Patricia was "de facto general manager" after Caserio's Departure

[upstater1]

Someone back me up here.

I really never heard of this.

That's better than a Herschel Walker type deal.

But I did run it through Google's AI and it said that Schefter never said that and that Mike Florio heard Schefter say something about how the Patriots weren't trading Garoppolo for anything and he exaggerated it (I'm guessing he said sarcastically "even for four 1st round picks"). Google AI literally calls it an exaggeration from Florio.

 

[Rob0729]

If we are to believe Schefter, the draft in question is 2017 when they took Myles Garrett, NOT the 2018 draft as reported.

Look at the timeline.

Mayfield and Darnold were actually very highly regarded. But that's irrelevant since Schefter isn't referring to the 2018 draft anyway. But regardless, the same sources that told that to Schefter also told him the Browns were taking Trubisky.

What is the difference if it was 2017 or 2018. So instead of Mayfield or Allen, the Pats could have had Mahomes.

It isn't the point of my argument. It was clear Belichick was not going to trade Garoppolo for anything in the offseason of 2017. I never got his love of the guy.

 

[upstater1]

Whatever. I don't remember which draft class is which. The Pats could have gotten the Browns' first round pick in 2017 and drafted Mahomes then. Whatever.

Trubisky.

 

[Rob0729]

I really never heard of this.

That's better than a Herschel Walker type deal.

But I did run it through Google's AI and it said that Schefter never said that and that Mike Florio heard Schefter say something about how the Patriots weren't trading Garoppolo for anything and he exaggerated it (I'm guessing he said sarcastically "even for four 1st round picks"). Google AI literally calls it an exaggeration from Florio.

I am shocked you never heard this. But it could have been Florio. But I know it was an exaggeration, but the point is that Garoppolo was not on the table for trade for anyone. Of course if someone offered them four first round picks, they would have taken it. Florio's point was the Pats were not listening to any offer based in reality.

 

[upstater1]

What is the difference if it was 2017 or 2018. So instead of Mayfield or Allen, the Pats could have had Mahomes.

It isn't the point of my argument. It was clear Belichick was not going to trade Garoppolo for anything in the offseason of 2017. I never got his love of the guy.

The argument is this: we're talking about the #1 pick in the draft.

There is no way the Browns were trading that for Garoppolo. The only guy who said that also said he was told the Browns were taking Trubisky. I mean, come on. There is no way that Belichick settles for a 2nd when he could have had the #1 pick in the draft. No way.

And we already know that he talked about trading Garoppolo to San Fran well before the draft even happened. Belichick was already considering trading Garoppolo as reported by Lynch. So you're telling me 2 months after the Lynch conversation Garoppolo turned down the #1 pick in the draft?!

 

[upstater1]

I am shocked you never heard this. But it could have been Florio. But I know it was an exaggeration, but the point is that Garoppolo was not on the table for trade for anyone. Of course if someone offered them four first round picks, they would have taken it. Florio's point was the Pats were not listening to any offer based in reality.

People speak in hyperbole. This is not serious. And they play the telephone game.

But we already know Belichick talked trade with Lynch in February.

 

[Rob0729]

Trubisky.

They could have had either. Trubisky was a major reach at #2. Everyone laughed at the Bears and many people thought they were taking Mahomes.

 

[Rob0729]

People speak in hyperbole. This is not serious. And they play the telephone game.

But we already know Belichick talked trade with Lynch in February.

Florio's point was the Pats were not trading Garoppolo for anything. Of course if there was some imaginary trade that would have gotten a GM fired on the spot that was ridiculous, the Pats would have listened.

 

[upstater1]

They could have had either. Trubisky was a major reach at #2. Everyone laughed at the Bears and many people thought they were taking Mahomes.

Schefter was told Browns were taking Trubisky.

Mahomes couldn't hit the broadside of a barn on his pro day. It's really funny to see the scouts flailing.

I know how it goes. I thought Marino, Favre and Rodgers were going to be superstars. I also thought Sam Bradford would be just as good as them!

 

[Triumph]

I know Patricia is an incredibly smart guy, but I still don't get why Belichick entrusted him with so many important jobs in the Patriots' organization that he had no prior experience with.

I initially backed making him the OC because I trusted Belichick, but it was clear Patricia was out of his depth there. Based on on the Pats drafted and built a roster post Caserio, I think he was out of his depth at GM too. Barmore and Stevenson were good picks though (only among a few of the actual good picks during that era of the Patriots).

Patricia didn't tell Corky Mac to throw INTs and perform like axx.

 

[Wozzy]

What is the difference if it was 2017 or 2018. So instead of Mayfield or Allen, the Pats could have had Mahomes.

It isn't the point of my argument. It was clear Belichick was not going to trade Garoppolo for anything in the offseason of 2017. I never got his love of the guy.

Wrong. This tweet is from months prior. According to the NFL website: Dec. 31 - Earliest permissible date for clubs to renegotiate or extend the rookie contract of a drafted rookie who was selected in any round of the 2016 NFL Draft. Any permissible renegotiated or extended player contract will not be considered a rookie contract, and will not be subject to the rules that limit rookie contracts.



They put him on the trade block for almost 4 months that offseason asking for a 1st and nobody wanted him. He was scheduled to play 4 games the season prior during Tom's suspension, he got hurt after 1.5 games and hurt his value.

Here's two more links and more sources including Bill's best friend Mike Lombardi reporting the same.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/10/former-browns-patriots-exec-sees-a-garoppolo-trade-to-cleveland/

www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/curran-patriots-need-be-bowled-over-offer-trade-garoppolo

Also there's reports the Browns did make a draft day offer.



But again, there may have been mitigating factors for the Browns not offering a first.

"One factor ESPN’s Chris Mortensen has reported is that Garoppolo’s agent, Don Yee, made it clear Garoppolo would not sign a long-term contract with the Browns."

www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/265453/did-jimmy-garoppolo-affect-browns-front-office-change

Either way, all this rehashing is meaningless. Sashi Brown told us all long after he got fired he never offered a first for Jimmy, he said he "would have" to a reporter, but that would imply BB was dodging his phone calls for 4 months... which is absurd.

Occam's Razor... if someone offered a first Jimmy, he would have been traded there.

 

[DaBruinz]

"We all"? Hello? Hello?

My take has never changed. Patricia is limited as anyone is, but he is a good football coach. Look at him at Ohio State. Patricia's worse performance was as OC, but he was still better than Bill O'Brien or AVP (look at the stats). Pats players and coaches like Matt, only the Boston Media took out the knives.

Patricia was horrible as an OC. The fact is that Patricia was tasked with implementing the Shanahan "Wide-Zone" and couldn't do it. In fact, he alienated one of the two players who'd played in that offense in Kendrick Bourne. Instead of seeking out the help of Bourne and Trent Brown, Patricia did his own thing. Bourne got so fed up with him that he called Patricia out on it. Which is what landed Bourne in the dog-house that year.

Patricia's offense put up 364 points in 2022.
Bill O'Brien's Offense in 2023 put up 236 point. It also had serious issues on the O-line. From Injuries to Trent Brown, McDermott, Reiff, and Anderson, to Lowe showing he couldn't play RT. Oh.. And the Pats O-line Coach (Klemm) got fired/quit because he told Wolf off. So the Pats were relying on Billy Yates and James Ferentz to coach the O-line.

Bill O'Brien's 1st tenure was significantly different when it had a complete O-line:
2011 - 513 points for
2012 - 557 Points for
2013 - 444 points for (No Competent TE behind Gronk who went out early in the season with injury)
2014 - 468 points for (Won the SB)

So, to say that Patricia was better than O'Brien is a stretch.

 

[upstater1]

Patricia was horrible as an OC. The fact is that Patricia was tasked with implementing the Shanahan "Wide-Zone" and couldn't do it. In fact, he alienated one of the two players who'd played in that offense in Kendrick Bourne. Instead of seeking out the help of Bourne and Trent Brown, Patricia did his own thing. Bourne got so fed up with him that he called Patricia out on it. Which is what landed Bourne in the dog-house that year.

Patricia's offense put up 364 points in 2022.
Bill O'Brien's Offense in 2023 put up 236 point. It also had serious issues on the O-line. From Injuries to Trent Brown, McDermott, Reiff, and Anderson, to Lowe showing he couldn't play RT. Oh.. And the Pats O-line Coach (Klemm) got fired/quit because he told Wolf off. So the Pats were relying on Billy Yates and James Ferentz to coach the O-line.

Bill O'Brien's 1st tenure was significantly different when it had a complete O-line:
2011 - 513 points for
2012 - 557 Points for
2013 - 444 points for (No Competent TE behind Gronk who went out early in the season with injury)
2014 - 468 points for (Won the SB)

So, to say that Patricia was better than O'Brien is a stretch.

?
O'Brien had Brady

 

[Real fan 02]

I always felt this was the case.

Wasn't there a thing where he was the signature on checks?

No, mine were!

 

[Real fan 02]

"We all"? Hello? Hello?

My take has never changed. Patricia is limited as anyone is, but he is a good football coach. Look at him at Ohio State. Patricia's worse performance was as OC, but he was still better than Bill O'Brien or AVP (look at the stats). Pats players and coaches like Matt, only the Boston Media took out the knives.

The inside story of the Patriots’ fall to rock bottom in the Bill Belichick era

A year ago, the Patriots changed their coaching staff to rescue the end of the Bill Belichick era. Still, dysfunction remains. Go inside the team’s season-long fall to rock bottom under the greatest coach of all time.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[Real fan 02]

Interesting note by Doug Kyed from yesterday in his Sunday notes, with Kyed catching up with former Patriots staffer Joe Kim, who told him that it was Patricia who stepped in after Nick Caserio departed and was apparently behind the selections of both Rhamondre Stevenson and Christian Barmore:

NFL Notes: Gabe Jacas brings pass-rush obsession, leadership to Patriots

Patriots coaches were “ecstatic” to draft Gabe Jacas. Why? He’s “consumed” by pass rush. He’d talk about it for 20 hours a day.

www.bostonherald.com

Thanks Ian! I believe we all pretty much understood that Matt Patricia was a loyalist to BB. Didn't Patricia have something to do with trading for Devante Parker as well?

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm glad for him. I saw his interview on JE11's podcast. He's had a lot of ups and downs in his career. We now know he was not fit to be an OC, and that his run as HC at DET wasn't successful. Yet he won 3 SBs as DC and is now doing well as a DC at the college level. He's got a lot going for him. Seems like Josh perhaps he's hit his peak being a coordinator, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The interview pointed out he did take a lot of chances in his career jumps along the way, and of course while it hasn't been perfect he's had great success when things lined up well for him.

Personally I wish he told Bill to f-off when Bill asked him to be OC, but again, Matt is a risk taker. He probably figured that even if things went bad he'd still learn a lot from the experience. Glad he's doing well now.

He like Judge, Lombardi and others over the years. We're loyalists to BB. As they all came up in thier coaching careers under BBs tutelage. On Caserio.. was watching an episode of Games with names.. Josh was on it and told Jules that BB asked him when he waa a quality control guy... does he have any other friends like him and Josh mentioned he had a buddy nick! That's how nick Caserio got his start in the organization from Josh initially not BB. However nick Caserio then became a BB loyalists as well and Caserio has become one of the best GMs in football.

 

[rkarp1]

Florio's point was the Pats were not trading Garoppolo for anything. Of course if there was some imaginary trade that would have gotten a GM fired on the spot that was ridiculous, the Pats would have listened.

100% fact
Both the Browns and San Fran have gone on record that they wanted to trade, but were rebuffed each time by Bill.
When Bill finally did decide to pull the trigger, he made 1 phone call, to San Fran, and made the deal.
He never started a bidding war between teams. he never called any other team.

 

[Wozzy]

100% fact
Both the Browns and San Fran have gone on record that they wanted to trade, but were rebuffed each time by Bill.
When Bill finally did decide to pull the trigger, he made 1 phone call, to San Fran, and made the deal.
He never started a bidding war between teams. he never called any other team.

The Browns had over 3 months in the offseason to make an offer of a first, they didn't. Posters on this and the other forum
started multiple threads fantasizing about the huge king's ransom draft return we'd get for Jimmy since the Pats already said they wanted a first rounder, some people were dreaming of two firsts. Nobody offered one.

So provide the "record" they made the Patriots an offer, otherwise stop lying. A link, a tweet... anything?

You have nothing....

"100% fact" should have evidence, all you have is the opinion of a BB hater who was calling for him to be fired entering the 2014 season.

 

[rkarp1]

The Browns had over 3 months in the offseason to make an offer of a first, they didn't. Posters on this and the other forum
started multiple threads fantasizing about the huge king's ransom draft return we'd get for Jimmy since the Pats already said they wanted a first rounder, some people were dreaming of two firsts. Nobody offered one.

So provide the "record" they made the Patriots an offer, otherwise stop lying. A link, a tweet... anything?

You have nothing....

"100% fact" should have evidence, all you have is the opinion of a BB hater who was calling for him to be fired entering the 2014 season.

AI links and comments below

Historically, the Browns have made several attempts to acquire Garoppolo via trade, all of which were rejected or fell through: [1, 3]

• 2017 Draft & Trade Deadline: The Browns repeatedly inquired with the New England Patriots about a trade. Reports indicate they were willing to offer a first-round pick (specifically the Houston Texans' 2018 pick, which became No. 4 overall). However, Bill Belichick reportedly "froze out" the Browns and instead traded Garoppolo to the San Francisco 49ers for a second-round pick to keep him out of the AFC.
• 2022 Offseason: Speculation arose that the Browns might pursue a trade for Garoppolo from the 49ers following Deshaun Watson's 11-game suspension. While the Browns reportedly considered him a "bridge" option, no official offer was made before Garoppolo restructured his contract with a no-trade clause to stay in San Francisco.
• 2026 Free Agency: Recent links between the Browns and Garoppolo are largely based on his connection to coaching candidate Nate Scheelhaase, who worked with him in Los Angeles. However, the Browns have not "pulled the trigger" on a deal, and Garoppolo has yet to commit to playing another season. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13]

15 sites

• How Cleveland Browns were frozen out of Jimmy Garoppolo ...
  Jan 8, 2018 — They were told Garoppolo wasn't available. They said more than once, "If you are open to trading him, please call." Two days later...
  
  
  Cleveland.com
  
  
  
• Report: Patriots rejected Browns' sizable offer before sending ...
  Jan 9, 2018 — Report: Patriots rejected Browns' sizable offer before sending Jimmy Garoppolo to 49ers. ... The New England Patriots traded Jimmy...
  
  
  Patriots Wire
  
  
  
• Browns reportedly rejected by Patriots after trying to trade for ...
  Apr 28, 2017 — Everyone and their brother knew the Browns wanted Trubisky, but they weren't willing to use the top pick on him (and apparently we...
  
  
  CBS Sports
  

While there is no public record of a formal, written "offer" document, top Cleveland Browns executives and head coach Hue Jackson made several public statements in 2017 confirming their aggressive attempts to land Jimmy Garoppolo. [1, 2, 3]

Quotes from the Browns Front Office
The Browns' leadership at the time, including Sashi Brown (Executive VP of Football Operations) and Hue Jackson (Head Coach), acknowledged the pursuit while often being rebuffed by New England: [1, 2, 3]

• Hue Jackson (Post-Draft, April 2017): When asked about failing to land a quarterback on draft night, Jackson stated, "Obviously, it didn't happen today, but it's not like we didn't try. I guarantee you that. But I think that time's coming, and it will be here."
• Sashi Brown (Pre-Draft, April 2017): Responding to rumors about the team's pursuit, Brown said, "We're going to continue... to do anything and everything we can to get this position better as we continue to move forward." He later clarified that while they had inquired, a deal wasn't imminent: "Could we in theory [trade for a veteran]? Yes, but are we planning on it... No."
• Hue Jackson (Training Camp, 2017): Jackson was vocal about his desire for a "proven" winner, famously saying, "I’ll put a quarterback on this football team that can win." Insiders like Mary Kay Cabot from Cleveland.com confirmed Jackson was the "driving force" behind the interest. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Reported Offers vs. Public Denial
While the Browns publicly framed their efforts as "inquiries," multiple insiders detailed the specific assets the team was prepared to move: [1]

• Draft Weekend 2017: Reports from ESPN's Adam Schefter and NFL Network's Ian Rapoport indicated the Browns "buzzed" the Patriots multiple times.
• The "Second-Round" Offer: Reporting from Cleveland.com stated the Browns made an offer involving a 2017 second-round pick and additional assets, which the Patriots rejected.
• The "First-Round" Willingness: By the trade deadline in October 2017, it was widely reported that the Browns were willing to offer the Houston Texans' 2018 first-round pick (which later became No. 4 overall). However, the Patriots reportedly never called the Browns back before trading him to the 49ers for only a second-round pick. [1, 3, 4, 5, 6]