Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[Wozzy]

I also expect Britt to make the team. He is a solid STer, and yes, a couple of years ago he did have one year with significant defensive snaps.

Britt’s guaranteed money is comparable to a highly paid UDFA. That’s nowhere near a lock, but he does have experience. If the young guys look good I don’t see it.

So: Spillane, Ellis, Muma, Britt
about the same quality as last year.

Ignoring Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer entirely… that’s just an odd take.

 

[rkarp1]

The rebuild is never complete and no team in the NFL is "deep". The Pats went on a 9 year drought from 2005-2013 because they had holes in their rosters over the years.

This current Pats team has a major weakness along the OL which could absolutely derail their season. Run defense at both edges is the other. Ellis next to Spillane is the last. He will be dependent on Spillane staying healthy. I'd prefer the Pats bring in a veteran for at least early downs.

Talking about fringe practice squad players is the wrong conversation to be having when we should be discussing their actual starters.

come again?
05-13 was about as impressive a run as any team could have
2 SB appearances
an undefeated season
double digit wins each of those seasons
1st place in the division each season except for one

 

[rkarp1]

Britt’s guaranteed money is comparable to a highly paid UDFA. That’s nowhere near a lock, but he does have experience. If the young guys look good I don’t see it.

Ignoring Obiazor, Jacobs and Gainer entirely… that’s just an odd take.

Gainer and Jacobs are about as long a shot as can be to make the 53 man (PS candidates?)
if either are on the 53 man, something went horribly wrong
OB has a chance
I assume if a vet is brought in, the 4th and final spot will come down to Muma or OB, and who has more upside

 

[TheRainMaker]

come again?
05-13 was about as impressive a run as any team could have
2 SB appearances
an undefeated season
double digit wins each of those seasons
1st place in the division each season except for one

Winning ZERO Super Bowls in 9 years with that HC,QB and core players is not impressive at all and actually unacceptable. Bad drafts/personnel moves and not addresses weaknesses is the reason why they couldn't win one measly Super Bowl during that time. There's a reason they continually came up short during that stretch and it was because they had holes in the roster that got exploited come playoff time.

Had they not drafted Gronk, Jones, HT, switch McCourty to FS and sign Revis, they don't win another Super Bowl after 2004. Brady would've been gone by 2016.

 

[Wozzy]

Gainer and Jacobs are about as long a shot as can be to make the 53 man (PS candidates?)
if either are on the 53 man, something went horribly wrong

Was Wes Welker a longshot… how about Jon Jones? Just stupid…

OB has a chance
I assume if a vet is brought in, the 4th and final spot will come down to Muma or OB, and who has more upside

The competition is open, whoever plays best makes it. Britt is a jag.

 

[Family]

Was Wes Welker a longshot… how about Jon Jones? Just stupid…

Welker wasn't here, but yes Jon Jones was a longshot to make the Patriots in 2016.

I get what you mean, but everyone has players that are just hope.

Longshot doesn't mean no shot.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Talking about fringe practice squad players is the wrong conversation to be having when we should be discussing their actual starters.

Agreed. Some posters like to count players who make no difference. I guess they just like to count.

 

[mayoclinic]

Nobody wants to hear it, but I'll keep saying it anyway: The rebuild is not "complete." Our appearance in the SB last season has led many to overrate where the team actually is in its rebuild. This is why I opposed the Brown trade: we are not yet in "one player away mode." We are still in draft and develop mode, and should be holding on to every blessed draft pick we can. The draft is the way to build an affordable "middle class" and to build depth. In my view, it will take another year to consolidate the roster, and surrendering those draft picks for an expensive, perhaps two-year rental on a fading WR was not the way to go. Injuries - inevitable at some level - will damage a team with a roster this thin. I hope that will not happen, but we have left ourselves very vulnerable to it this year, and the sacrifice of draft picks makes recovery more difficult in the future.

Nothing is ever complete in today's NFL. There is constant turnover, cap restrictions, injuries, and other issues. You just have to keep churning, building the roster, draft well, manage your cap wisely, build a team culture, coach players up, and hope you get lucky. That's all.

I opposed the AJ Brown trade, but it's silly to suppose trading a likely late 2028 1st is mortgaging the future.

The rebuild is definitely not complete, and never truly will be - it's just further along in 18 short months than any of us expected.

 

[mgteich]

my concern is if Spillane or Ellis go down for a spell, neither Britt nor Muma has shown the level of play needed to hold down the fort for a bit.

Sure, we should be concerned just as were last year. Vrabel chose Muma and Britt (and Obiazor and Jacobs) to compete for reps. I expect that he is also concerned. He knows what he is willing to pay for backup as a potential upgrade.

 

[rkarp1]

Was Wes Welker a longshot… how about Jon Jones? Just stupid…

The competition is open, whoever plays best makes it. Britt is a jag.

Welker was a long shot
he went 3 years with out a single target
year 4 with Miami, he had 100 targets
Jon Jones was also a long shot
year 1 with the Pats he played 6% of the defensive snaps

the Pats need an ILB that can play some snaps week 1, and play a lot of snaps if Spillane or Elliss injure
that player may not be on the roster

again, if either of the udfa's make the team, something went wrong.

 

[rkarp1]

Sure, we should be concerned just as were last year. Vrabel chose Muma and Britt (and Obiazor and Jacobs) to compete for reps. I expect that he is also concerned. He knows what he is willing to pay for backup as a potential upgrade.

last year the team signed Gibbons, who started 18 games the prior 2 seasons
he had 2 seasons of playing over 60% of the defensive snaps
he was fine for a back up ILB. a guy that could wear the green dot. a guy that could spell other players if they injured.
Vrabel didn't choose Muma and Britt over Gibbons. Vrabel decided Gibbons was not affordable, or worth the money
comparing Gibbons to OB, Jacobs or Gainer is silly

 

[rkarp1]

Winning ZERO Super Bowls in 9 years with that HC,QB and core players is not impressive at all and actually unacceptable. Bad drafts/personnel moves and not addresses weaknesses is the reason why they couldn't win one measly Super Bowl during that time. There's a reason they continually came up short during that stretch and it was because they had holes in the roster that got exploited come playoff time.

Had they not drafted Gronk, Jones, HT, switch McCourty to FS and sign Revis, they don't win another Super Bowl after 2004. Brady would've been gone by 2016.

most wins in the entire league over that span?
2 SB appearances?
an undefeated season?
you consider that a failure?
do you even follow football?

 

[TheRainMaker]

do you even follow football?

That's funny because posters seem to regularly ask you this question. And your response clearly tells me you've never played competitive sports in your life.

I get that you're trying to take it out on someone when you're constantly bullied on this board, but I'm the wrong guy for you to come after.

 

[Ring 6]

Winning ZERO Super Bowls in 9 years with that HC,QB and core players is not impressive at all and actually unacceptable. Bad drafts/personnel moves and not addresses weaknesses is the reason why they couldn't win one measly Super Bowl during that time. There's a reason they continually came up short during that stretch and it was because they had holes in the roster that got exploited come playoff time.

Had they not drafted Gronk, Jones, HT, switch McCourty to FS and sign Revis, they don't win another Super Bowl after 2004. Brady would've been gone by 2016.

That’s a ridiculous post. You are spoiled by success. There is less than a 30% chance of winning a SB in a 9 period.
Every team has holes in their roster, including the ones who win SBs.

Acting as if it’s expected belittles the accomplishment and how difficult it is.

 

[TommyD4207]

Winning ZERO Super Bowls in 9 years with that HC,QB and core players is not impressive at all and actually unacceptable. Bad drafts/personnel moves and not addresses weaknesses is the reason why they couldn't win one measly Super Bowl during that time. There's a reason they continually came up short during that stretch and it was because they had holes in the roster that got exploited come playoff time.

Had they not drafted Gronk, Jones, HT, switch McCourty to FS and sign Revis, they don't win another Super Bowl after 2004. Brady would've been gone by 2016.

"Had they not drafted elite championship players, the team would have been bad."

They literally won the division every season from 2004-2013, and made 2 Super Bowls and had an undefeated season - and the year they didn't win the division, they went 11-5 with their backup QB playing all 16 games.

That's not impressive at all. Nope.

 

[Thelonious]

Nothing is ever complete in today's NFL. There is constant turnover, cap restrictions, injuries, and other issues. You just have to keep churning, building the roster, draft well, manage your cap wisely, build a team culture, coach players up, and hope you get lucky. That's all.

I opposed the AJ Brown trade, but it's silly to suppose trading a likely late 2028 1st is mortgaging the future.

The rebuild is definitely not complete, and never truly will be - it's just further along in 18 short months than any of us expected.

I agree with all of this, except that I never said giving up the first would "mortgage the future." I simply said that at this point, with the roster as thin as it is, and with some very weighty bills about to come due over the next year or two, I would be more averse to giving up draft picks than the team's trading a first away for an two-year rental suggests they are. If the roster were more comprehensively solid and we were in a "one piece away from Glory" situation, I might well feel differently, but we are not. Two factors play into what I regard as a mistaken trade: 1) There is not adequate appreciation for just how utterly Bill, Mayo and whoever else you might care to mention ruined this roster. The starting point for this rebuild (for these rebuilds?) was far more dismal than people seem to remember, 2) People were led by our participation this past Super Bowl giddily to conjure a far more rosy sense than is justified of where this team actually is in the rebuild.

By the way, the fact there is so little actually to talk about in these newsless weeks has resulted in our STILL talking about this matter, that it might seem those who opposed the trade think it was a "catastrophic mistake. I don't think that at all. I just would not have done it if I were in charge, for the reasons I have given (repeatedly to the point of tedium, I am sure). I am not in charge, of course, nor should I be, but we all here act as if we are, or should be! Such is sports chat.

At least we are not still indulging in asinine gossip about Mike and Diane sitting in a tree, K- I -S- S- I -N -Geee.

 

[rkarp1]

That's funny because posters seem to regularly ask you this question. And your response clearly tells me you've never played competitive sports in your life.

I get that you're trying to take it out on someone when you're constantly bullied on this board, but I'm the wrong guy for you to come after.

ahhhh...the old "I played sports, but I am a dummy" argument from you
keep telling your self the SB appearances, division dominance, the undefeated season, are a mirage.
I believe there is a tab for silly posts. Clonemary lives over there. you should trade silly posts with her/him

 

[Wozzy]

Welker wasn't here, but yes Jon Jones was a longshot to make the Patriots in 2016.

I get what you mean, but everyone has players that are just hope.

Longshot doesn't mean no shot.

There are jobs available, employees are needed… and this is far from the late dynasty Patriots. Nobody behind Spillane and Ellis are longshots.

Obi was a late round pick, Muma a reclamation project, a couple UDFA’s and Britt who has been a jag to date… nobody is a longshot here. They all have an equal chance to make the team and competition will deliver the verdict.

 

[Wozzy]

Welker was a long shot
he went 3 years with out a single target
year 4 with Miami, he had 100 targets
Jon Jones was also a long shot
year 1 with the Pats he played 6% of the defensive snaps

A lack of opportunity is not a lack of ability. Late round picks often have to wait for their time, sometimes the team needs a position filled, doesn’t have someone already there and it’s an open competition.

the Pats need an ILB that can play some snaps week 1, and play a lot of snaps if Spillane or Elliss injure

They needed it last year also, it wasn’t on the roster. Luckily Spillane and Elliss got and stayed healthy for the playoffs.

that player may not be on the roster

It’s always an unknown with young unproven players, but the coaches know what they’ve seen in practice.

again, if either of the udfa's make the team, something went wrong.

There’s absolutely no difference if an UDFA earns a roster spot or a draft pick earns a roster spot.

If a player like Welker or Jon Jones is good they earn their spot, first on special teams then inevitably as a position player. Ask Elijah Ponder….

 

[Family]

Obi was a late round pick, Muma a reclamation project, a couple UDFA’s and Britt who has been a jag to date… nobody is a longshot here. They all have an equal chance to make the team and competition will deliver the verdict.

Which is why the depth here is considered weak.