Bill the GM/HC

1)As savvy and ruthless as there is with contracts. Who's been better during the salary cap era?

2)Multiple HOF players drafted or borderline HOF. Multiple UDFA stars that have gotten paid. Through two decades.

3) Pats have been as balanced and talented as there is for decades.

Obviously Miller is discounting Nick. So let's play along ...

We all know Bill has his misses. Big misses at times. That said, from just a GM standpoint, who is better collectively? Drafting, contracts, FA, trades, competitive-balanced team ...

Needless to say having Brady helped but there's so much else to look at and make a judgement. Also I think Brady's contracts are relevant, no?

How is Bill as a GM? Is anyone better, who? Let's hear it.

Bill's way worked with the best QB of all time who carried some mediocre teams. Jury is out how it would work with only marginal or normal QB play. It was an absolute fluke a QB like Brady didn't demand the brinks truck.

With that said, I think BB has had a ton blunders with GM/coaching that prevented this team from getting 10 super bowl wins. They underachieved with the core they had between 2005-2013. And you could not only argue BB's defenses collapsed in majority of their Super Bowl victories, but in almost all Super Bowls they've played in with Brady doing all he can to bail them out.

And it's difficult to say who's a better GM as it always comes down to how good your QB is. It's like saying Jerry Krause is the best because he had Michael Jordan. I'd say Pete Carroll/John Schneider and the Seahawks come to mind. The most recent Super Bowl winner that has had success afterward. But again, how much of their success is because of Wilson?

This board and it’s tireless defense of Bill’s GM skills. Overall has he been a good GM? I would say yes. His trades and 2nd/3rd tier FA signings put him in the “good” category for me but I don’t think he’s some superstar GM the way some on here do. The whole “hUrr SiX rInGs!!” defense of his drafting takes away from his skills as a coach as well as the fact that he had the greatest QB to ever play. He’s made some great picks over the years and some bad ones like any GM but at this point I don’t think he’s had a good draft class in about 4-5 years.

Matt Miller is one of the dumbest analysts and GMs in the history of not just the NFL but all of pro sports. And college sports. He has zero clue and whatever he says the opposite is true since he's always wrong.

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203Pat said:

This board and it’s tireless defense of Bill’s GM skills. Overall has he been a good GM? I would say yes. His trades and 2nd/3rd tier FA signings put him in the “good” category for me but I don’t think he’s some superstar GM the way some on here do. The whole “hUrr SiX rInGs!!” defense of his drafting takes away from his skills as a coach as well as the fact that he had the greatest QB to ever play. He’s made some great picks over the years and some bad ones like any GM but at this point I don’t think he’s had a good draft class in about 4-5 years.

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Yeah let's keep it as a GM. And you know I don't use the "6 Ringz" hammer. Strictly GM moves.

Recently his drafts haven't been fire but 2017 was a crazy draft. Garcia and Rivers dealing with major injuries. Maybe they get blame for AG but Rivers has had **** luck. Wise has been decent. All mid round picks. I like the last 2 drafts but it's still early.
Ok so Bill definitely has his misses but consider Sey, Wilfork, Jones, DMC, HT, Gronk, Samuel, Slater, Edleman.

Bolded are HOF or very close. Italics are a tier below but will have strongholds among fans. 7 besides Brady is kinda nuts to me. Then you have Light, Koppen, Givens, Thuney, Warren, Branch. All after round 1.

Just wondering who has multiple HOF picks under their belt? Schneider has 3-4 (Wilson, Wags, Sherman, Kam) with a bunch of other sweet picks.

Loomis has been absolutely killing it. Howie. Colbert and Veach. Robinson and Ballard have been great.

I get the wanting more, recently from the draft but it's not fair to Bill to judge him short term.

And again, who's better from a collective standpoint? Personally I think hes been top 5 - #1 but am open to other opinions.

TheRainMaker said:

Bill's way worked with the best QB of all time who carried some mediocre teams. Jury is out how it would work with only marginal or normal QB play. It was an absolute fluke a QB like Brady didn't demand the brinks truck.

With that said, I think BB has had a ton blunders with GM/coaching that prevented this team from getting 10 super bowl wins. They underachieved with the core they had between 2005-2013. And you could not only argue BB's defenses collapsed in majority of their Super Bowl victories, but in almost all Super Bowls they've played in with Brady doing all he can to bail them out.

And it's difficult to say who's a better GM as it always comes down to how good your QB is. It's like saying Jerry Krause is the best because he had Michael Jordan. I'd say Pete Carroll/John Schneider and the Seahawks come to mind. The most recent Super Bowl winner that has had success afterward. But again, how much of their success is because of Wilson?

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I agree 1000% about Tom never maximizing his true worth to the Patriots. Absolutely amazing. I mean I don't or shouldn't have to point out recent events to magnify that point.

Schneider has been unreal and has some major gems. Sherman, Wagner, Wilson, Malcolm Smith, Turbin, Tate, Kam, K.J. Wright, Maxwell, Lockett, Frank Clark all after round 2.

He's had some duds recently but again I can't discount the above and other big moves he's made.

Loomis and Robinson have been great too.

Belichick goes for players who will work well with what he wants to do. They don't have to be the best athletes. They need to be good at football. Don't know what happened to Trey Flowers in Detroit but he was exactly what Belichick wanted at DE. He couldn't necessarily play that position for most teams.

No coach and no GM is perfect, ever!

in bb’s case, when you have the greatest qb to ever play this game, you can afford to take gambles. Sometimes those gambles paid off, gronkowski. Most times they did not!

at the end of the day, nine Super Bowl appearances speaks louder than any nonsense being uttered by the jealous fools out there!

upstater1 said:

Belichick goes for players who will work well with what he wants to do. They don't have to be the best athletes. They need to be good at football. Don't know what happened to Trey Flowers in Detroit but he was exactly what Belichick wanted at DE. He couldn't necessarily play that position for most teams.

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is that what it was when he picked darius butler and ron brace over connor barwin?

Ochmed Jones said:

No coach and no GM is perfect, ever!

in bb’s case, when you have the greatest qb to ever play this game, you can afford to take gambles. Sometimes those gambles paid off, gronkowski. Most times they did not!

at the end of the day, nine Super Bowl appearances speaks louder than any nonsense being uttered by the jealous fools out there!

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was taking jermaine cunningham over carlos dunlap 'a gamble'? sounded more like he was doing someone a favor

IllegalContact said:

is that what it was when he picked darius butler and ron brace over connor barwin?

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Trying to figure out if you're being serious.

upstater1 said:

Trying to figure out if you're being serious.

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Maybe someone should tell him ...

upstater1 said:

Trying to figure out if you're being serious.

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it’s important

Who is the GM getting those deals??

BaconGrundleCandy said:

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Who is the GM getting those deals??

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This guy gets dumber by the tweet.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Schneider has been unreal and has some major gems. Sherman, Wagner, Wilson, Malcolm Smith, Turbin, Tate, Kam, K.J. Wright, Maxwell, Lockett, Frank Clark all after round 2.

He's had some duds recently but again I can't discount the above and other big moves he's made.

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They built an amazing core on D in the early 2010’s. It reminds me of what BB did in early 2000’s then the duds occurred between 2005-2009 and the core eventually broke up.

Seattle has had some awful drafts lately, but has been covered up by Wilson’s elite play. Carroll and Schneider both look good.

Aaron Rodgers carried McCarthy and Thompson for years. Thompson was destroying that team and his firing was long overdue.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Loomis and Robinson have been great too.

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Loomis has done well lately, but they weren’t doing too well after their Super Bowl win in 2009. They had some bad teams.

I’m brain farting on who Robinson is.

upstater1 said:

Don't know what happened to Trey Flowers in Detroit but he was exactly what Belichick wanted at DE. He couldn't necessarily play that position for most teams.

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Because he’s more effective as a guy than the guy. Detroit’s defense got worse since he arrived.

I see Flowers coming back in 1-2 years after he’s a cap casualty when Patricia and Quinn are both fired.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

View attachment 27804

Who is the GM getting those deals??

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Correcting Dave Brown, Bill Polian won 3 in a row with the Bills.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Bolded are HOF or very close. Italics are a tier below but will have strongholds among fans. 7 besides Brady is kinda nuts to me. Then you have Light, Koppen, Givens, Thuney, Warren, Branch. All after round 1.

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I’d throw Vollmer and Flowers (who I s*** on frequently) in there. Where Flowers was picked, he was a very good player. How much he was paid, not so much.

Vollmer was an excellent T.

Maybe I am wrong but wasn't GM BB the one who drafted this TB12 guy? You can't go any better than getting the GOAT in the 6th round, GM level 9999

People look back in the drafts and say oh yeah he should have picked this and that guy, its easy to judge afterwards which player excelled better, but in general its kind of a lottery you can't have a homerun with every pick.

BB had the worst picks in second rounds when he was chasing, I don't know what, with some of the safeties/ST.

He's not a bad GM. Generally does not whiff on first round picks when they're not McDaniels bust picks, at least he gets guys with high floors. He's weak in round2 because of a flaw in his value groupings method ends up often taking the worst guys left in his 'top' tier. Where he shines is getting usable players in round 4 and after. And getting so many excellent undrafted guys, over and over, is a huge skill and advantage as a GM.

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