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Can we now start to think the whole “Kraft is cheap” was more of a Belichick philosophy?

I agree, but I would bet Kraft was fine with Belichick not wanting to spend.

What owner wouldn't be fine with his GM being frugal with his money while consistently winning Super Bowls and having the longest dynasty in NFL history?

Obviously, Belichick's strategy of building teams worked. You can make the argument that it might have worked better if the Pats spent more, but you cannot argue that whatever Belichick did stopped the Patriots from winning at least in the Brady years.

But I think Kraft knows that he makes more ultimately if the Pats win Super Bowls than being frugal even if he has to spend in free agency. And I don't think making money is his only goal with the team.
 
That is the only thing that is impressive to me as a fan. The rest is just Crisco.

Whether it impresses you or not, these are examples of Kraft investing money on the team. I get that fans wouldn't be impressed with Kraft buying a team jet or spending tens of millions on training facility, but he is also spending a fortune on stadium upgrades to improve the fan experience rather than doing what teams like the Bears are doing by playing two states off one another to spend over a billion dollars to build them a stadium.

NOTE: I know Kraft tried to leverage Hartford to get Mass to build him a stadium, but he ultimately did it himself. The Bears are going to get either Indiana or Illinois to build them a stadium. There is no fall back where they will build it themselves to stay in the Chicago area.
 
It's hard to say. The Patriots spent a lot when they had the cash in 2021 and they brought in a big free agent class. But that's because the 2020 team was very short on talent.

So, right now, we're spending a lot. What if this team is fully stocked at every position? Then it may start to resemble the Belichick years more when yes, you're signing Adalius Thomas and Corey Dillon and Randy Moss and Darelle Revis and Stephon Gilmore. But those were one offs.
Weren't they the biggest cash spenders last year too? So that's twice in 5 years, plus, is it possible to have 4 one offs?
 
I have always thought that those who call the Krafts cheap have been full of **** all along, so I have experienced no revelation whatever. The Krafts are savvy businessmen willing to spend when it is wise to do so. Their critics are whiners envious of the Krafts' success in life, the usual childish ressentiment so rampant these days, and more than a few may also be motivated by the anti-semitism likewise rampant.

And no, I am not Jewish, if anyone cares, though I do admire their culture and their accomplishments down through the centuries.
 
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Weren't they the biggest cash spenders last year too? So that's twice in 5 years, plus, is it possible to have 4 one offs?
The are last in the NFL overall though. I think it just speaks to the lack of need to bring players in. When you focus on free agents you’re giving huge guaranteed bonuses that you are pushing off into the future whereas if you’re just paying salaries up to the cap, your expenditures are year to year.
 
Kraft has been getting crap for years for not spending in free agency and only being active in free agency once every three years. But this year is disproving this theory. Sure the Patriots aren’t spending like they did last year, but they have been as active this week signing talent as almost any other team in the league.

Whether or not you like the players they added, you have to admit they have aggressively addressed the biggest weaknesses and needs of the team from last year. And by all accounts, they are not done and are actively seeking trades. They aren’t just sitting back and waiting for the draft and whatever left overs are left in free agency come the end of March as we have seen in other years.

The evidence points to being cheap was more of a Belichick thing. Look at the Belichick coaching staffs and front office personnel as proof. Belichick had one of the smallest staffs and didn’t believe in creating departments like analytics or sports science. Could you image Belichick having a passing game coordinator like Vrabel has? Many years, his coordinators had position coaching responsibilities on top of their own responsibilities. Patricia was OC and o-line coach Belichick’s last year. Granted Thomas Brown is TEs coach on top of passing game coordinator.

Since Wolf took over GM responsibilities, he has been expanding the scouting department where Belichick ran a bare bones operation.

The Patriots could go back next year to their old selves and be totally inactive in free agency after being aggressive these past two years. But I tend to doubt it. Assuming they have another successful draft and these free agency signings are successful, they will have less holes to fill next year. So they may be less aggressive to sign as many players, but they may still go after players.

Belichick had a lot of success. So you can’t trash his philosophy too much. But a lot of years, Belichick the genius coach and Brady the GOAT QB had to overcome lack of talent. But I get the feeling that Belichick was the “cheap” one.
Not really because they pretty much spent to the cap in Tom's last years and splurged in 2021.
 

I think I'll sit this one out.
 
Whether it impresses you or not, these are examples of Kraft investing money on the team. I get that fans wouldn't be impressed with Kraft buying a team jet or spending tens of millions on training facility, but he is also spending a fortune on stadium upgrades to improve the fan experience rather than doing what teams like the Bears are doing by playing two states off one another to spend over a billion dollars to build them a stadium.

NOTE: I know Kraft tried to leverage Hartford to get Mass to build him a stadium, but he ultimately did it himself. The Bears are going to get either Indiana or Illinois to build them a stadium. There is no fall back where they will build it themselves to stay in the Chicago area.
Yep. Whatever you want to say about Kraft, he does invest in the team. Obviously, the success of the team over the last 25 years says he’s doing a lot right. I think he wants his ass kissed for everything he does, but he’s not a cheap owner.
 
Yep. Whatever you want to say about Kraft, he does invest in the team. Obviously, the success of the team over the last 25 years says he’s doing a lot right. I think he wants his ass kissed for everything he does, but he’s not a cheap owner.
That's true but there's also a lot of bologna sandwiches being eaten on this thread and while I prefer fried spam as my choice of death meat, we're no saints and you all have no idea what Kraft wanted from BB as an employee except to win and later wear a non-football charity pin and to not be mean to the dumb**** media.
 
That's true but there's also a lot of bologna sandwiches being eaten on this thread and while I prefer fried spam as my choice of death meat, we're no saints and you all have no idea what Kraft wanted from BB as an employee except to win and later wear a non-football charity pin and to not be mean to the dumb**** media.

I suspect that last was more a request/suggestion and if BB would simply win and at least consider wearing the pin in a visible fashion then playing patty cake with the dumb**** media could be considered more or less optional. OFC it's just a theory and YMMV but I do hold that winning covers a multitude of sins
 
In 2000, Bill Belichick took over a team that was in salary cap hell. That was cleaned up the following season.

Here's a list of the 'toys' Bill pulled in for what turned out to be Brady's first year starting (and obviously a championship).

2001 Patriot Free Agents:
CB Terrell Buckley: Signed to strengthen the secondary.
G Mike Compton: Provided stability on the offensive line.
LB Bryan Cox: Provided veteran leadership to the defense.
FB Marc Edwards: Signed from Cleveland.
QB Damon Huard: Signed from Miami
LB Larry Izzo: Stolen from Miami
WR David Patten: Provided a playmaker at receiver.
LB Roman Phifer
DE Anthony Pleasant: Added depth and experience to the defensive line.
RB Antowain Smith: Key offseason addition to the backfield.
LB Mike Vrabel: Signed from Pittsburgh; became a defensive cornerstone.
DL Stephen Neal: Signed as a free agent from a wrestling background

And on a sidenote, let's not forget these 2001 draft studs.
2001 Draft
DE Richard Seymour
T Matt Light
 
NFL free agency as we know it didn’t start until the 1993 season. And the first four or five years or maybe even more, it was nothing like we know free agency is today. There really wasn’t a lot player movement or big contracts given out for players to change teams. So to say the Pats were cheap as far back as 1994 is bogus.

And they near the bottom of the market in the mid to late 90s because they were a young team with most of their top players like Bledsoe, Law, Mcginest, Martin and others all on rookie deals. That is what happens when you rebuild a team from scratch after the disaster of the early 99s.

Yes, Kraft did missteps that came back to haunt him like keeping Curtis Martin on his RFA contract rather than extending him, but there wasn’t as many opportunities to spend. He gave huge contracts to Ty Law and Drew Bledsoe.

And you can argue that Kraft gets poor grades for spending too much. Kraft bought his team plane for tens of millions of dollars while every other team except one charters their planes which is cheaper. The players would be more comfortable in chartered jets and Kraft would have saved money. And Kraft is building a state of the art training facilty. And is one of the only owners to build his stadium without public money.
Who said anything about prior to 1994 when Kraft bought the team? Nobody.

The Patriots were near dead last in cash spending under Parcells and Carroll, which is exactly what I said.

The NFLPA voted the Patriots the cheapest franchise multiple years, Pete Carroll outright called Kraft cheap. How's that my fault?

The fans have nothing to do with it, stop blaming fans for noticing what players and former employees are saying.

By the way, for over two decades of posting on boston.com sports forums, patriotsfans.freeforums.net and finally this one... I have maintained that spending to the cap annually and not exceeding it was smart business. That history showed throwing money at said team and signing every overpriced free agent annually was poor cap management. For saying this I was called a "Bill Belichick apologist" a "honk" a "homer" and worse. But it never had anything to do with Bill, and I believe this now under Vrabel as I believed it then.

And to clear something up, the Patriots under Bill always spent money, it's just been so long since the early 2000's that you've forgotten what a luxury it is to have a rookie QB taking up 3% of the annual salary cap instead of 20-30% of it.

The Pats aren't spending more now because Bill is gone, they're spending because they have the money and cap space. From 2005 to 2013 Brady as one of the highest paid players in the league, he didn't start taking less until 2014... and we saw how much easier it was to build a roster over that period.

As a fan I don't care about cash spending, I only care about cap spending... the only thing that annoyed me was things that could affect player performance on the field. Facilities, weight room, antiquated plane seats... there is absolutely no excuse for skimping on that as the 2nd highest valued franchise in the NFL. There's no salary cap on coaches and amenities.
 
Ok hang on…

Do these look like 1974 cramped seats? Or ANY seats on a commercial flight? Every one of those is nicer than the Delta “first class” seat I literally sat in last week.

Could Bob upgrade the wifi and make the seats a little wider? Yes.

Is this a bit of spoiled-assed athletes *****ing because they have no idea what a commercial flight is even like anymore? Also yes.
They look like the same seats refurbished. I'm not 6'6" 320 pounds, so I'd fit in them fairly well.
 
Who said anything about prior to 1994 when Kraft bought the team? Nobody.

The Patriots were near dead last in cash spending under Parcells and Carroll, which is exactly what I said.

The NFLPA voted the Patriots the cheapest franchise multiple years, Pete Carroll outright called Kraft cheap. How's that my fault?

The fans have nothing to do with it, stop blaming fans for noticing what players and former employees are saying.

By the way, for over two decades of posting on boston.com sports forums, patriotsfans.freeforums.net and finally this one... I have maintained that spending to the cap annually and not exceeding it was smart business. That history showed throwing money at said team and signing every overpriced free agent annually was poor cap management. For saying this I was called a "Bill Belichick apologist" a "honk" a "homer" and worse. But it never had anything to do with Bill, and I believe this now under Vrabel as I believed it then.

And to clear something up, the Patriots under Bill always spent money, it's just been so long since the early 2000's that you've forgotten what a luxury it is to have a rookie QB taking up 3% of the annual salary cap instead of 20-30% of it.

The Pats aren't spending more now because Bill is gone, they're spending because they have the money and cap space. From 2005 to 2013 Brady as one of the highest paid players in the league, he didn't start taking less until 2014... and we saw how much easier it was to build a roster over that period.

As a fan I don't care about cash spending, I only care about cap spending... the only thing that annoyed me was things that could affect player performance on the field. Facilities, weight room, antiquated plane seats... there is absolutely no excuse for skimping on that as the 2nd highest valued franchise in the NFL. There's no salary cap on coaches and amenities.

Who said anything about prior to 1994? Not me. So I don't know. You tell me.

I said that modern free agency was implemented in 1993 AND that it didn't really start for like five or six years after that. So was talking about 1994-somewhere around 1998 or 1999.

And the NFLPA never ever voted the Pats the cheapest franchise. You are misrepresenting what the study shows. They vote on player experience. They do look at what a team is spending on that experience. One of the reasons the Patriots gets such a low rating is because Kraft spent like $100 million on a private jet for the team rather than spending a couple hundred grand to charter a plane every time the team travels. The NFLPA survey doesn't take into account that Kraft is spending $50 million on a new training facility. It doesn't reflect the Pats are spending $250 million on upgrading the stadium while teams like Buffalo and Chicago are asking their states or counties to shell out billions just to build them new stadiums.

And I am not trashing Belichick for his strategy. I am just talking about past spending habits that Kraft got a "cheap" label. I am pointing out Belichick had a frugal nature. It worked for 20 years. I am not trashing him. I am pointing out Kraft is certainly not cheap and got that label because of how Belichick ran the team.
 
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In 2000, Bill Belichick took over a team that was in salary cap hell. That was cleaned up the following season.

Here's a list of the 'toys' Bill pulled in for what turned out to be Brady's first year starting (and obviously a championship).

2001 Patriot Free Agents:
CB Terrell Buckley: Signed to strengthen the secondary.
G Mike Compton: Provided stability on the offensive line.
LB Bryan Cox: Provided veteran leadership to the defense.
FB Marc Edwards: Signed from Cleveland.
QB Damon Huard: Signed from Miami
LB Larry Izzo: Stolen from Miami
WR David Patten: Provided a playmaker at receiver.
LB Roman Phifer
DE Anthony Pleasant: Added depth and experience to the defensive line.
RB Antowain Smith: Key offseason addition to the backfield.
LB Mike Vrabel: Signed from Pittsburgh; became a defensive cornerstone.
DL Stephen Neal: Signed as a free agent from a wrestling background

And on a sidenote, let's not forget these 2001 draft studs.
2001 Draft
DE Richard Seymour
T Matt Light

If you were a fan at the time, Belichick was rightfully hailed a genius for signing all those players for the same price other teams used to sign one or two high priced free agents. That was a case of Belichick bargain shopping for older players with a little juice left in the tank or young guys who hadn't emerged. It changed the way people approached free agency. But it wasn't an example of Belichick spending a lot in free agency.
 
Who said anything about prior to 1994? Not me. So I don't know. You tell me.
You did, you brought up a lack of free agency prior to 1994... I never said anything about it. I was talking about the two coaches Bob hired prior to Belichick. Bob bought the team in 1994, at the start of collectively bargained free agency, what came before is irrelevant. Don't try and gaslight me, everything is time stamped above.
I said that modern free agency was implemented in 1993 AND that it didn't really start for like five or six years after that. So was talking about 1994-somewhere around 1998 or 1999.

And the NFLPA never ever voted the Pats the cheapest franchise. You are misrepresenting what the study shows. They vote on player experience. They do look at what a team is spending on that experience. One of the reasons the Patriots gets such a low rating is because Kraft spent like $100 million on a private jet for the team rather than spending a couple hundred grand to charter a plane every time the team travels. The NFLPA survey doesn't take into account that Kraft is spending $50 million on a new training facility. It doesn't reflect the Pats are spending $250 million on upgrading the stadium while teams like Buffalo and Chicago are asking their states of counties to shell out millions just to build them new stadiums.

And I am not trashing Belichick for his strategy. I am just talking about past spending habits that Kraft got a "cheap" label. I am pointing out Belichick had a frugal nature. It worked for 20 years. I am not trashing him. I am pointing out Kraft is certainly not cheap and got that label because of how Belichick ran the team.
The NFLPA voted it, Pete Carroll said it... and to be clear Bob is now spending on a new training facility after getting publicly shamed.

Now the owners have successfully blocked the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards after winning a grievance that claimed the surveys violated the Collective Bargaining Agreement by "disparaging NFL clubs and individuals." While the NFLPA is still allowed to conduct the surveys and share results internally with players and teams, it cannot publish the findings publicly. Who do you think headed this campaign up?

It's a shame, there's very little to keep these billionaires accountable... and god knows they hate being held accountable.
 
You did, you brought up a lack of free agency prior to 1994... I never said anything about it. I was talking about the two coaches Bob hired prior to Belichick. Bob bought the team in 1994, at the start of collectively bargained free agency, what came before is irrelevant. Don't try and gaslight me, everything is time stamped above.

The NFLPA voted it, Pete Carroll said it... and to be clear Bob is now spending on a new training facility after getting publicly shamed.

Now the owners have successfully blocked the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards after winning a grievance that claimed the surveys violated the Collective Bargaining Agreement by "disparaging NFL clubs and individuals." While the NFLPA is still allowed to conduct the surveys and share results internally with players and teams, it cannot publish the findings publicly. Who do you think headed this campaign up?

It's a shame, there's very little to keep these billionaires accountable... and god knows they hate being held accountable.

I said free agency started in 1993 and it took like half a decade for it to really start. You talked about from 1994 and I pointed out how most of the 1990s, few teams were spending on players other than their own players. I am not gaslighting you. You didn't comprehend what I was saying.

Kraft was trying to build a new state of the art stadium with his own money for most of the time Pete Carroll was head coach. So whether the players thought he was cheap or not, he clearly wasn't.

And the 2026 NFLPA survey was actually a better survey for Kraft and the Pats and showed improvement in player satisfaction. I seriously doubt that Kraft was part of the people blocking it. If Kraft was trying to block it, he would have blocked previous years where they had really bad scores.

And I don't care how billionaires treat the millionaires that work for them. I am not going to worry about the work conditions of a guy making tens of millions of dollars a year unless it affects his play on the field. If they don't like it, they can sign elsewhere when their contract is up. I will save my accountability concerns for the billionaires who have children working in sweatshops or factory workers working in unnecessarily dangerous conditions. I don't care that the carpet in the Patriots' locker room is worn and torn in a few places.
 
And I am not trashing Belichick for his strategy. I am just talking about past spending habits that Kraft got a "cheap" label. I am pointing out Belichick had a frugal nature. It worked for 20 years. I am not trashing him. I am pointing out Kraft is certainly not cheap and got that label because of how Belichick ran the team.
I don't think Belichick was frugal at all.

Team building, consistency, a solid middle class of players across the 22 positions, focus on performance (i.e. performance bonuses). These explain the strategy much more than being frugal.
 
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