hornetfb85
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I'll fix. I meant Williams not Jones
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I'll fix. I meant Williams not Jones
Great points!! For me as a fan Vrabel makes all the difference to me. His team and culture building prowess and how he can get the best out of guys he just has such a great ability to do this for his players.. I like that he's intentional on players that he pursues and how they help and continue to build on last season and going forward. The fact that he's had this relationship with AJ just makes all the sense in the world to try and attain him.. regardless the offense will still be a game plan and spread the ball around offense with or without AJ.I think most often “# 1 WR” or even “WR1” is shorthand for saying “cheat code WR”, like Moss in his prime, or Gronk at his best.
In other words, a generational talent at receiver, practically unstoppable.
That’s what everybody wants, but generational talents don’t come along every year so the clamor for WR1 talent hungers for even a shadow of such performance and demands an NFL top two or three receiver all the time. It’s not good enough if your top WR, your “#1 receiving option” ranks high statistically if they don’t meet the proverbial eye test.
So we end up with multiple endless threads about A.J.Brown.
And posts that Diggs wasn’t a true WR1 even though he was the #1 receiving option on the #3 passing offense.
SMH.
I disagree. I see no scenario where we don't keep 6 DL's.I don't think there's any issue in numbers at DT. I'm just not sure they have a true NT type now that Tonga is gone. They might want to add that skill set either through FA or the draft. They are in a situation though where if they add a player like that, they likely have to cut someone good enough to be on a team. Sometimes it just falls like that where your last cut at one position is actually a better player than your last keep at another.
It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, they do at that spot IMO.
There are 10-12 guy who are #1WR alphas in the NFL, so the majority of teams are also lacking that aspect.I think most often “# 1 WR” or even “WR1” is shorthand for saying “cheat code WR”, like Moss in his prime, or Gronk at his best.
In other words, a generational talent at receiver, practically unstoppable.
That’s what everybody wants, but generational talents don’t come along every year so the clamor for WR1 talent hungers for even a shadow of such performance and demands an NFL top two or three receiver all the time. It’s not good enough if your top WR, your “#1 receiving option” ranks high statistically if they don’t meet the proverbial eye test.
So we end up with multiple endless threads about A.J.Brown.
And posts that Diggs wasn’t a true WR1 even though he was the #1 receiving option on the #3 passing offense.
SMH.
There really aren't many options out there to improve the OL though. I don't see a FA LT out there better than Campbell, at least the pre injury version. They didn't sign AVT to be a backup obviously. Onwenu I wouldn't mind moving on from but he's better than any Guard I see out there. Moses is ancient and I wouldn't mind upgrading but again, who? Seems like a rookie RT makes sense, but probably unlikely that they'd start him over Moses in year 1. Wilson is the easiest guy to upgrade, but he's a young player they seem to want to develop.
WR on the other hand... our top 3 last year was Hollins/Boutte/Diggs (in that order if you go by playing time, flip it if you go by stats). Doubs takes Diggs' spot but Hollins is still in line to play starter level snaps. He shouldn't play that much in an ideal world.
The bottom line is that looking at their roster and the options out there, it seems improbable to me that they find another OL starter upgrade, whereas a WR upgrade over Hollins seems rather doable and realistic.
I hear you. What kind of LB do you want? A Spillane type?Totally agree. If we could upgrade Davis we would have a killer secondary, with consistent game changing level DBs.
DE/edge for sure. Inside DL is not a priority as much as LB imo.
Yes but the real question in regards to JSN is how much of impact to gameplanning against him have on how great Kenneth Walker played?There are 10-12 guy who are #1WR alphas in the NFL, so the majority of teams are also lacking that aspect.
Dallas who has 2 #1 WR types finished the year with 266 ypg and the Pats finished 250 ypg and both teams had 31 pass TDs. Dallas also had had 120 more pass attempts. Honestly a #1 WR doesn't sound that important. I am pretty sure everyone would agree that JSN is one of those guys, but in the SB he had 4 catches on 10 targets for 27 yds.
I’m looking forward to Larison coming back, but imo he’s really the only hope we have now for upgrading RB3 so I’d like a draft pick there.Very interested to hear the reasoning behind RB being ahead of TE. I view both spots as ones where you play 2 guys regularly and want the third to be solid enough to step in. I would say our top 2 at RB (Stevenson, Henderson) are better than the top 2 at TE (Henry, Hill). Overall the RB duo is younger and longer term contract status since Henry is a FA after the year. And even behind those "starters", I'd say Jennings has shown more than Dipre or Westover so far.
Ultimately we're splitting hairs here about the 6th vs. 7th need on your list. Just curious your reasoning there.
I get what you are saying, but I go back to quotes from Seahawks players after the SB saying they knew all they had to worry about was Maye and no one else. We don’t scare good defences, which was pretty clear in the playoffs.Hey, I read the last 3 pages of this thread and thought you guys are having a great discussion that I enjoyed and learned from. Kudos. Let me add a couple of point to the mix.
1. For a fan base that has watched the Pats these last 25 years, I don't get the near obsession with "finding at #1 WR" rather than simply finding reliable "good" WR who can all eat and catch balls from a QB good enough to elevate those around them. Well we HAVE that guy at QB. We didn't have a true #1 last year and we had the 4th best passing offense, the 3rd best total offense, and 9th in scoring (have to improve that red zone efficiency).
Having a #1 WR implies that he's your go to guy and is likely to get 12-15 targets a game. Think about what that means to a team that only throws the ball around 25 times a game. Josh McDaniel's offense is DESIGNED to do the opposite and NOT focus on one individual. Everyone is a threat. That's how it works. WR's have to share the ball because RB's and TE's are going to get a lot of targets too. So investing a hefty percentage of your cap space on a #1WR and feeding him the targets he's going to want could be counter productive in THIS particular offense.
2. Now that doesn't mean I'd oppose a reasonable trade to get AJB (say a 27 2nd and a 28 3rd), not because he's a #1 WR, but because he's a good one and will add to the room and fit into the offense well. I wouldn't expect huge numbers for him since he's likely only to get 6-8 targets a game like the rest of starters, BUT the overall offense will be better with him. It will be a better offense with 3 WR's getting 800 yds than one guy getting 1200. Besides, with the additions of AVT, Gilliam, and Hill we might be running the ball even more this season.
I want to expand on this a little.I guess that’s my main qualifier to BPA. My preference is whoever gives the biggest upgrade over the existing players at the position, or the biggest improvement to the set of players at that position. Adjusted for the importance or value of the position and the strength or weakness of the existing field, relative to league best at that position.
There’s a big difference between upgrading all the skill positions, and upgrading one at the expense of others.I get what you are saying, but I go back to quotes from Seahawks players after the SB saying they knew all they had to worry about was Maye and no one else. We don’t scare good defences, which was pretty clear in the playoffs.
The schedule gets a lot harder. Upgrading the skill positions (<-emphasis on the plural!) and making it easier for Maye against strong defences is something we need to do.
I hear you. What kind of LB do you want? A Spillane type?
As we enter draft, I agree that improving our OL is a high priority, along with EDGE. These are much more important than other positions. I would note that we do need a DE.I want to expand on this a little.
It’s why I have upgrading our OL roster very high on my priority list, and upgrading our WRs as a fairly low priority.
I don’t think we realistically have much chance of upgrading our starting OL, assuming that is Campbell-AVT-Wilson-Onwenu-Moses. My assumptions are: Generally, offensive linemen with superior talent are scarce so it’s a very competitive market. Finding good value in FA or trade is rare. Upgrades to improve starter quality players to even better starters through trades or FA will be extremely rare and very expensive. Also, truly outstanding OL talent is drafted very high, early in the first round. So it seems unrealistic to me that we can expect to improve our starters, picking at #31 in the draft, and I don’t think we have the need badly enough to trade up to get OL before #31.
But I think our OL quality drops off very quickly after the starters, with maybe a couple of exceptions. Ben Brown is the one obvious exception, as a possible borderline starting talent at IOL. Other than Brown all the OL backups seem very likely to be a serious downgrade if they replace one of the starters. So there is great room and need for improvement. OL is the second most important position on the team, after QB, because a poor OL will get a QB killed.
So there is a great need at a position of great importance, to improve our second string OL talent.
I just don’t subscribe to the popular notion of talent importance at WR. Perhaps I watched TB12 winning too many games throwing to the likes of Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell. For most of the BB era dynasties the Patriots did not have overwhelming WRs. They won the same way Josh had Drake winning last season: spread the ball around by hitting the open receiver. With a balanced offense and good play design and decent but not necessarily overwhelming receivers the defense will usually leave somebody open enough for a good QB to keep moving the chains, if he has enough time.
The Patriots have Doubs, Hollins, Boutte, Pop, Williams, Henry, Stevenson, and Henderson as the primary receiving corps, with additional depth in Hill, Jiles, and perhaps Gilliam, at least. So I don’t see receivers as being an area in great need of improvement. It’s a position that really isn’t as important as most people thing it is, and the roster is filled with players that are really better than most people think they are.
So that’s why to me the better use of resources is improving the guys protecting Drake Maye annd the running backs he hands off to, instead of worrying about improving the guys he’s throwing the football to.
OL first and foremost. Depending on value when they pick. A DE would be fineAs we enter draft, I agree that improving our OL is a high priority, along with EDGE. These are much more important than other positions. I would note that we do need a DE.
I don't think that we have any chance for a top Ol after Round 1.
I think a Mike Vrabel type would be just fine.I hear you. What kind of LB do you want? A Spillane type?
OL first and foremost. Depending on value when they pick. A DE would be fine
I don't know their games. Are the MIKE/WILL types or OLBs?They can LB if they want in the 1st round. CJ Allen and Anthony Hill are both good prospects that could be there.
I read that he was 5-8 as a JR in highschool and grew 9 inches in a summerI think they will go edge & Oline with their 1st two picks, not sure which order. But I see them grabbing at least 1 WR & 1 TE in rounds 3 on down.
One very interesting WR is a project, but a physical freak. Jeff Caldwell is 6’5” 215, ran a 4.31, had a 42 inch vertical, 134 inch broad jump (99th percentile), has pretty big hands at 9 3/4. Just a freak of a specimen. Explosive. I know he didn’t have a great year, but in 2024, he had 53 catches for 1032 yards and 11 tds. I always want the Pats to take a home run swing at this kind of prospect, they never do, and a lot of them wind up productive for their teams. This guy would be a great red zone target as well, tough matchup.
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