Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[rkarp1]

How could you know they do not, just say you don’t know.

Or win them games after a starter gets hurt, time will answer this question. The young depth behind the starters could be good, great even. The coaches knew they had to improve the position this offseason.

I have said I don't know, numerous times on this very thread
however, chances are an UDFA or a day 3 pick are not ready to play in the NFL from day 1.
the players the Pats drafted or signed as udfa's are no different
is there a player here and there that can step in? of course, but 90-95% are not

 

[Wozzy]

I have said I don't know, numerous times on this very thread

You just specifically said they do not.

however, chances are an UDFA or a day 3 pick are not ready to play in the NFL from day 1.
the players the Pats drafted or signed as udfa's are no different
is there a player here and there that can step in? of course, but 90-95% are not

You don’t know this, you’re making up fictional stats.

 

[rkarp1]

You just specifically said they do not.

You don’t know this, you’re making up fictional stats.

you can count the day 3 players that started day 1 on 2 hands over the past 25 years

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the complete draft history of New England Patriots starting from 1936 to present including year by year draft picks on Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[rkarp1]

Rkarp and Family fall in love with every player they watch play here, spend untold posts defending them when they have problems then spend the entire off season ripping the team for letting them go. Then the season starts again and they fall in love with a new set of players. Rinse and repeat

I appreciated the play Gibbens gave the team last season.
you can plug in any of the players I mentioned this year to replace him.
Milano. Thompson. Wagner. and others
the team needs a vet ILB to give the team some experienced depth.
maybe that is Mausau.
it is not yet Obiazor or Jacobs. I think Hunter is a big S...but I guess we wait and see if he is game day active, if he is, and see where he lines up

 

[Wozzy]

you can count the day 3 players that started day 1 on 2 hands over the past 25 years

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the complete draft history of New England Patriots starting from 1936 to present including year by year draft picks on Pro-Football-Reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

They don’t have to start day one, they have to be backups. You and Family keep moving those goalposts.

I’ve said all along there was some projection involved with the backup ILB depth, always said there was element of the unknown…. as with all rookies and young prospects.

The coaches have a better grasp on the roster than this point last season. They showed the ability to acquire and develop rookies. The unknown shouldn’t scare anyone, but you have to stop pretending like you know the backups suck… because you don’t. It’s a total unknown.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

They don’t have to start day one, they have to be backups. You and Family keep moving those goalposts.

I’ve said all along there was some projection involved with the backup ILB depth, always said there was element of the unknown…. as with all rookies and young prospects.

The coaches have a better grasp on the roster than this point last season. They showed the ability to acquire and develop rookies. The unknown shouldn’t scare anyone, but you have to stop pretending like you know the backups suck… because you don’t. It’s a total unknown.

Man, this Gibbens debate has way more legs than it should.
IMO Gibbens sucked last year, any vet LB could have played as well.
Regarding the rooks.
Just because they haven't done yet in the NFL doesn't mean they can't. However, it doesn't mean they can either.
From a purely statistical/historical point of view, the chances of an UFDA or late rd rook playing well are pretty slim, but again, that doesn't mean they can't, and they wouldn't need to play at that high of a level to match Gibbens.

 

[Wozzy]

Man, this Gibbens debate has way more legs than it should.
IMO Gibbens sucked last year, any vet LB could have played as well.
Regarding the rooks.
Just because they haven't done yet in the NFL doesn't mean they can't. However, it doesn't mean they can either.
From a purely statistical/historical point of view, the chances of an UFDA or late rd rook playing well are pretty slim, but again, that doesn't mean they can't, and they wouldn't need to play at that high of a level to match Gibbens.

Malcolm Butler played well as a rookie, he made a pretty memorable play in the Super Bowl. But yeah, undrafted rookies don’t make much impact.

 

[Ring 6]

I appreciated the play Gibbens gave the team last season.
you can plug in any of the players I mentioned this year to replace him.
Milano. Thompson. Wagner. and others
the team needs a vet ILB to give the team some experienced depth.
maybe that is Mausau.
it is not yet Obiazor or Jacobs. I think Hunter is a big S...but I guess we wait and see if he is game day active, if he is, and see where he lines up

But you are dismissing what happened last year in a team that won 14 games won the division, won 3 playoff games and had a stretch of 16-1.

The following “inexperienced” players contributed to that.
Henderson
Williams
Campbell
Wilson
Woodson
Durden
Farmer
Ponder
Woods
Pettus
Borregales


He also got rid of
Duggar
Peppers
Brissett
Jordan
Thornton
Ekuale
Godchaux
Jon Jones
White
Bentley
Last year, and that worked out fine.

This year it was
Jennings
Gibbens
Tavai
Hawkins
Diggs
Lowe
Tonga
Boutte


Perhaps Vrabel has decided that he will be more successful coaching up inexperienced guys that having old veterans with recognizable names.

Are we critizibg him now for doing the same thing that turned a 4-13 team into a 14-3 SB team?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Malcolm Butler played well as a rookie, he made a pretty memorable play in the Super Bowl. But yeah, undrafted rookies don’t make much impact.

Not what I said at all and you know it.
For every Malcolm Butler there are 100 UDFAs that never make such an impact.
I simply said history proves the far more likely outcome is an UDFA doesn't succeed, but that certainly doesn't mean they can't.
If I remember correctly you said getting rid of Boutte would allow our promising UDFA WRs a chance to make the team.
How many of those made the team?

 

[Wozzy]

Not what I said at all and you know it.
For every Malcolm Butler there are 100 UDFAs that never make such an impact.
I simply said history proves the far more likely outcome is an UDFA doesn't succeed, but that certainly doesn't mean they can't.
If I remember correctly you said getting rid of Boutte would allow our promising UDFA WRs a chance to make the team.
How many of those made the team?

I wasn’t really disagreeing with you. But Jonathan Jones, David Andrews, Jakobi Meyers, J.C. Jackson, Gunner Olszewski, Elijah Ponder and Efton Chism

Including Butler that’s 8 UDFA rookies right off the top of my head who contributed in year one.

The suggestion UDFA’s don’t contribute is outright false.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

The suggestion UDFA’s don’t contribute is outright false.

Yes, I agree with this, always have.
I never suggested they can't contribute.
From a pure numbers/historical pov, the chances are far more probable that they don't, however that doesn't mean they can't.
Replacing Gibbens should not be hard.

 

[Zuma]

- Owner “I’ll give you the highest paid contract in NFL history for a CB”

- Player “Naaa…I want more”

- Fans “Pay the player more!”

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, I agree with this, always have.
I never suggested they can't contribute.
From a pure numbers/historical pov, the chances are far more probable that they don't, however that doesn't mean they can't.
Replacing Gibbens should not be hard.

This is true, but I’d also like qualify that teams, especially good teams like the dynasty Patriots, never enter an offseason and say “we’ll find our starting CB or Center in the undrafted ranks.”

Butler, Jones, Jackson… these guys joined one of the deepest defensive backfields in the NFL. Usually UDFA guys are fallback prospects. If N’Keal busts, we’ll sign Jakobi Meyers as an UDFA to cover our butt.

We’re talking backups, depth behind the starters. These guys don’t have to play defense barring injury. And if they do, there’s a good chance they play well… or better than last years backups.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

- Owner “I’ll give you the highest paid contract in NFL history for a CB”

- Player “Naaa…I want more”

- Fans “Pay the player more!”

So where do you stand?
You think Kraft really made him an offer with the most guaranteed money for a CB in the history of the NFL?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

This is true, but I’d also like qualify that teams, especially good teams like the dynasty Patriots, never enter an offseason and say “we’ll find our starting CB or Center in the undrafted ranks.”

Butler, Jones, Jackson… these guys joined one of the deepest defensive backfields in the NFL. Usually UDFA guys are fallback prospects. If N’Keal busts, we’ll sign Jakobi Meyers as an UDFA to cover our butt.

We’re talking backups, depth behind the starters. These guys don’t have to play defense barring injury. And if they do, there’s a good chance they play well… or better than last years backups.

Yes, I agree and specifically talking about Gibbens, I have faith one, or a combination of the rooks can easily replace him.
Gibbens was a backup, and not a good one.

 

[Zuma]

You think Kraft really made him an offer with the most guaranteed money for a CB in the history of the NFL?

Yep

 

[Wozzy]

Yes, I agree and specifically talking about Gibbens, I have faith one, or a combination of the rooks can easily replace him.
Gibbens was a backup, and not a good one.

I like Obiazor as a prospect more than Gibbens, like Jacobs more. I even like the guys they brought in after Jacobs was slid to the IR.

Could they all suck, possibly, but the probability a team good at evaluating and development screwed it up worse in year two is pretty low.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Yep

I can't argue with you, I would just be guessing.

 

[Zuma]

I can't argue with you, I would just be guessing.

I think that’s what we are ALL doing

 

[Uptown]