Marcus Cannon

RobertWeathers · Dec 18, 2018

maineman209 said:
Jeff Howe' personal film review has Thuney with 2 sacks in 976 snaps.

Other plays have it as 0. Whatever. 2 sacks in almost 1000 snaps is outstanding.

maineman209 · Dec 18, 2018

robertweathers said:
He was sacked 35 times last year.

When Cannon missed 9 of 16 regular season games.

RobertWeathers · Dec 18, 2018

AndyJohnson said:
Cap space isn’t the decision, new money is.

Cutting him saves 4.75 mill. No way we get a better player for that.

He has played 11 games and 71% of the snaps this year.
Aside from last year he has missed 9 games in 6 years.

We wouldn’t be 9-5 if he didn’t play.

Cap space, dead cap space and cash payout are all decision points

I dont where you see only 9 games missed. He missed 9 last year alone.

Kontradiction · Dec 18, 2018

robertweathers said:
Chipping and double teams are common. Especially combo blocking on the inside.

They're less common when the coaching staff trusts the tackles to handle their men one on one. It allows you to sub out a guy like Allen in obvious passing situations to different personnel. Both tackles have frequently gotten help this year. When Allen was out, the decline in the pass protection was even more noticeable. There's a good reason for that.

RobertWeathers · Dec 18, 2018

BradyFTW! said:
Looking at 2019 and beyond and talking strictly in terms of what the team saves if he's cut is exactly what I've been doing this entire time, and exactly what you steadfastly refuse to do. You're getting hung up on his cap figure ($7.5M), while I insist on redirecting the conversation to the exact amount of money that the team saves if he's cut ($4.75M).

The Spotrac link you posted is 100% consistent with what I've been arguing this whole time, and does not support the argument you're attempting to make at all. It clearly states that he has a dead cap hit of $2.8M next year. Subtract that from his current cap hit and you get his marginal cap hit, which is $4.75M. That's the amount of money the Pats save by cutting him. Or, if you don't want to take my word for it, take Miguel's instead: Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2016 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

I understand the savings. I felt no need to cover it since the math is there. Cap hit - dead cap = cap savings.

RobertWeathers · Dec 18, 2018

KontradictioN said:
They're less common when the coaching staff trusts the tackles to handle their men one on one. It allows you to sub out a guy like Allen in obvious passing situations to different personnel. Both tackles have frequently gotten help this year. When Allen was out, the decline in the pass protection was even more noticeable. There's a good reason for that.

When Allen was out vs the NYJ and MN they didn't allow a sack. MIA was 2 sacks. One because Brady had a brain fart. I don't recall many throws under duress either.

luuked · Dec 18, 2018

TommyBrady12 said:
i prefer to use the eye test over PFF. if brady is getting hit too much, the o-line is an issue.

Except Brady is not getting hit very much. He is on route to the third least amount of sacks in his career. Only 2016 and 2009 were better. He is in the top 3 of least sacked players. QB hits are also not a concern.

If you think the OL is a real issue relative to the rest of the league then your eye test must suck. It is an elite unit relative to the rest of the league in 2018 especially in pass-pro.

maineman209 · Dec 18, 2018

robertweathers said:
Hes improved but to @ashley1992 point if he was cut next year and Bentley took all his reps the D would be better.

Good thing the Pats didn't do that this season.

Roberts has more than twice as many tackle/snap as HT does.

Roberts hits the 2019 cap for a whopping $745k in 2019.
HT hits the cap for $10.4M in 2019.

Regardless, how does it make sense for the Pats to cut a (now) proven-adequate relief/reserve/#3-#4 LB who's that cheap when the position is so thin in the first place? How does that magically make them "better"?

203Pat · Dec 18, 2018

luuked said:
Except Brady is not getting hit very much. He is on route to the third least amount of sacks in his career. Only 2016 and 2009 were better. He is in the top 3 of least sacked players. QB hits are also not a concern.

If you think the OL is a real issue relative to the rest of the league then your eye test must suck. It is an elite unit relative to the rest of the league in 2018 especially in pass-pro.

It’s weird, I haven’t thought that Brady has been hit that much this year but he has been doing a lot of his jittery fade-away throws and ducking into sacks early. I feel like he got away from that for a few years but it seems to be back.

maineman209 · Dec 18, 2018

robertweathers said:
Cap space, dead cap space and cash payout are all decision points

I dont where you see only 9 games missed. He missed 9 last year alone.

Yes. Cannon missed 9 of 16 regular season games in 2017, when Brady was sacked 35 times.

Cannon missed one of 16 regular season games in 2016, when Brady was sacked 15 times (in 12 games).

Cannon has missed three of 14 games this season and Brdy has been sacked 19 times.

Cannon missed most of his rookie season (2011) recovering from cancer. Since then, he's missed 19 of 111 regular season games (9 of those last season), and 3 of 15 post-season games (all of those last season).

SHOWTIME15 · Dec 18, 2018

luuked said:
Except Brady is not getting hit very much. He is on route to the third least amount of sacks in his career. Only 2016 and 2009 were better. He is in the top 3 of least sacked players. QB hits are also not a concern.

If you think the OL is a real issue relative to the rest of the league then your eye test must suck. It is an elite unit relative to the rest of the league in 2018 especially in pass-pro.

You’re probably right. i assumed he was getting hit a lot since he looks uncomfortable back there, much moreso than I’ve seen in the past.

luuked · Dec 18, 2018

TommyBrady12 said:
You’re probably right. i assumed he was getting hit a lot since he looks uncomfortable back there, much morso than I’ve seen in the past.

I completely agree that at times he seems uncomfortable. But this is not just a function of the OL being swiss cheese. It is truly a weird season on offense.

maineman209 · Dec 18, 2018

robertweathers said:
When Allen was out vs the NYJ and MN they didn't allow a sack. MIA was 2 sacks. One because Brady had a brain fart. I don't recall many throws under duress either.

The Pats also ran the ball 54% of the time in those two games. In the two games since, outside running has sputtered and the screen game has been mostly stuffed.

Mack Herron · Dec 18, 2018

SacPete1 · Dec 18, 2018

chasa said:
Do you need a glass of water friend?

.....yes I would thanks ....right after my cold shower.

farn · Dec 18, 2018

AndyJohnson said:
We are leading our division and working toward a first round bye.
Of course there is enough to work with.
Jesus you want to rebuild?

Perhaps I am open to the rebuild. Working towards a first round bye is great. So many franchises would be thrilled. This particular team, with lots of decorated players/coaches are not playing for fourth. Nor should they.

Do you believe this core has the makings of a champ ? I’m open to the possibility, but it is improbable. Is there enough here to be the 2019 champs ? Again, maybe. I trust BB has an idea of yes/no. If the answer is no - then changes are necessary.

farn · Dec 18, 2018

BradyFTW! said:
In theory I get where you're coming from, but in practice roster-building requires these kinds of compromises, and each of the five Super Bowl-winning rosters had multiple guys whose performances and contracts were suboptimal at best but who the Pats kept around because they might not be ideal, but for what they made and the baseline of productoin that they established their contracts were worthwhile.

While you need to seek value in every contract you sign up and down the roster, ultimately that isn't the goal but is only a means to making the real end goal more achievable. And the real end goal is building the best team that you can, which will always include a handful (at least) of contracts that don't live up to that standard simply because you have the resources available and those guys produce too. That's why Belichick does things like keep Otis Smith in 2001 (who ended up being instrumental to the first SB win), or sign Bobby Hamilton in 2001, or sign Ted Washington in 2003, or keep Tedy Bruschi post-2004, or sign Rodney Harrison in 2003, or keep Wilfork in 2014, or any of a dozen other moves.

I agree with much of your post. Almost all of those players were low cost pieces. Wilfork, the exception. Cannon is not a 20M$ player, but his numbers are high. Maybe he is worth it, maybe not.

Jimke · Dec 18, 2018

Cannon is probably unhappy he is not making Solder or even Mason money.

mgteich · Dec 18, 2018

Folks need to understand semantics and value.

There is absolutely no reason for Roberts not to be considered for 2019 at his almost minimum salary. After all, he would be our #4 LB behind Hightower, Van Noy and Bentley. And yes, he has produced OK as he has moved up to be our #3 LB. He is producing/contributing way beyond what we are paying for. For example is Hightower REALLY a better value? Is Clayborne or Shelton or Rivers or Davis or Simon? or even Malcolm Brown?

As we look forward to 2019, Roberts seems very likely to stay. There are lots to replace before we look to how to replace our #4 LB who costs about $750K and gets lots of tackles when he plays. He is a very "valuable" #4 LB.

maineman209 said:
Good thing the Pats didn't do that this season.

Roberts has more than twice as many tackle/snap as HT does.

Roberts hits the 2019 cap for a whopping $745k in 2019.
HT hits the cap for $10.4M in 2019.

Regardless, how does it make sense for the Pats to cut a (now) proven-adequate relief/reserve/#3-#4 LB who's that cheap when the position is so thin in the first place? How does that magically make them "better"?

Gronkowski123 · Dec 18, 2018

Cannon might be hurt

Marcus Cannon

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