Two Rookie Linebackers Is Enough

[patchick]

Despite his UDFA status, I think Guyton could easily be claimed by another team based on his ST work. The prospect of unleashing a 245/4.47 cannonball on coverage teams makes it a lot easier to take a chance on a raw developmental LB. Redd and Ruud, in contrast, I can't picture on anybody's 53 at this stage.

There are a lot of interdependent pieces to the overall LB puzzle. Alexander was an easier cut back when Tank was taking the coverage ILB role. WR Aiken is a potential Izzo replacement...how badly is he hurt? Etc.

 

[spacecrime]

Linebacker is the best place to get that youth and speed. You vastly overate the "experience" factor.

Never. You could not possibly over-rate theexperience factor when addressing BB linebackers.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

I would not use the words Hobson and Solid right now - He is not anywhere near solid at this point

 

[JSn]

Never. You could not possibly over-rate theexperience factor when addressing BB linebackers.

Exactly. As I think Bill said (someone did, anyway) the Vet's get their speed from accurate and quick play diagnosis. Very little reason to change gears when they know what's coming. A Bruschi running the right direction the first time vs. a fast Mayo having to change directions is almost the same thing.

Either way, getting pounded by a Linebacker is sucky.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Never. You could not possibly over-rate theexperience factor when addressing BB linebackers.

Yep, Bru was 2 steps ahead of Mayo, in some cases 3. On the other hand, I don't think we can over-rate the value of speed/size when talking about BB linebackers either, which is why I was watching the "mental" game Mayo and Guyton had Thursday and came away quite hopeful.

 

[14thDragon]

Despite his UDFA status, I think Guyton could easily be claimed by another team based on his ST work. The prospect of unleashing a 245/4.47 cannonball on coverage teams makes it a lot easier to take a chance on a raw developmental LB. Redd and Ruud, in contrast, I can't picture on anybody's 53 at this stage.

There are a lot of interdependent pieces to the overall LB puzzle. Alexander was an easier cut back when Tank was taking the coverage ILB role. WR Aiken is a potential Izzo replacement...how badly is he hurt? Etc.

I think if Redd can continue to get into the backfield in the preseason, then a team will claim him. Same as with Rodgers last year. Teams will take chances on guys that can rush the quarterback. Rudd, has not even been on the feidl to impress anyone yet. Who knows what he can do yet. (I certainly don't.)

Alexander can't cover. When has he done well as an ILB in a game? He is a Special Teamer only and will never amount to anything as a coverage linebacker.

Never. You could not possibly over-rate theexperience factor when addressing BB linebackers.

Chad Brown, Monty Beisel. Experieced free agents that did not do squat. Experience means nothing if it does not have some talent to go with it. Alexander and Izzo are nice special teamers that will never be linebackers.

Hobson is a question mark right now.

Crable, Guyton, and Redd are showing some talent. I want to keep that talent and develop it.

 

[patchick]

Alexander can't cover. When has he done well as an ILB in a game? He is a Special Teamer only and will never amount to anything as a coverage linebacker.

I pretty much agree, but who do you put in that role now with Tank gone?

 

[14thDragon]

I pretty much agree, but who do you put in that role now with Tank gone?

Mayo.

I think a "big nickle" package with a safety playing down at ILB spot would likely drop Rodney back into the box with Sanders and Merriweather deep.

 

[patchick]

Mayo.

I think a "big nickle" package with a safety playing down at ILB spot would likely drop Rodney back into the box with Sanders and Merriweather deep.

The trick is that Tank was the only depth there behind two players.

 

[14thDragon]

The trick is that Tank was the only depth there behind two players.

Which was a nice trick. But Alexander provides depth behind no players. Tank going down does create some new depth issues, but keeping Alexander certainly does not fix them.

Now you keep Spann, remember AD provides some depth at the ILB spot, maybe keep Seau's number on speed dial, pray Slater can play safety if he needs to.

 

[BPF]

I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

I think the Pats learned a valuable lesson last year with Justin Rogers, young LB's with potential will not clear waivers. Guyton and Redd will not clear waivers and will not make it to the PS if they are waived. I expect Ruud to either be IR'd and if not he should clear waivers since he hasn't shown anything due to being injured and he can be placed on the PS. At this point in time Guyton is running with the 2's at ILB and it certainly looks like he can contribute on special teams, btw he was a special teams demon in college. Redd has too much size/size and too much natural ability and he can also play special teams.

Initially my thinking heading into camp was that Hobson would make it and that Alexander would be let go but now I really feel as though Hobson's job is in jeopardy. Alexander should make it but I don't see Izzo doing so if Aiken is healthy. I think the fact that the Pats haven't IR'd Aiken is an indication that his injury is not as serious as initially feared and that he should be back. It's going to be a very tough cut with this group and a big question mark heading into camp has turned into a real positive with lots of solutions. It looks like the Pats have a good problem on their hands here with this group but if I had a gun to my head and had to pick now I would go with the following: Vrabel, Brushci, Mayo, Thomas, Woods, Guyton, Alexander, Crable and Redd to make it. Hobson hasn't shown much and he is on a 1 yr deal so he is stopgap at best, Izzo is not what he once was eventhough I think he can still play some I think he is year to year at this point so he is a very short term ST's option as well. You can't risk two young prospects like Guyton and Redd to waivers so I think they make the squad. Hey, they weren't drafted but you were lucky enough to get them on your roster.

 

[Metaphors]

Redd and Ruud, in contrast, I can't picture on anybody's 53 at this stage.

Agree on Ruud but it might get a little dicey getting Redd on the PS. Dude is 6'6" 260 lbs with some 3-4 OLB experience in college. There are just too many 3-4 teams now to think that none of them will devote a backend roster spot to developing a raw prospect with prototypical measurables, especially if he shows up positively in the Pats defensive scheme in preseason games.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Agree on Ruud but it might get a little dicey getting Redd on the PS. Dude is 6'6" 260 lbs with some 3-4 OLB experience in college. There are just too many 3-4 teams now to think that none of them will devote a backend roster spot to developing a raw prospect with prototypical measurables, especially if he shows up positively in the Pats defensive scheme in preseason games.

Which 3-4 team is linebacker hungry this year? Okay, perhaps the Dolfish, but the others seem to have settled things a bit on their rosters.

Redd played STs and a couple of second half series the other night, he had one stand out play swatting down a Flacco pass. He had one stand out play on STs. He missed a week in the training room. Someone else may want him if he goes to waivers, but he's still got a long way to go. Today, I'd take the risk - ask me again next week.

 

[JSn]

It looks like the Pats have a good problem on their hands here with this group but if I had a gun to my head and had to pick now I would go with the following: Vrabel, Brushci, Mayo, Thomas, Woods, Guyton, Alexander, Crable and Redd to make it.

Yeah, Redd is the real question to me. Maybe he plays out as a trading chip prior to week one?

 

[BPF]

Which was a nice trick. But Alexander provides depth behind no players. Tank going down does create some new depth issues, but keeping Alexander certainly does not fix them.

Now you keep Spann, remember AD provides some depth at the ILB spot, maybe keep Seau's number on speed dial, pray Slater can play safety if he needs to.

I've been to camp a few times and Alexander has looked solid. He seems much improved with more quickness and he played well in the 1st pre-season game as well. Alexander seems to have a good football IQ and he knows where to be. He is not out of position very many times. He supports the run well and is tough. Yes he has had his struggles in coverage in the past, but he does have some upside in this area and shown it this year. He is a very good special teams player as well. I'm not down on him like others.

 

[Pats726]

Chad Brown, Monty Beisel. Experieced free agents that did not do squat. Experience means nothing if it does not have some talent to go with it. Alexander and Izzo are nice special teamers that will never be linebackers.
Hobson is a question mark right now.
Crable, Guyton, and Redd are showing some talent. I want to keep that talent and develop it.

I think you miss the point here..they need more than talent/experience..they need to be able to fit into a particular scheme in the D.. That takes time..and patience..some do not fit in..Beisel did not at all..didn't get it..Chad Brown would have been fine if he had stayed outside..but they wanted him to learn ILB..and even for a vet with much talent and experience he was doing something for the first time..and he was not good at it. SO one can have experience and talent and still not be able to fit in to a particular LB spot. Izzo I agree with..he's a ST only player. I am not sure about Alexander as I feel that he might be a backup ILB...but he really has to show something this camp or he's more a ST only player. I think it could go either way. If he's more an ST player..then he may be vulnerable to being cut. That is simple as he'll be in competition with ST players who have yet to develop in a position. This is where I think Guyton could make the team.. Or if a player plays a lot stronger than Izzo..he could be gone. Hobson will be a backup..it takes time..and I KNOW it's been slow for him..but unless they feel he's that far away..he's a keeper. In other words he has to do pretty bad to be cut..and really show no hope of development in the system here. I really think how he does will impact how/what happens with Seau...There is a lot of time to things..but..they will not sit and wait.
But I wonder about Redd and Guyton and if they will keep one or risk the waiver wire...I would like to see both stay with the team..but I really do not see Redd making the 53..as much as I would love that. Guyton might especially with his ST play..but I wonder about the next 3 games..if Redd plays better..that is good and yet he's more vulnerable to get picked up. Same with Guyton..although I think he is more likely to be grabbed. Some tough decisions though...I think Alexander and Izzo are the ones who might be in competition with Guyton and Redd...even though Redd is an OLB...and Ruud?? He will remain to be seen...where if he fits in.

 

[Jimke]

You will never pass either Redd or Guyton through waivers to get on the practice squad. Guyton is running with the second team ILB and played some the other night with Bruschi. Everyone was wowed by the big hit Mayo made on Rice. It was Guyton who plugged the hole where the play was suppossed to go and forced Rice to change direction right into the waiting arms of Mayo (the tape doesn't lie). Hobson is not "getting it" in his adjustment to ILB. Guyton can also play OLB too. I say Guyton makes it over Hobson. Izzo might stay because of the injury to Aiken. Aiken was being tried at the protector poistion on the punt team which is usually Izzo. Can Alexander play that position? Izzo, Redd and Alexander are fighting it out for the last two spots. Seau is a mid season replacement for somone that gets hurt. He is not ready to play yet.

I agree with you 100%. The Pats have a chance to improve their team

both now and for the future with these young linebackers. Tedy Bruschi

may not be a starter after this year. Mike Vrabel's contract is up after

2009 and he will be 35 years old. Pierre Woods is in the third year of his

contract and could leave after 2009. Larry Izzo and Eric Alexander are

good special team's players but not potential starters.

Would you rather have a veteran player (Hobson) who is struggling to

learn BB's system or a young player like Guyton who looks promising?

Besides, Hobson is only signed to a one year contract.

One option for the Patriots would be to keep ten linebackers this

year and retain a special teams ace like Izzo and a young linebacker

like Guyton. As a last resort, Seau is only a telephone call away.

 

[Metaphors]

Which 3-4 team is linebacker hungry this year? Okay, perhaps the Dolfish, but the others seem to have settled things a bit on their rosters.

Redd played STs and a couple of second half series the other night, he had one stand out play swatting down a Flacco pass. He had one stand out play on STs. He missed a week in the training room. Someone else may want him if he goes to waivers, but he's still got a long way to go. Today, I'd take the risk - ask me again next week.

He is definitely raw and not ready to take regular snaps, but there just aren't many OLB candidates around with his size, speed and potential. He is far from a sure thing but if you even have a 20% chance of developing a future stud (remember AD was a developmental, special teams guy for a while), isn't that worth the 53rd roster spot...and he can likely muck in right away on special teams if needed?

Ellis in Dallas and McGinest in Cleveland are nearing the end. Not sure what SD has behind Merriman and Phillips, but based on last year it can't be too much. The Jets seem set but I can't believe the backend of their roster is overly talented. TBC isn't lighting it up in SF (are they still 3-4?).

If the Pats really want to develop Redd and would be disappointed to lose him, I think it is risky to put him on waivers.

 

[patchick]

Which was a nice trick.

The Lynch visit sure looks like they're dusting that trick off, eh?

 

[Deus Irae]

He is definitely raw and not ready to take regular snaps, but there just aren't many OLB candidates around with his size, speed and potential. He is far from a sure thing but if you even have a 20% chance of developing a future stud (remember AD was a developmental, special teams guy for a while), isn't that worth the 53rd roster spot...and he can likely muck in right away on special teams if needed?

Ellis in Dallas and McGinest in Cleveland are nearing the end. Not sure what SD has behind Merriman and Phillips, but based on last year it can't be too much. The Jets seem set but I can't believe the backend of their roster is overly talented. TBC isn't lighting it up in SF (are they still 3-4?).

If the Pats really want to develop Redd and would be disappointed to lose him, I think it is risky to put him on waivers.

Ahh.... the inherent problem of the number '53'.