DRAFT Welcome to New England - Illinois Edge Gabe Jacas! (2nd round, #55)

[mgteich]

Why would anyone care about the 5th OLB?

Jones, Landry, Ponder, Jacas

Some care about #5.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Some care whether we keep Swinson or Holmes or Hutchins. I am happy that the team kept Ponder on the roster and developed him last year.

I am happy that the team kept Swinson on the PS and developed him last year. I am happy for both Ponder and Swinson.

Can you see the point? Ponder was on the roster and Swinson was on the PS. It made no difference who was the 5th OLB.

 

[captain stone]

Why would anyone care about the 5th OLB?

Because, depending on the conditions of Landry & Jacass, OLB5 could all of a sudden become OLB3...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Because, depending on the conditions of Landry & Jacass, OLB5 could all of a sudden become OLB3...

If they suddenly become OLB3, then they are not OLB5 anymore, and then I will care about them.
But I still don't care about the new OLB5s.

 

[patfanken]

Reportedly, one of the better traits of the Vrabel staff in Tennessee was their ability to develop high RAS raw prospects into useful players at a higher-than-average rate. Ponder would be the best example from his Patriot time. Bedard mentions 5 or so from this year's 90 man roster and if you hit on one out of 4 after a couple of years of development, then you are way ahead of the game.

It's an entirely different approach than the BB years, where things like instincts, effort, and smarts were valued over raw athleticism and potential. Vrabel and his team rank #5 in RAS scores if you count the first 4 rounds (for some reason the picks they took in the later rounds dropped them a LOT.) But if you look a Campbell, Henderson, Williams, Wilson, and add Lomu, Jacas, Riordon, you have 7 players with RAS scores above 90.

Now having a great RAS score is certainly not a guarantee to success. This is where having a staff that is good at developing players is key, because if the goal is to be faster and more athletic, then THOSE are the guys you need to draft, but it does you no good if you can't beat the average at DEVELOPING them.

Bedard's weekly podcast does a good job at going over this comparison AND gives you a summary of the guys Bedard thinks ARE those kind of prospects coming out of the OTA's including some you've likely never heard of.

 

[Vindicate]

It's an entirely different approach than the BB years, where things like instincts, effort, and smarts were valued over raw athleticism and potential.

I'm not so sure that's a fair read. I think both loved that promising athleticism. Ernie Adams has said as much, that the question often was: are they big, strong, and fast enough, before anything else.

Patriots had quite the history of collecting players like that as well while BB was here.

 

[Brady85-23]

Not a great start with Jacas. Unknown injuries still unsigned I hope it works out. Pats traded up hard not to question. Maybe stay put and draft keyron crawford more of a speed rusher who i thought the pats were targeting. At 131 WR bryce lance was there high upside probably would have made Doubs an unnecessary sign save that money kinda felt like a wolf move. But maybe they really like doubs, kyle Louis LB was there the oregon LB Ephysians Prysock many others. At 202 guard Micah Morris was there who i was really high on. Im hoping jacas turns out to be a stud and this looks like a stupid post in the future but Im definitely curious to see how it plays out.

 

[KCSVEN]

Not a great start with Jacas. Unknown injuries still unsigned I hope it works out. Pats traded up hard not to question. Maybe stay put and draft keyron crawford more of a speed rusher who i thought the pats were targeting. At 131 WR bryce lance was there high upside probably would have made Doubs an unnecessary sign save that money kinda felt like a wolf move. But maybe they really like doubs, kyle Louis LB was there the oregon LB Ephysians Prysock many others. At 202 guard Micah Morris was there who i was really high on. Im hoping jacas turns out to be a stud and this looks like a stupid post in the future but Im definitely curious to see how it plays out.

This will get worked out at some point.
It's clear the Patriots want protection against undisclosed injuries and that Jacas, based on recent workouts posted, is saying they don't need it, he's fine.
He doesn't want to participate, injure something, and lose his money if an injury happens. Pats don't want to guarantee against an injury for something they were unaware of.
Jacas has way more to lose than the Pats by signing a contract without injury protection, be interesting how they end up compromising but there is no benefit to either to not get it done.

To me it's a catch-22: If the guy played with a knee issue, a hamstring issue, a torn labrum shoulder and a foot stress fracture and is now healthy, then he should be much better than his tape which was already good. If some of those happened after the season and are a sign of a guy already breaking down, then not so good.

 

[Thelonious]

I'm not so sure that's a fair read. I think both loved that promising athleticism. Ernie Adams has said as much, that the question often was: are they big, strong, and fast enough, before anything else.

Patriots had quite the history of collecting players like that as well while BB was here.

I don't think any discussion of Bill's philosophy - his successes, his failures - is at all legitimate unless it makes clear distinctions among his approach and success at different positions, nor, even more importantly, without taking note of his early successes as against the abysmal failures which characterized his dismal last few years. Such an assertion as "It's an entirely different approach than the BB years, where things like instincts, effort, and smarts were valued over raw athleticism and potential" is simply childish in its oversimplification, and of no value.

 

[mikey m]

So is it possible they come to an agreement any day or are we definitely not hearing anything until camp?

 

[BennyBledsoe]

I thought every slot in the draft had an associated contract to go with it... you know, to avoid this kinda thing.

 

[Wozzy]

So is it possible they come to an agreement any day or are we definitely not hearing anything until camp?

I suspect he’ll be there the first day of camp, even if he’s not a full participant or wearing a red jersey and this entire brouhaha will be a big nothing burger.

The team knew about his injury before the draft, we all did… he didn’t work out for a reason.

There’s just nothing else to talk about and a small contingent of Patriots fans are negative types who see calamity everywhere they look.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I thought every slot in the draft had an associated contract to go with it... you know, to avoid this kinda thing.

Now it’s not about the contract amount, now the disputes are whether it’s a fully guaranteed contract or not.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Now it’s not about the contract amount, now the disputes are whether it’s a fully guaranteed contract or not.

Always something!

 

[DaBruinz]

Now it’s not about the contract amount, now the disputes are whether it’s a fully guaranteed contract or not.

and how much of the salary will be guaranteed for injury since Jacas had a few extra injury issues that weren't reported on prior to the draft. They are issues that the Patriots KNEW about and likely had a hand in telling him to get it taken care of (the knee debridement).

Hopefully, this get's taken care before rookies have to report.

 

[mgteich]

I am happy that the team kept Swinson on the PS and developed him last year. I am happy for both Ponder and Swinson.

Can you see the point? Ponder was on the roster and Swinson was on the PS. It made no difference who was the 5th OLB.

Fair enough.

I just think about it differently.

Last year, I was happy enough when an UDFA beat out our 5th rounder for the roster. The key is that we had the competition availble when Swinson wasn't showing enough to make the roster. Perhaps, Holmes wll push Swinson this year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Fair enough.

I just think about it differently.

Last year, I was happy enough when an UDFA beat out our 5th rounder for the roster. The key is that we had the competition availble when Swinson wasn't showing enough to make the roster. Perhaps, Holmes wll push Swinson this year.

You might have been happy but it made no difference in the season. Maybe Swinson beats Ponder this year.