo all of 2026. He's a tackle machine, has 25.5 career sacks and 24 passes defended. What is the holdup?

Click to expand...

He could have salary demands that teams don't want to meet. Or teams didn't want to have him count in the compensatory pick formula that would benefit the Raiders. He could be contemplating retiring. Or he doesn't want to go through the Minicamps/and the Dog days of Summer and is waiting to sign in August.

Those are potential reasons just off the top of my head.

taken from Pats Pulpit opinions

The Pats parted ways with the following this offseason:

Jack Gibbens, 45.2% of snaps, $4M

Jahlani Tavai, 22.3% of snaps, $9M

Marte Mapu, 11.7% of snaps, $1.1M



The Pats added:

KJ Britt, 14% of snaps for Miami last year, $1.4M in 2026

Available on Free Agent Market Are:

Bobby Okereke, 99% of snaps, $9M last season

Bobby Wanger, 99.4% of snaps, $9M

Lavonte David, 99%, $9M

Logan Wilson, 53%, $2.9M

Matt Milano, 50%, $7.1M (3.5 sacks last year)

Germaine Pratt, 79%, $1.5M (10 passes defensed last year)

Devin White, 94%, $1.2m (athletic, but struggles in coverage)

Shaq Thompson, 42% of snaps, $1.2M (former 1st rounder, coming back from injury)

Their price for this season depends on market rate and such, but if I had to guess who would be a cost-effective addition, it would be:

Germaine Pratt for $2-$3Million,

and for fun a flyer on Shaq Thompson, but since he essentially did prove it last year on a prove-it deal, I'm less sure what his market rate would be.