Camp Battles: Final

[Metaphors]

You have requested us to put one of your binkies on the squad at LB. I simply don't agree. I don't think any of them will make the squad.

Not at all. You just had Alexander take a roster spot in the inactive 8 (vs Ruud, Redd and Guyton) and then in a subsequent post claim that he would be an active member of special teams. Just wondering where you think he fits on the roster.

 

[RayClay]

While your statements are accurate in a general sense, they are a bit misleading. Pats 3-4 linemen do not directly translate into traditional 4-3 lineman. They absolutely do translate into the Pats 4-3 look (while still operating out of a 3-4 base).

Don't mean to poo-poo on your points since I'm inclined to agree with you (and said pretty much the same thing when I cut Santonio in the DL thread). I just heard back from folks that having a 7th DL is a good investment as injury protection. On my roster, there are 4 inactive spots for OL/DL backups. This has to do with the quality of the players as well as the difficulty finding big bodies on the street if disaster strikes.

That being said, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the Pats enter the season with 6 DL. AD's ability to play a true end (not just rush LB at end) is useful as an insurance policy. Truth be told, I really like the rook LBs and would be plenty happy to use roster spots to keep as many as possible.

I was trying to get a rise and no one bit. It really is true that Wilfork doesn't have a real backup, but a couple good end tackle hybrids in LeKevin and Wright.

I personally am a big fan of Santonio and the great effort he puts forth, but as a mainly three four team that gives us 4 backups that are basically similar players. I think an extra cornerback or linebacker definitely would be of more use. A real lardbutt backup for Wilfork would be another story.

 

[mgteich]

The situation will change from game to game. The 4th WR might be on the inactive list. In the end, I expect Crable to be on the list in the beginning of the season. We don't need four active corners, especially given that we often carried three corners last year, so I think Webster will often be inactive.

Not at all. You just had Alexander take a roster spot in the inactive 8 (vs Ruud, Redd and Guyton) and then in a subsequent post claim that he would be an active member of special teams. Just wondering where you think he fits on the roster.

 

[mgteich]

Yup, if there are no injuries it is really silly to carry seven DL's. On the other hand, we have a 5 DL rotation during most games. All get considerable playing time. It does not seem excessive to have two inactive backups in LeKevin and Santonio. And yes, I would prefer that Fafita is good enough so that he could make the team and start if Wilfork is injured. In the end, the team would rather have Wright in there. I would also remind you that we did fine a couple of years ago with Green as the sub NT.

I was trying to get a rise and no one bit. It really is true that Wilfork doesn't have a real backup, but a couple good end tackle hybrids in LeKevin and Wright.

I personally am a big fan of Santonio and the great effort he puts forth, but as a mainly three four team that gives us 4 backups that are basically similar players. I think an extra cornerback or linebacker definitely would be of more use. A real lardbutt backup for Wilfork would be another story.

 

[cstjohn17]

This is really good stuff, it is not an easy task. Thank you for creating a workable framework.

Looking at the raw numbers, Safety looks a little thin, 4 seems low to me. Maybe they add a player like Law to be a CB/S or bring in a player like Wesley from KC.

The bubble players are in a life and death struggle to make an impact on special teams. Unless Slater is sensational I don't see how he makes the team.

CB - Is Webster really worth keeping? I think he gets the axe.

LB - In the end I think BB will generally go with veterans, at LB this could mean some people's binkies (Redd, Guyton, Ruud) get cut in favor of vets like Izzo and Alexander. It won't be popular but potential doesn't feed the bulldog. There is a good chance that at least 2/3 will slide to the PS.

The team is stacked, very deep and among the league's elite. IMO the team is below the 08 team in overall talent but more than capable of winning it all.

 

[Metaphors]

Looking at the raw numbers, Safety looks a little thin, 4 seems low to me. Maybe they add a player like Law to be a CB/S or bring in a player like Wesley from KC.

For this exercise, I didn't take into account possible additions (like Law or Seau). 8 active DBs felt about right and the 4 vet safeties seemed like a no-brainer.

The bubble players are in a life and death struggle to make an impact on special teams. Unless Slater is sensational I don't see how he makes the team.

I'm trending the opposite way. Slater doesn't have any real competition for kick returner and with Andrews gone he can also fill a valuable role as a gunner for the coverage teams. My take is that unless Slater is a dud, don't see how he doesn't make the team. Differing opinions is what makes this so interesting.

CB - Is Webster really worth keeping? I think he gets the axe.

To be honest, I don't have that good a reading on Webster (besides missing a lot of time with injuries). My thinking was to have a veteran corner with experience outside. I see Wheatley as focusing initially on inside coverage. With Hobbs coming off injuries and Bryant being new, having a vet in the CB rotation seemed smart. Granted we have to see is Webster can do the job. If it looks like Belichick wants someone with CB/S flexibility, then maybe LSanders is a better choice

LB - In the end I think BB will generally go with veterans, at LB this could mean some people's binkies (Redd, Guyton, Ruud) get cut in favor of vets like Izzo and Alexander. It won't be popular but potential doesn't feed the bulldog. There is a good chance that at least 2/3 will slide to the PS.

I don't think Belichick will keep veterans if they are not positioned to be in the top 45. I kinda agree with your underlying point that it is unlikely Redd/Guyton/Ruud make the active 45. Izzo being the most likely vet in danger but your point about BB favorites is well taken.

The team is stacked, very deep and among the league's elite. IMO the team is below the 08 team in overall talent but more than capable of winning it all.

The thing I like about this team is the number of players that could take a giant leap forward this year. Hobbs (he is only 25), Meriweather and JSanders (not even 25 yet). Add in new guys that could excel in a new setting (Bryant and Hobson) and this team has amazing potential. The offense will be top-notch again and if the guys mentioned above step up, the defense should be improved from an already solid unit.

 

[AzPatsFan]

In the discussion of ST players everyone ignores the best ST player on the Patriots, Pierre Woods.

His IS and HAS BEEN the best ST cover man for the past two years. Woods has led the Team in ST tackles for two years, and he isn't even a gunner.

Larry Izzo has been fading and living off his old reputation. To anyone watching closely, Larry was losing it badly as last year went on. Bill invited him back, to see what he has left. But Bill is hardly sentimental to old vets when they lose it.
Ask Cherry, Antowain, or Willie McG.

 

[Metaphors]

In the discussion of ST players everyone ignores the best ST player on the Patriots, Pierre Woods.

His IS and HAS BEEN the best ST cover man for the past two years. Woods has led the Team in ST tackles for two years, and he isn't even a gunner.

I put him as a special teams lock. I don't think I heard anyone suggest Woods doesn't make the team because of his importance on ST. Maybe people aren't talking about Woods because there isn't any controversy over his position with the team.

Larry Izzo has been fading and living off his old reputation. To anyone watching closely, Larry was losing it badly as last year went on. Bill invited him back, to see what he has left. But Bill is hardly sentimental to old vets when they lose it.
Ask Cherry, Antowain, or Willie McG.

Totally agree and I actually hope Woods can take over his leadership role and make Izzo expendable. I really like the potential of Guyton and Ruud (possibly Redd too but haven't seen much of him) on ST. If I had to bet now, I would say that Izzo makes the cut just for continuity...but I'm definitely in your camp.

 

[fgssand]

Shows how incredibly deep we are- I just cannot see guys like Aiken, Alexandar not making this team - yet I cannot find anyone to scratch in their place.
Then Seau has to be fit in, assuming he comes back, not to mention maybe even Law --- WOW!!!

 

[JSn]

Then Seau has to be fit in, assuming he comes back, not to mention maybe even Law --- WOW!!!

If those guys come back and have nice swan songs... this will be a fun year. My guess, though, is 80% Seau is back and 20% Law is back in NE.