Cornerback Assessment/Questions

One-If-By-Sea said:

I do not think a 5'8" guy is going to play FS, and we are all set at SS, so I highly doubt the Pats drafted Marcus Jones to play safety. I think he will be a returner and a slot corner, although he did play some WR in college so maybe some slot WR? If he transitions to a slot WR I would guess that is next year at the earliest.

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I think m jones is going to get a shot outside. He played outside in college.

TheRainMaker said:

However, if the rookies show any promise, this will be Jon Jones' last year. Bill will not pay him again, as he's checked out quite a bit in big games when the Pats needed him the most. See Aqib Talib.

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I agree that this is Jones' last year here under the current terms of his contract.

Checking out, however, is a bit harsh... If it weren't for the ****ing execrable GeeNo ****ing Gruesome missing an easy sack of Mariota late in the Divisional round, after the game had already been won, then Jones doesn't get injured making the tackle on the WR; and unless he became injured during the AFCC vs Jax, then he would've been dressed for the SB vs Philthy and we Still ****ing Win, even without Malcolm, because Jones also would've tackled Agholor on 3rd down...unlike Jonny Badmostly...

Ochmed Jones said:

Outside corners - mills, Mitchell and butler
Slot corners - Jon jones
Either - jack jones, wade
Start year on pup - Marcus jones
Practice squad - hafford

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Why?

Ring 6 said:

Umm Williams has played in 36 games.

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And was Awful in Every. Single. One.

Ring 6 said:

Umm Williams has played in 36 games.

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Williams has had lots and lots of reps. And that is NOT a plus for him,

Jackson left leaving one spot open. And, Jon Jones is coming back.

However, Williams has been SO weak that we have brought in 2 draftees plus Mitchell and Buter.

mgteich said:

NINE defensive backs that can play the positions is plenty. We have 4 very good safeties in addition to the 5 corners, one of which will be inactive in each game.

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What level of play do you expect from the CB group?

We sure don’t want another Jordan Richard or Cyrus Jones type of performance

captain stone said:

Why?

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Coming off of double shoulder surgery and might not be ready. Even if cleared for contact, not going to be ready for nfl hitting.

tasmlab said:

Can we get Stefon Diggs' or Tyreek Hill's opinion on our cornerback group? Just curious...

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Jon Jones shutdown Hill in the 2018 AFCC and now Tua is Hill's QB.

hornetfb85 said:

Let's talk cornerbacks and where some might slot in now and in the future. Yes, I know its the offseason, yes it is very early, just bored at work and wanted to think football for a few minutes.

Jalen Mills - Roster lock for 22, playing for a job in 23 (1.2 dead/5.3 savings)
Malcolm Butler - Likely on the 22 roster, playing for a job in 23 (250k dead/2.5 mil savings)
Jack Jones - On the roster
Terrance Mitchell/JoeJuan Williams -

Jonathan Jones - Likely on 22 roster / could be a surprise cut / D. McCourty replacement
Marcus Jones - Slot or outside
Myles Bryant/Shaun Wade - See T. Mitchell/J. Williams note

Just my opinion, which is 95% likely to be wrong.

Mills
Butler
Jones
Mitchell
JJ
MJ
SW

Once again...very likely wrong.

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You're missing Devin Hafford

Ring 6 said:

Umm Williams has played in 36 games.

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You are right. My bad! Though it is nothing to write home about.... Especially for a 2nd round pick.
He has a 2.1m cap hit for 2022 season. He may not be around....

It is a weak CB group, but Jonathan Jones could still be cut, if the young guys don't look like they came out of the 2019 Patriots draft..

Family said:

It is a weak CB group, but Jonathan Jones could still be cut, if the young guys don't look like they came out of the 2019 Patriots draft..

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Sure, cut a top nickel back because a rookie might be OK. NOT

To be more clear, if BOTH Jack Jones and Marcus Jones (recovering from 2 recent operations) project as 2023 starters Jonathn Jones would be cut.
He could be on the PUP list, but not cut.

Most of us do NOT think that we have an excess of quality CB's.

If the rookies Jones look like strong 2022 contribut0rs, Mitchell would go, and Wade, and Williams, and perhaps even Butler (although he is more likely to stay than the others.

hornetfb85 said:

And now I'm reading more things on these guys, thinking Jack Jones could be more of a slot guy. Thinking Jonathan Jones sticks in 22 and these young guys take over in 23 is the likely scenario.

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I’m thinking more of Jack Jones being one of the better surprises of the Patriots draft. You take out his early troubles and he stays at USC I think your looking at a 2nd round pick. Of course you can’t do that but this player had a lot of interest from a number of teams throughout the draft process. Sure they took him early according to the so called experts, but I’ve seen a lot of assessments that he has some elite abilities. I’m not saying he is going to be the next JC Jackson, nobody can predict that. But I do like him quite a bit and was hoping they would draft him. Especially to the Patriots who’s coaches that have had some luck with cb’s in the mid to late rounds. Definitely my binkie and hoping he has what it takes to play the outside.

zipster9 said:

Not impressed with DBs right now...

Joejuan Williams, the second-rounder who’s played in just one game over his first three seasons..

Another loser!!

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I think you meant to say that JoeJuan Williams only STARTED 1 game in 3 seasons. He played in 36 of 49 games in 3 season.

I'm NOT saying Williams is "all-world" or anything., Just that you're misrepresenting him.

Williams is a reserve corner on the outside. He does a decent job. Opposing QBs were 10 of 18 when targetting him last year. That's just 55%. Over 3 seasons, he's given up 2 TDs on 19 completions. He'll be fighting Butler, Hafford, Jack Jones, Wade, and Mitchell for an Outside Corner spot.
Wade offers value in that, as others mentioned, he played both the slot and outside in College. He was a significantly better slot corner. However he did line-up outside 9 times for the Parts. No, it's not a big sample size at all.

The 3 players "guaranteed" spots out of the 9 CBs, are Mills, Marcus Jones, and Jack Jones, Everything else is up for grabs, imho. And that includes whether the Pats carry 5 or 6 corners. Not including Justin Bethel.

DaBruinz said:

I think you meant to say that JoeJuan Williams only STARTED 1 game in 3 seasons. He played in 36 of 49 games in 3 season.

I'm NOT saying Williams is "all-world" or anything., Just that you're misrepresenting him.

Williams is a reserve corner on the outside. He does a decent job. Opposing QBs were 10 of 18 when targetting him last year. That's just 55%. Over 3 seasons, he's given up 2 TDs on 19 completions. He'll be fighting Butler, Hafford, Jack Jones, Wade, and Mitchell for an Outside Corner spot.
Wade offers value in that, as others mentioned, he played both the slot and outside in College. He was a significantly better slot corner. However he did line-up outside 9 times for the Parts. No, it's not a big sample size at all.

The 3 players "guaranteed" spots out of the 9 CBs, are Mills, Marcus Jones, and Jack Jones, Everything else is up for grabs, imho. And that includes whether the Pats carry 5 or 6 corners. Not including Justin Bethel.

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I would think that Jonathan Jones has a guaranteed spot if he is healthy.

Marcus Jones will be an exciting return man but at 5’8” he is going to be targeted and teams will try to match him up against tall WRs.

Pats CB size is going to be a problem

Sam Bam Cunningham said:

Marcus Jones will be an exciting return man but at 5’8” he is going to be targeted and teams will try to match him up against tall WRs.

Pats CB size is going to be a problem

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I tried looking at other 5'8 corners who've done well in the league in the last 10 years or so. Best I could find was Nickell Robey-Coleman. Not the most exciting, but the guy's had a pretty decent career. I'd take that for sure from our 3rd rounder.

To clarify, I'm not saying he's the best or only good 5'8 corner there is, just the only one I found.

mgteich said:

Sure, cut a top nickel back because a rookie might be OK. NOT

To be more clear, if BOTH Jack Jones and Marcus Jones (recovering from 2 recent operations) project as 2023 starters Jonathn Jones would be cut.
He could be on the PUP list, but not cut.

Most of us do NOT think that we have an excess of quality CB's.

If the rookies Jones look like strong 2022 contribut0rs, Mitchell would go, and Wade, and Williams, and perhaps even Butler (although he is more likely to stay than the others.

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There's often a surprise cut and this meets the financial qualifications, despite what we BOTH think of the current CB situation.

Perhaps they bring in another veteran, or if the youngsters look good enough, Bill decides to rebuild now.

Isn't this how they do things?

BTW I am not saying this will happen, just that it's on the radar.

Sam Bam Cunningham said:

Marcus Jones will be an exciting return man but at 5’8” he is going to be targeted and teams will try to match him up against tall WRs.

Pats CB size is going to be a problem

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He has done well in college against all WR's, both as a slot and as an outside corner.

mgteich said:

Williams has had lots and lots of reps. And that is NOT a plus for him,

Jackson left leaving one spot open. And, Jon Jones is coming back.

However, Williams has been SO weak that we have brought in 2 draftees plus Mitchell and Buter.

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I'd like to posit that we've been lacking in CB depth despite the loss of Jackson. Look at last year. We were using Myles Bryant as a "slot" guy and he was horrible when we needed him most against the Bills.

Having Marcus Jones to replace Bryant is a win for the Pats.

Having Mitchell, Wade, Williams, and Butler battle it out for the 2 remaining CB spots helps to ensure that the pats have the best option starting at CB and coming off the bench in the event of an injury.