What I don't get about the Wheatley pick

[charlie2]

Then use our end of the 6th round pick on Barrett, instead of lil' Bo peep Ruud, a non-priority UDFA talent. Or at least, if a LB was wanted at that spot, take Erin Henderson and use the 7th-round pick on...nevermind.

As for the Wilhite pick, the FO should've drafted OG Roy Schuening instead. He would've filled a position of need, and was one of the BPA regardless of positiion.

And finally, instead of throwing away their only 7th-round pick to trade up to draft another UDFA talent in Matt Slater, the FO should've drafted NT Ahtyba Rubin, who could've been a legitimate backup to Vince Wilfork, and kept the 7th-rounder.

1/10 - Mayo
2/62 - Reggie Smith or, begrudgingly, Wheatley
3/78 - Cliff Avril or, very begrudgingly, Crable
3/94 - Tyvon Branch
4/129 - Roy Schuening
5/160 - Ahtyba Rubin
6/197 - Josh Barrett, or C Steve Justice
7/238 - Erin Henderson, or Bentley College's first-ever NFL draft pick, OL Mackenzy Bernadeau

If someone had suggested this list before the draft started, would you not have been happy with it?
If someone had suggested the actual list before the draft, would you really have been happy with it?

Are you really his dense? Who cares where 'experts' or mock drafts forecasted certain players to go. The Patriots took who they wanted where they wanted- guys who fit their unique system. One can't really argue w/ their track record.

 

[Jimke]

Are you really his dense? Who cares where 'experts' or mock drafts forecasted certain players to go. The Patriots took who they wanted where they wanted- guys who fit their unique system. One can't really argue w/ their track record.

I agree with you with the exception of the 2007 draft. Most of

their second day picks were off the draft radar of the 'experts' and

only two of nine draftees made the roster plus one on IR.

In the very same draft, the Giants and Colts had good success.

The Patriots admittedly made some super trades but their draft

selections were below par. They drafted three offensive linemen who

had no chance whatever to make the team. This year the Pats

addressed their major needs in the draft and with UDFAs.

 

[Jimke]

Cousins,
I see it this way. BB and Pioli do not scout these players, the paid scouts do. They recommend certain players and put the values on them. Yes BB and Pioli have the final say BUT.....a bad scout can make a bad choice and make the F.O. look tainted.

It's like these "Presidential" candidates that say they can do this or that. We all know they can do crap. It's Congress and the Senate that actually do these things. We don't believe the "new jobs" or "change" (change could be going to meet major world dignitaries in your Jockey shorts) etc. promises garbage. Well the F.O. here is the "President" and it's the array of scouts that are the Congress and actually push for their own agenda that will get approved if they can b.s. to get their own way. The scouts and congress all influence the decision in both cases.

BB doesn't have but a few occasions before a draft like visits etc, where he will work out or chat with a kid. We also know the teams also do that for smoke screens too. So BB relies on scouts. Last year in 07 the scouts did a terrible job. We'll see about this year.

It also has to do with marketing. BB or Pioli must market the picks or pick when they move up or down the draft to get a "buyer". They buy and sell. If a scout says that Matt Slater is a "By-God" fifth round draft choice, then the F.O. drafts that way, BUT....if they get duped into thinking "so in so" is a true fifth rounder because "X" team is "hot" on him if you don't take him, and then chuckle as the Pats draft that kid. The other team wins by default because they suckered us into drafting him. It's poker.

There is enough information out there today for the fans to get a reasonable temperature on a player. We do not have the whole story though, it's true. But some of the moves are still puzzling. Look at the success rate in the NFL for draft choices. What are they, less than 20% per year, per draft class? It's all scouts. Someone told BB that Slater is worth a trade-up to a higher fifth round position. BB approved the move because he trusts (and pays) that scout who put Slater on the draft board to begin with.

What I am saying is that the fans (or talking heads) could generate probably within a few percentage points, within the success rate of the majority on the NFL teams. I really believe that. There are other factors such as CAP and present roster status and quality that are caveats to my theory.

So by saying a fan is out of touch today or does not really know what a team should do or what the value of a player is, may not be a fair statement.
DW Toys

In the case of Wilhite, Belichick, Pioli, and Peas attended his

pro day at Auburn. They liked him better than Patrick Lee who

they came to scout.

 

[Jimke]

Is why there? - did the Pats think someone else really like the guy in the next 6 picks, even next full round? Are there other teams out there that were ready to hop on him if the Pats let him slide? Could we have not waited and picked up someone that might have been a little higher on the value charts. My thoughts are that their next three might be a tad unusual as well because when I look at Wheatleys value pre-draft, I'm seeing most evaluators tab him as a 4th rounder at best, nevermind a second rounder. I just don't understand that pick at all.

Both Belichick and Capers have coached defensive backs and

hopefully know a little more than the so called draft evaluators.

 

[bradmahn]

I agree with you with the exception of the 2007 draft. Most of

their second day picks were off the draft radar of the 'experts' and

only two of nine draftees made the roster plus one on IR.

In the very same draft, the Giants and Colts had good success.

The Patriots admittedly made some super trades but their draft

selections were below par. They drafted three offensive linemen who

had no chance whatever to make the team. This year the Pats

addressed their major needs in the draft and with UDFAs.

It's not like the Patriots said to themselves "let's just take offensive lineman 'cause we feel like it." They determined that those players fit their system better than the ones that were available at other "positions of need." They felt those players had the raw ability that they look for in linemen, whereas the linebackers and corners weren't fits (or didn't fit as much).

The Colts and Giants play completely different styles of ball, so what they did last year does not mean the Patriots would have had the same success in the late rounds if they had only "drafted like the Colts" (who quickly signed several Patriots draftees to their practice squad and even to their active roster, for what that's worth).

People continue to fail to realize this and that is why you see someone saying "ah, they should have taken Reggie Smith" despite the fact that he projects as a cover two or zone corner and is deficient in man coverage. Why people still say they should have taken him despite the fact that he most clearly does not fit their mold for cornerbacks is beyond ridiculous. Are you telling me Bill Belichick should change his defensive schemes because you like Reggie Smith in the third round?

 

[captain stone]

Are you really his dense? Who cares where 'experts' or mock drafts forecasted certain players to go. The Patriots took who they wanted where they wanted- guys who fit their unique system. One can't really argue w/ their track record.

Their track record in last year's draft says otherwise, as does the 3rd-7th rounds in the 2004 draft.

What you may consider dense, I consider thinking for myself. Try it sometime.

 

[DaBruinz]

Their track record in last year's draft says otherwise, as does the 3rd-7th rounds in the 2004 draft.

What you may consider dense, I consider thinking for myself. Try it sometime.

So, Belichick and Pioli put up 1 stinker drafter every 3 years and you think that other teams don't do that?

Lets actually reveiw the 2004 Draft.
Wilfork and Watson. Nuff Said.
Marquis Hill - Stuck behind 4 starters and was very valuable in practice simulating opposing teams players.
Guss Scott - Catastrophic injuries plagued him
Dexter Reid - played special teams for 1 year and then was cut.
Cedric Cobbs - Spent time on the team and was cut the next season
PK Sam - Spent time on the team and was cut the next season. Many thought he should have stayed in school another year to mature. Clearly it hurt him
Christian Moron - had an outside shot at making the team. Didn't. Went on to play for Atlanta.

The Pats got 3 players who played for 3 seasons or more from that draft. They had 3 others that spent parts of a season on the team, but didn't develop the way they'd hoped.

Considering that the Pats 2003 Draft is considered extremely rare, I don't see how the 2004 draft was all that bad.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Is why there? - did the Pats think someone else really like the guy in the next 6 picks, even next full round? Are there other teams out there that were ready to hop on him if the Pats let him slide? Could we have not waited and picked up someone that might have been a little higher on the value charts. My thoughts are that their next three might be a tad unusual as well because when I look at Wheatleys value pre-draft, I'm seeing most evaluators tab him as a 4th rounder at best, nevermind a second rounder. I just don't understand that pick at all.

I don't remember the player or the whole story or what year, but it was under BB and it went something like this. (I think the team was the Jets but I am not sure.)

Pats next pick is about 5 away. They call the guy they have targeted. They ask him if he has been talking to anybody else he says yeah team X. Team X is three picks away. They say to him watch your TV screen you are about to see a trade go thru. Then they picked him.

Never know, history might have repeated itself.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't remember the player or the whole story or what year, but it was under BB and it went something like this. (I think the team was the Jets but I am not sure.)

Pats next pick is about 5 away. They call the guy they have targeted. They ask him if he has been talking to anybody else he says yeah team X. Team X is three picks away. They say to him watch your TV screen you are about to see a trade go thru. Then they picked him.

Never know, history might have repeated itself.

I am fairly certain you are referring to Matt Light. The Patriots 2nd round pick of 2001.

Belichick called him and told him that they were interested and asked if anyone else had called him. Light told him that he'd just gotten off the phone with the Jets. Belichick said hold on a second. Then came back and said, watch your screen. You'll see a trade go through and Welcome to the Patriots. Sure enough. That is what happened.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I am fairly certain you are referring to Matt Light. The Patriots 2nd round pick of 2001.

Belichick called him and told him that they were interested and asked if anyone else had called him. Light told him that he'd just gotten off the phone with the Jets. Belichick said hold on a second. Then came back and said, watch your screen. You'll see a trade go through and Welcome to the Patriots. Sure enough. That is what happened.

Yup that sounds like the story I am referring to. Could have been the same deal.