Patriots Rumor OT: Maxx Crosby wants to play for Mike Vrabel UPDATE: Breer expects him to be traded this week with the Pats a favorite

Rob0729 said:

Brown was immediately given a top of the market contract after he was traded. And the Eagles won a Super Bowl with him.
Mack was a good trade. It wasn't Mack's fault the Bears decided to draft Trubisky over Mahomes.
The Dolphins had Mike McDaniel as head coach and no defense. Not Hill's fault.
Parsons was the Packers' defense. When he went down, the defense went from a great defense to an ok defense.
Allen didn't become an elite QB until he got Diggs and Diggs put up elite numbers four of the five years he was in Buffalo. The Bills were pretty damn close to going to a Super Bowl in the 2024 season.

My measurement for success for trading for an elitely paid player is that he plays at an elite level. No DE is going to make you a Super Bowl champion. Not even Lawrence Taylor in his prime. You still need to build a complete team.

And who said trading for an elite player like Crosby will screw up your team? It depends on the team. Crosby could be a key contributor on a Super Bowl team.

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Brown was traded in his rookie deal. We were talking about players traded while in top of the market contracts.
The bears were 34-31 with Mack and won zero playoff games. Do you think when they agreed to pay him
Top dollar and give up 2 1s they thought it would be fine to win zero playoff games?
You keep saying “not his fault” as if to pay a guy top dollar to make excuses.
Parsons hasn’t lasted a season. How is that a success?
Diggs was in Buffalo 4 years not 5. Do you think they expected to win a SB with him? Could they have if they didn’t trade away picks and pay him top dollar? We dint know but they didn’t with him.

Exactly. Trading picks and paying top dollar PREVENTS you from building a complete team.
It will screw up the team to the extent that it loses draft picks and cap space.
There are no examples I know of where doing so resulted in a key contributor to a SB winner. Overpaying (in trade and cap) for players is the most sure way to keep from building a winner.

Hugepatsfan said:

I feel like you're too focused on the cap numbers. The meat and potatoes of it is that he plays with you for 3 years - his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons - and you pay him $85.5M for it. You spread that $85.5M for 3 years of play over 4 years. You can divide that out how you like. I think that's a fair price to pay for him in terms of actual compensation and you can manage it over the cap however you want.

In my scenario his cap numbers on that $86.5M would be $7.5M in 2026, $17.2M in 2027, $43.7M in 2028 and then dead money of $17.2M in 2029. If you don't like the super high cap number in 2028 or the dead money in 2029 you can manage the cap differently.

Overall though I think $85.5M for Crosby's next 3 seasons is fine value though.

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The whole issue is the cap numbers.
Those cap hits prevent you from upgrading the rest of your team as do the picks you gave away. Spreading it out to mortgage the future just makes it worse, because noe you have to pay 60 mill to have him 1 year or 90 to have him 2

Hugepatsfan said:

I feel like you're too focused on the cap numbers. The meat and potatoes of it is that he plays with you for 3 years - his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons - and you pay him $85.5M for it. You spread that $85.5M for 3 years of play over 4 years. You can divide that out how you like. I think that's a fair price to pay for him in terms of actual compensation and you can manage it over the cap however you want.

In my scenario his cap numbers on that $86.5M would be $7.5M in 2026, $17.2M in 2027, $43.7M in 2028 and then dead money of $17.2M in 2029. If you don't like the super high cap number in 2028 or the dead money in 2029 you can manage the cap differently.

Overall though I think $85.5M for Crosby's next 3 seasons is fine value though.

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Those cap hits in 28 and 29 are killers. You'd damn well better have a set roster by then, because you're only bringing in draft picks, and guys who can replace the guys you have to let go. (28 is Maye's option year, and 29 would be the first year of his extension, both will be serious money, considering he's made an All-pro team)

Ring 6 said:

Because he is a minority owner and a full time broadcaster.
What makes you doubt it?

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His competitive, controlling nature. Neither of the things you mention would preclude him from making these type of decisions. Do I think he's in the building making day to day decisions on the minutia of running a football team? No. Do I think he's the guiding force in the front office? Yep. He can do that from anywhere in the world on a daily basis.

TommyD4207 said:

Those cap hits in 28 and 29 are killers. You'd damn well better have a set roster by then, because you're only bringing in draft picks, and guys who can replace the guys you have to let go. (28 is Maye's option year, and 29 would be the first year of his extension, both will be serious money, considering he's made an All-pro team)

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So don't spread the cap hits out like that. You don't have to convert all of his 2026 and 2027 compensation to pro rated bonuses like I did. Or you can do that but rather than use the extra space just roll it over to cover 2028 and 2029 such that he has a higher cap number but you have a higher adjusted cap because your rollover is higher. All the same.

You can manage the cap how you see fit. The crux of it is that you pay him $85.5M to play for you for the next three years the way his deal is set up. You can defer none of that to 2029 if you prefer, you could defer a huge chunk of it. All depends on what else they plan to do with the rosters those years. On the contract, it just comes down to out of whatever amount of money they're going to spend the next three years, is $85.5M of it on Crosby worth it? I think so. The cap hits on that are just accounting timing really.

My issue is that to pay him that ON TOP OF giving up the picks, it only makes sense if you're going for a pretty aggressive win now window. So for it to make sense, you really have to be trying to maximize what you can add NOW. They have to decide if that makes sense. Obviously there's long term cost to that, but I also think they could build a legit SB contender now if they went the ultra aggressive route.

What if crossby ends up just recovering for next 2 years like von miller. Don't take such a huge risk giving away assets and 30 million. It's too big a gamble.

Hugepatsfan said:

I feel like you're too focused on the cap numbers. The meat and potatoes of it is that he plays with you for 3 years - his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons - and you pay him $85.5M for it. You spread that $85.5M for 3 years of play over 4 years. You can divide that out how you like. I think that's a fair price to pay for him in terms of actual compensation and you can manage it over the cap however you want.

In my scenario his cap numbers on that $86.5M would be $7.5M in 2026, $17.2M in 2027, $43.7M in 2028 and then dead money of $17.2M in 2029. If you don't like the super high cap number in 2028 or the dead money in 2029 you can manage the cap differently.

Overall though I think $85.5M for Crosby's next 3 seasons is fine value though.

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That’s market value for top players. I’m not sure what people are expecting for the cost of elite players. This isn’t a situation where it’s a mid level player making elite level money.

TommyD4207 said:

Those cap hits in 28 and 29 are killers. You'd damn well better have a set roster by then, because you're only bringing in draft picks, and guys who can replace the guys you have to let go. (28 is Maye's option year, and 29 would be the first year of his extension, both will be serious money, considering he's made an All-pro team)

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Yeah, you want to get that extension as soon as you can so that by the time he's past his option year, the cap will have grown enough not to make his cap so terrible.

Drunken Cicerone said:

This team needs to solidify the trenches. Become scary

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What’s scary is sacking cap space faster than you sack QBs. And that’s what this thread is arguing about.

In other words, don’t wait for cap hell in a few years, choose cap hell sooner rather than later.

Hugepatsfan said:

So don't spread the cap hits out like that. You don't have to convert all of his 2026 and 2027 compensation to pro rated bonuses like I did. Or you can do that but rather than use the extra space just roll it over to cover 2028 and 2029 such that he has a higher cap number but you have a higher adjusted cap because your rollover is higher. All the same.

You can manage the cap how you see fit. The crux of it is that you pay him $85.5M to play for you for the next three years the way his deal is set up. You can defer none of that to 2029 if you prefer, you could defer a huge chunk of it. All depends on what else they plan to do with the rosters those years. On the contract, it just comes down to out of whatever amount of money they're going to spend the next three years, is $85.5M of it on Crosby worth it? I think so. The cap hits on that are just accounting timing really.

My issue is that to pay him that ON TOP OF giving up the picks, it only makes sense if you're going for a pretty aggressive win now window. So for it to make sense, you really have to be trying to maximize what you can add NOW. They have to decide if that makes sense. Obviously there's long term cost to that, but I also think they could build a legit SB contender now if they went the ultra aggressive route.

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Ring 6 said:

Brown was traded in his rookie deal. We were talking about players traded while in top of the market contracts.
The bears were 34-31 with Mack and won zero playoff games. Do you think when they agreed to pay him
Top dollar and give up 2 1s they thought it would be fine to win zero playoff games?
You keep saying “not his fault” as if to pay a guy top dollar to make excuses.
Parsons hasn’t lasted a season. How is that a success?
Diggs was in Buffalo 4 years not 5. Do you think they expected to win a SB with him? Could they have if they didn’t trade away picks and pay him top dollar? We dint know but they didn’t with him.

Exactly. Trading picks and paying top dollar PREVENTS you from building a complete team.
It will screw up the team to the extent that it loses draft picks and cap space.
There are no examples I know of where doing so resulted in a key contributor to a SB winner. Overpaying (in trade and cap) for players is the most sure way to keep from building a winner.

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I don't your point about me saying that it isn't a DE's fault they didn't win a Super Bowl. By logic, if the the Pats give Gonzalez a top of the market contract and the Pats never win a Super Bowl during that contract that it was a bust resigning and the Pats should have traded Gonzalez away for draft picks to get a several players who would win a Super Bowl. So in fact, trading for a guy like Crosby already under a deal is better than trading for a Parsons who has to get a huge deal on top of it.

Brown and Hill were traded away because their teams didn't want to pay the second contract. Both the Dolphins and Eagles traded for these players with the specific intent of paying them top of the money contracts immediately after the trade. There is little difference from trading for a guy who already signed the deal a year earlier except for the fact that the guy who already signed the deal comes cheaper since the acquiring team doesn't have to pay the huge signing bonus or have it count against their cap.

Again, one player does not mean you are going to win a Super Bowl unless you are trading for an elite QB. You trade for an elite player in another position and build around him. If the team does a crap job doing that, it isn't the player's fault if he plays elite.

As for Diggs, we see what the Bills are like post Diggs. They haven't gotten to the Conference championships again.

As for Parsons, he transformed the Packers' defense. One player. That is a successful trade. Can't control injuries. He isn't an injury prone player.

n1997y said:

In other words, don’t wait for cap hell in a few years, choose cap hell sooner rather than later.

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Cap hell is very dramatic. The team is in very good cap situation.

A 3 year, $85.5M deal for an elite player at a premium position is soooooooooooooooooooooooo far away from putting this team into a precarious cap situation it's not even funny. Eventually there's a breaking point but worrying about the cap ramifications of trading for Crosby is silly at this point.

Hugepatsfan said:

Cap hell is very dramatic. The team is in very good cap situation.

A 3 year, $85.5M deal for an elite player at a premium position is soooooooooooooooooooooooo far away from putting this team into a precarious cap situation it's not even funny. Eventually there's a breaking point but worrying about the cap ramifications of trading for Crosby is silly at this point.

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Not worrying about the cap consequences of any trade or signing is always silly.

You’re advocating a dramatic signing, hoping for dramatic results on the field.

I’m just pointing out that dramatic moves have dramatic financial consequences too.

When you suggest “structure it this way to make it work” and when people point out problems you then answer “so don’t structure it that way” you’re being cavalier and careless in a way that raises questions about whether and how it will really work.

Ring 6 said:

Competing against Jerry jones has been a profitable venture for a long time

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On the field.

But tough to beat in stupidity.

n1997y said:

Not worrying about the cap consequences of any trade or signing is always silly.

You’re advocating a dramatic signing, hoping for dramatic results on the field.

I’m just pointing out that dramatic moves have dramatic financial consequences too.

When you suggest “structure it this way to make it work” and when people point out problems you then answer “so don’t structure it that way” you’re being cavalier and careless in a way that raises questions about whether and how it will really work.

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This team currently only has one top of the market contract in Milton Williams. Maye and Gonzalez figure to eventually be extended but those deals will be structured like every other contract with lower cap hits in the early years so not a ton of overlap with guys we sign this offseason even anyway.

I would say this team is like 3 Crosby type of contracts away from being in any sort of precarious "cap hell". Obviously there are tradeoffs or "consequences" of each and every type of contract in the sense that every one you add is one closer to that limit and when you choose to invest in top players like that it hits what you can spend on depth/roster balance.

So if you want a more long-winded answer, yes adding Crosby does have an impact on what else we can do. But again, I think we're like 3 Crosby type additions away from where I'd really be worried about our cap situation over the long term. By NFL standards our cap sheet is pretty remarkedly clean. It's the silver lining of how horrendous we were at drafting overall in recent years because we don't have hardly any money on the books. We haven't used void years either so there's not this looming dead money cliff like there is for other teams. Our cap sheet is in pretty amazing position so we're just not at a stage where I'd have any serious reservations about adding a mega contract to the books. The only "consequence" I see of it is that yes, it does put you one mega contract closer to being in a spot where you should be worried about mega contracts.

They’re in a much different situation than last year when they decided to not even bid on Parsons. Look at some point if you want to get better you’re going to have to pay a premium on talent. I’d rather trade for proven studs like Crosby or Brown than overpay for someone who could be one in Alec Pierce in FA or someone who is decent but will be overpaid by year two. The likelihood of these two falling off dramatically by the end of next year is slim.

Give Kraft A Hand said:

They’re in a much different situation than last year when they decided to not even bid on Parsons. Look at some point if you want to get better you’re going to have to pay a premium on talent. I’d rather trade for proven studs like Crosby or Brown than overpay for someone who could be one in Alec Pierce in FA or someone who is decent but will be overpaid by year two. The likelihood of these two falling off dramatically by the end of next year is slim.

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It's the pick plus the money.

This is year two of the rebuild. I'd rather try to find our own Crosby in the draft than give up a first round pick.

Which won't be enough because someone will offer a higher pick.

Family said:

It's the pick plus the money.

This is year two of the rebuild. I'd rather try to find our own Crosby in the draft than give up a first round pick.

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My friend.... they went to the Super Bowl last year. This is not a team engaged in a rebuild. This is a team looking for that 1 or 2 pieces which puts them over the top.

Don't trade high picks away for older players. Stick to the plan, build through the draft and develop young players, and use free agency to get a special player when you can, and band aid players like Moses and Bradbury when necessary. With the rise in the cap I think Lindebaum is unlikely to hit free agency. If he doesn't then try to sign a guard like McGovern, and an Edge like Jaelen Philips, then use the rest to sign Chiasson, Hawkins, and Gonzalez. .

XLIX said:

My friend.... they went to the Super Bowl last year. This is not a team engaged in a rebuild. This is a team looking for that 1 or 2 pieces which puts them over the top.

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I get that. But they had a lot of luck on injuries and opponents, which doesn't mean they are not a championship contender.

How about this? These moves don't often work.

Trading a #1 and paying 30M a year isn't the best way to attain those 1-2 pieces, unless you are on your last legs as a contender.