What is our plan for ILB?

[mgteich]

I agree 100%. I also remember that a lot of defensive veterans do not like to sign in FA until July and even August. Clowney is an example. The Pats might already have a deal with a veteran lined up but it might not happen for a few months.

BUT I thought the same thing last year because I did not believe Gibbens and Tavai were the backups, and they were. So who knows.

yup

As I recall, no one was signed last year from June1 through camp and the pre-season.

 

[JayNM]

How do you know what they are or aren't going to do regarding Maye and Gonzalez?? You have no idea. No one does. Gonzalez is under contract for 2 more years. That could turn into 4 more in total with the Franchise tag for 2 years. Gonzalez hasn't shown he can stay healthy for a full season. So I can understand the Pats being leary of committing long term. BUT, I would rather see a deal done sooner than later. Otherwise, it's going to cost the Pats north of $40M AAV and 120M guaranteed. However, there is nothing forcing Gonzalez to sign a contract extension.

Signing any one of Wagner, Okereke, or White prior to the Draft meant they'd have figured into the draft compensation formation. Now they won't. Wagner is going to be 36 here shortly before Training Camp. He might be waiting to sign. We've seen that with other players in the past.

People are wondering if White was hype from being on a stacked Tampa Team. Philly didn't hesitate to move on from him and neither did the Raiders. Those are red flags. I think White would be a fit, but that doesn't mean Vrabel and his brain trust do. Just like with Okereke. Zak Kuhr and Ryan Cowden have 1st hand knowledge of his play.. Which could be why he's not here. f

I agree with you in regards to Britt. I see him as STs only. Same with Muma, whom I am not impressed with. Both will have the chance to make the team, but they'll have stiff competition for the Special Teams spots from Amari Gainer, Otis Reese, Khalil Jacobs, Namdi Obiazor, and Hutchins.

Regarding the bolded, no one can predict 100% the future. Russia might nuke the US in august, but it's unlikely, then there is no football and our Lb corps is the best in the league

Jokes apart, following the trend of team-building from Vrabel last year, this team wont hire anyone. AJ brown is the exception, but it makes reasonable sense given his history, pur needs, and Maye rookie contract window.

My main point, however, it's 2 years in a row that we are leaving money in the table for no reason. We were so close to the title last year, if we had spent in one OL, one WR, one LB, it might make a difference

This year will be tougher. Harder schedule, and its not likely we will face 2 of the worst play off OL in the play offs and back up QB again. We could use a better team. It is stupid to not use the cap in the short term

 

[mgteich]

Regarding the bolded, no one can predict 100% the future. Russia might nuke the US in august, but it's unlikely, then there is no football and our Lb corps is the best in the league

Jokes apart, following the trend of team-building from Vrabel last year, this team wont hire anyone. AJ brown is the exception, but it makes reasonable sense given his history, pur needs, and Maye rookie contract window.

My main point, however, it's 2 years in a row that we are leaving money in the table for no reason. We were so close to the title last year, if we had spent in one OL, one WR, one LB, it might make a difference

This year will be tougher. Harder schedule, and its not likely we will face 2 of the worst play off OL in the play offs and back up QB again. We could use a better team. It is stupid to not use the cap in the short term

As far as leaving money on the table, we might consider that any excess will be pushed into 2027 when there will be additional cap money for Brown and for Gonzalez.

That being said, I do agree with signing a front 6 defensive player.

 

[rkarp1]

for anyone and everyone arguing the LB room is fine, even good, what the downside in trying to improve regardless?
in case the udfa's dont pan out? in case Muma again sucks? in case more injuries?
the $$$ are available. the vet players are available. whats the downside?

 

[Wozzy]

for anyone and everyone arguing the LB room is fine, even good, what the downside in trying to improve regardless?
in case the udfa's dont pan out? in case Muma again sucks? in case more injuries?
the $$$ are available. the vet players are available. whats the downside?

What position group doesn’t have young development players behind the starters… not just this team, but all 32 teams?

The ILB group suffers from reputation damage for very simple reasons. The two starters began their careers as UDFA’s, and until one of those make the popularity contest known as a pro bowl they’ll carry that scarlet letter. Ellis has it twice as bad because he joined this team at the end of the collaboration and played on that **** 2024 defense. So even though he plays very good people still equate it to bad.

Now the players behind them are being painted with the same large brush. A reclamation project in Muma, late round pick in Obiazor and some more UDFA’s.

It’s fan ignorance more than an actual lack of talent. In your case you have made a career of chasing Wozzy around and disagreeing with anything he says, especially if PFF tells you he is wrong.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Normally this is a totally fair take, one I use quite a bit actually - the only issue is, it's all concentrated on one position group, the lack of skill and talent. I hope you're right about these rookies and FAs they brought in. but I'd feel a lot better if a Bobby Wagner or someone was at least getting 20 snaps a game as a rotational guy.

Spillane is fine as a ILB. Elliss is inconsistent at best. IMO they just need more at the position. I hope they found it, like you say,

Yep. I would really like them to go after Wagner. He's still playing pretty well and is smart enough to fit in any system.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Regarding the bolded, no one can predict 100% the future. Russia might nuke the US in august, but it's unlikely, then there is no football and our Lb corps is the best in the league

Jokes apart, following the trend of team-building from Vrabel last year, this team wont hire anyone. AJ brown is the exception, but it makes reasonable sense given his history, pur needs, and Maye rookie contract window.

My main point, however, it's 2 years in a row that we are leaving money in the table for no reason. We were so close to the title last year, if we had spent in one OL, one WR, one LB, it might make a difference

This year will be tougher. Harder schedule, and its not likely we will face 2 of the worst play off OL in the play offs and back up QB again. We could use a better team. It is stupid to not use the cap in the short term

Disagree that they left money on the table for no reason, they used it for free agency and to sign players they want to fill out this roster. A big chunk of which is targeted at AJ Brown and hopefully a Gonzalez deal.

 

[p8ryts]

for anyone and everyone arguing the LB room is fine, even good, what the downside in trying to improve regardless?
in case the udfa's dont pan out? in case Muma again sucks? in case more injuries?
the $$$ are available. the vet players are available. whats the downside?

Bobby Wagner would probably be worth the money if he never played a down.

 

[JayNM]

Disagree that they left money on the table for no reason, they used it for free agency and to sign players they want to fill out this roster. A big chunk of which is targeted at AJ Brown and hopefully a Gonzalez deal.

I dont think Gonzalez is going to be renewed this season. I see him as a defensive tone-setter salary wise, being the highest paid player on that side of ball - pure speculation ofc, but he strikes my as a non-team break kind of player, which is fine given he is the best at his position

So we can and should use the Tag on him before making sure he "deserves" that kind of money. Availability is the name of the game here, consistent excellence being also expected

So, besides AJ Brown, what's the deal of holding so much money?

For years here, i hear about rolling cap space, but it also is being misunderstood. A 1 year cap rollout allows for one year of splurging, but doesnt guarantee a long term contract being easier to sign. The values return to normal, the rollout is only partial and they are non-cumulative. It was created for a team that was bad and poor to turn it around to attract players easier with more money.

2 years in a row with money to spend is not an optimal economical decision in roster contructing. This year, for me, would be very easy to correct our by far biggest weakness (LB corps)

 

[DaBruinz]

Regarding the bolded, no one can predict 100% the future. Russia might nuke the US in august, but it's unlikely, then there is no football and our Lb corps is the best in the league

Jokes apart, following the trend of team-building from Vrabel last year, this team wont hire anyone. AJ brown is the exception, but it makes reasonable sense given his history, pur needs, and Maye rookie contract window.

My main point, however, it's 2 years in a row that we are leaving money in the table for no reason. We were so close to the title last year, if we had spent in one OL, one WR, one LB, it might make a difference

This year will be tougher. Harder schedule, and its not likely we will face 2 of the worst play off OL in the play offs and back up QB again. We could use a better team. It is stupid to not use the cap in the short term

There's an old adage about Ifs/Buts. "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas". You seem to be ignoring that the Pats were in the 1st year of Vrabel's rebuild. He could have brought in Bitonio or Clowney and chose not to because the Pats were rebuilding. There's a good chance those guys didn't want to come here because the Pats were rebuliding or because Vrabel didn't think they'd bring the right attitude. I certainly don't know the exact reason. But it is telling when Vrabel and the staff have 1st hand knowledge of players and they aren't brought in at all.

@JayNM

2 years in a row with money to spend is not an optimal economical decision in roster constructing. This year, for me, would be very easy to correct our by far biggest weakness (LB corps)

You seem to be over-looking that they need about $10M to cover Incentives that are earned during the season and for injuries. The Pats ended the season with 13 guys on IR. That doesn't include the players who were injured during the season that came back from IR as well.

What's stupid is ignoring that the team is still rebuilding. Vrabel and Wolf said as much. What's also stupid is ignoring that some vets like to wait to sign until the nitty-gritty of TC is going on.

Without any carry-over, the Pats are projected to only have $37M in cap space for 2027. That's not a lot. It will be a lot LESS if they bring in AJB and his contract. That would also hamper their ability to get a deal for Gonzalez done and even begin to think about a deal for Maye. Do you even know who the Pats Free Agents are after this season that will need to be re-signed/replaced?

Onwenu ($19M), Hollins ($4.2M), Henry($9M), Baringer, Elliss ($6.75M), Durden (RFA), Woods (RFA), Boutte (24yr old) , Douglas (27), Byard ($7M), Pettus (RFA). This doesn't include a host of other players who are on 1 year deals that may or may not make this year's team. The Numbers in parenthesis are either their current AAV, their Free Agency Status for next year, or their age.

We already know that Boutte is looking for a new contract. How much, we don't know. But it's estimated to be similar to Doubs contract. While Byard, Hollins and Henry likely won't be re-signed, you still need money for their replacements. You'll need money to pay Onwenu or sign his replacement if they don't draft someone. The other guys might be "bottom of the roster" but they're still gonna be over $1M each to replace.

Maybe take a step back and try looking at the bigger picture. A teams financials aren't just about the current year. But also the coming years as well.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

the $$$ are available. the vet players are available. whats the downside?

I agree. Why not plug a less expenisve hole with a cost-effective FA signing? I assume that will happen in the next 60 days.

 

[rkarp1]

I agree. Why not plug a less expenisve hole with a cost-effective FA signing? I assume that will happen in the next 60 days.

Wagner. Milano. bring in someone and best players play. if the downside is that Elliss becomes a back up, then the team is better off for it.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree. Why not plug a less expenisve hole with a cost-effective FA signing? I assume that will happen in the next 60 days.

Wagner. Milano. bring in someone and best players play. if the downside is that Elliss becomes a back up, then the team is better off for it.

No on Milano. He can't stay healthy.
While I've mentioned it's a possibility to sign someone like Wagner, White or Okereke, I can see them NOT doing so if they bring in Brown because of the money they need to carry over for next year. As I mentioned above.

 

[Wozzy]

I agree. Why not plug a less expenisve hole with a cost-effective FA signing? I assume that will happen in the next 60 days.

There is no hole. And who is “less expensive?”

These vets are going to wait until camp begins and someone suffers an injury at the ILB position. They’re not signing for peanuts now.

 

[Wozzy]

Wagner. Milano. bring in someone and best players play. if the downside is that Elliss becomes a back up, then the team is better off for it.

Milano is toast.

Bobby Wagner will be 36, he is not coming here to play in pass coverage. The last couple seasons his snaps were managed to keep him primarily as a run defender. The notion he will replace Elliss is outright silly.

Bobby Okereke will be 30. He certainly has been a good defender on the backend, I wouldn’t be averse to his signing but Elliss is already under contract. They could just extend Elliss who is younger and slightly cheaper. People here seem to ignore Vrabel’s offseason mantra of younger, better, cheaper. They drafted Obiazor for a reason.

Devin White is 28 but has bounced around 4 teams over the last three years due to a combination of declining performance, locker room concerns and attitude issues. The GM who drafted him Jason Licht said, “It was too much about him,” and admitting he wouldn’t draft White again. So yeah… no thanks.

 

[Brady85-23]

If Spillane goes down who gets the green dot helmet?

 

[Wozzy]

If Spillane goes down who gets the green dot helmet?

Muma would be my guess. But Kevin Byard will be like another coach on the field.