Celtics 2025-2026 Discussion

[bresna]

Which is why I think there could be another move - I'm not sure how the Porzingis trade exception impacts their luxury tax as they may have shed a few more million

Normally I wouldn't care but I think staying under at least one year resets the clock and that might help them add even more ammunition next season - not that they don't have what it takes to win now.

I'm glad we have Queta but that's a lot to put on his shoulders going into the playoffs. Let's just hope Tatum can step into Simons 6th man role as he gets up to speed, but Stevens really deserves some appreciation for giving us the C we need without giving up any draft picks as would have been the case with Zubac - and Vucevic's numbers are nearly as good!

There is one number where Zubac & Vučević are different: 28:35

Sorry if I am not digging this trade. I would rather have Simons' points than Vucevic's rebounds. There was a time earlier in the season where I would have jumped at this, but not now. Simons has saved this team several times.Vučević is not going to do that.

 

[bresna]

So in reality, this is just part two of the Jrue Holiday salary dump. According to this report: Report: Celtics get Nikola Vučević from Bulls for Anfernee Simons, it saves the Celtics about $22 Million in luxury taxes.

If this trade was for Zubac, I'd be more for it, but I'd still worry that the Celtics are now missing Simons, who could score a bunch when needed. I guess we'll see who that's going to be for the rest of the season.

 

[borisman]

There is also this:

We shall see the genius of Brad Stevens come next season.

TRANSLATION, if you don't click on the X link:

To explain why Boston suddenly has a $27M trade exception(and will be able to go after Claxton / Turner without sending back any contract in June)This is NOT a Simons vs. Vucevic trade.It's TWO trades:• Chicago sends Vuc to Boston = Boston had a $22M Trade Exception from Porzingis, they can absorb "for free" without sending anything back the $21M of Vuc, which fits into the $22M TE• then 2nd trade: Simons sent for NOTHING to Chicago. So Simons is worth $27 = that creates a $27M Trade ExceptionBoston with the $22M TE couldn't get Claxton/Turner in July (a TE cannot be combined with another salary).Boston in "one trade" but actually two has inflated the $22M TE to $27.It's a masterstroke by Brad Stevens. To the point that this workaround doesn't even seem legal.

 

[borisman]

I read that there is more to come in the Simons/Vucevic trade, as it hasn't been finalized and likely won't be until tomorrow.
Let's get another guard to either come off the bench or put PP back on it (not many think PP will ever see the bench again, EVER), last night withstanding.

 

[JoeSixPat]

There is one number where Zubac & Vučević are different: 28:35

Sorry if I am not digging this trade. I would rather have Simons' points than Vucevic's rebounds. There was a time earlier in the season where I would have jumped at this, but not now. Simons has saved this team several times.Vučević is not going to do that.

Right - better to think of Vucevic as a middle ground between Horford and Porzingas in terms of stats.

Although it's worth keeping in mind that Porzingas only averaged 13 points 4 rebounds during the Championship playoff run with the Celts - so if the 35 year old can maintain his 17/9 he's an upgrade over that, and an upgrade over Al - with Queta and Garza playing Al's role off the bench with more youth.

I'll miss Simons as well (heck, I'd love to see them re-sign him next year) but there's a guy named Tatum who might be coming back who will probably make up some of those points.

But your point being that this is may be a one-year rental like Simons was is correct. The Celts still need to address the C position, ideally with someone younger, next season. We'll see if they want to re-sign Vucevic as even at 36, he'd be in a rotation with Queta and Garza.

I have to think that Tatum would be coming off the bench like Simons generally has been so I was never quite sure how Simons, Pritchard and Tatum were all going to get their minutes, so it's a lot clearer now.

Rumor had it that the Celts did make a play for Zubac, who I too would have preferred to address the C spot long term - but that their ask of Simons plus a first rounder this year and a first rounder next year was deemed too high.

Personally I would have been happy to pay that, but like we said, they got a one year upgrade at C by really just swapping players and swapping 2nd round picks.

If they can shed another $6 mil before tomorrow they get to restart their luxury cap clock and that in and of itself lets them spend more money on players for the next few seasons, which should result in more wins.

What it takes to jettison salaries and players like Tillman and Boucher I don't know - they will probably have to sweeten that pot with a draft pick, but even that will be worth it if it allows them to spend more in the next few seasons. The end result is that they are in position to contend NOW - and haven't given up any of their assets for the future. In fact if they can shed that additional salary, they can SPEND a lot more in the future too!

 

[bresna]

I have yet to read anything saying that Tatum is definitely playing this year. Did I miss this? Tatum is not someone you want to rush back.

 

[jimnance]

Stevens has a little Red Aeurbach in him

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have yet to read anything saying that Tatum is definitely playing this year. Did I miss this? Tatum is not someone you want to rush back.

Nope. Nothing has been stated by JT or the team. "No timetable" is still the party line.

JT did throw caution in the wind by saying if he came back this year, he was concerned he would disrupt team chem/game flow. Mazzu was like, "We like disruption"

 

[JoeSixPat]

I have yet to read anything saying that Tatum is definitely playing this year. Did I miss this? Tatum is not someone you want to rush back.

You could be right that they know he's not coming back and this is just a move to get below the luxury tax and tank for the rest of the season to get a better draft pick

But all indications - especially a move like this - indicates they are very serious about contending and that would indicate they DO think Tatum will be back in time of the playoffs.

I would think that you are not the only one advising Stevens about not rushing Tatum back though

Tatum himself will probably have a say in that as well

 

[jimnance]

You could be right that they know he's not coming back and this is just a move to get below the luxury tax and tank for the rest of the season to get a better draft pick

But all indications - especially a move like this - indicates they are very serious about contending and that would indicate they DO think Tatum will be back in time of the playoffs.

I would think that you are not the only one advising Stevens about not rushing Tatum back though

Tatum himself will probably have a say in that as well

I don't think Brad needs any advice. He's well aware that JT  is the most important cog in this franchise and he's not letting Tatum play until he's very close to 100%.
Yes, if he returns this year they're a legit contrnder- but neither Stevens or Joe or Jaylen Brown nor anyone else is willing to risk his future for one playoff run.
Obviously the longterm future success is more important than just one season.
With the huge steps JB has taken he and JT can terrorize the NBA for the several years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think Brad needs any advice. He's well aware that JT  is the most important cog in this franchise and he's not letting Tatum play until he's very close to 100%.
Yes, if he returns this year they're a legit contrnder- but neither Stevens or Joe or Jaylen Brown nor anyone else is willing to risk his future for one playoff run.
Obviously the longterm future success is more important than just one season.
With the huge steps JB has taken he and JT can terrorize the NBA for the several years.

If JT does come back this year he'll be on an unwavering minutes restriction. 15-20min. I don't see him getting over 30min on a consistent basis- especially playoff basketball. He doesn't have the stamina.

 

[bresna]

I've been watching this team with amazement. Last night's win over the Rockets was crazy. This team should have no business winning that game with Brown sitting and a G League Guard given his first NBA start where he's covering Kevin Durant. They crashed the boards and really amped up their defense.

The Patriots this year were a wtf team, with the huge turnaround after making a lot changes. The Celtics are a WTF!! team, having dumped a bunch of (fading) stars, losing their best player and playing a bunch of young guys. It's just incredible to watch.

Today is the trading deadline. Will Giannis make a move? Are the Cs done? We shall see.

BTW - I think the Wizards gave up too much draft capital for an oft-injured 32 year old AD.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I've been watching this team with amazement. Last night's win over the Rockets was crazy. This team should have no business winning that game with Brown sitting and a G League Guard given his first NBA start where he's covering Kevin Durant. They crashed the boards and really amped up their defense.

The Patriots this year were a wtf team, with the huge turnaround after making a lot changes. The Celtics are a WTF!! team, having dumped a bunch of (fading) stars, losing their best player and playing a bunch of young guys. It's just incredible to watch.

Today is the trading deadline. Will Giannis make a move? Are the Cs done? We shall see.

BTW - I think the Wizards gave up too much draft capital for an oft-injured 32 year old AD.

Agreed on all counts - and WTF with some of the potential we've got in young guys on the bench like Harper did last night.

Stevens really has a way of recognizing potential and stockpiling quality low priced players in the D league and at the end of the bench - and plenty of room in the future as Boucher and Tillman will be replaced with some of these guys who will actually take minutes.

Meanwhile as you note, other teams are making head scratching moves - like trading for AD in the first place and essentially giving up Luka for a few first round picks and a bunch of JAGs

Today's shocker (although I guess it shouldn't be a surprise) is the Hawks giving up on Porzingis and trading him for another guy with injury issues - but at least Kuminga is younger and may shake off his injuries and inconsistencies.

Weird how Tatum's injury was almost fortuitous as one can ask fans if they'd rather have the same team as last year with Porzingis etc. - OR would they rather have what we have now with the salary to add younger healthier players than Jrue and Porzingis - PLUS the prospect of Tatum coming back to help the team in the playoffs.

I guess in the end you've gotta hand it to the Mavs for effectively admitting that they screwed up but then literally hit the lottery with Flagg (I'm not sure who looks smoother and more polished - he or Wembanmaya but he's on another level and just 19) - and dumped AD's huge salary.

Washington seems to think AD makes them a contender in the East but to me, you have to treat AD like Porzingas or Horford - keep him on the shelf until the playoffs. Yes you're paying him $60 million a season for that, but you can't expect him to be healthy anymore.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Looks like Part 2 of Stevens plan has borne out

Boucher is gone - had to give Danny Ainge a 2nd rounder to take him - but worth it

Josh Minot is gone for essentially nothing as well - I liked him but didn't seem to get any time after his injury, so that may just show how important it was to the Celtics long term that they cut salary now.

I think that $6 million or so gets them fully out of the "repeater" category in luxury tax terms - meaning they can spend a lot more on making the team even better.

So while we ultimately don't give a crap about how much profit owners make, the reality is, the NBA is set up to really penalize teams that consistently try to "buy" a championship, and almost compelling teams to take a "year off" like the Celtics were forced to by Tatum's injury.

The only difference is that for the Celts - in an admittedly anemic East - have still put themselves in position to contend and even win a championship while taking a year off.

So basically Stevens has cleared out salary WHILE building a stronger team than we had before - with this playoff season being all gravy, with the team positioned to become one of the most dominant teams in the next phase of Stevens plan.

As much as we liked Stevens, we swapped him for another guy on an expiring contract who is good for more points and more rebounds and provides a center pivot player that we desperately needed. So a lot of short and long term improvements for this team - at very little expense.

 

[bresna]

I never liked the Boucher signing ($3.3 Million??) and let's be honest, even as "insurance" off the bench, he never got off of it. Ditto Tillman. $2.5 Million to play garbage time. He needs to be gone too.

Poor Josh Minott... sent off to the 13-36 Brooklyn Nets. I am pretty sure he got beat out by Hugo Gonzalez. I think that if Hugo didn't steal those minutes from Minot with his hustle play, he would have been sent up to Maine for a bit. I'd take Hugo over Minott any time, but Josh played his ass off and deserved better than Brooklyn.

 

[bresna]

I think it's unfair to Simons to look at the points per game when comparing him to Vučević. That 39 point outburst by Simons against the Heat... without that, they lose that game. Simons can do that whenever it's needed. I don't think Vučević has that in him.

 

[bresna]

The Golden (Girls) State Warriors got me to chuckle when they traded for Porzingas. Not only do they reunite him with Al, they add another player over 30. 7 out of 16 players on their roster are over 30. The Celtics have 2 (Vučević & White).

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think it's unfair to Simons to look at the points per game when comparing him to Vučević. That 39 point outburst by Simons against the Heat... without that, they lose that game. Simons can do that whenever its needed. I don't think Vučević has that in him.

No doubt he was responsible for a few wins this season. But the regular season doesn't really count for much - i.e. I'm sure we lost games in the regular season last year because Porzingis or Horford were injured and on the bench, resting for the playoffs - which is losing the battle but winning the war.

No doubt Simons helped win some battles - and again, with the Celts having the freedom to spend more next season, if we want a proven scorer off the bench, I'd love to see him re-signed.

But we've also seen that while this team has what it takes to be the 2 seed going into the playoffs, without more rebounding and a big post up presence at C, they're not going to go far unless they address that. So let's assume Tatum is NOT coming back - I think they are better off with Vucevic and his near double double of 17/9/4 and his defensive/rebounding presence than Simons 15/2/2 off the bench.

And WITH Tatum taking Simons minutes and shots etc, plus Vucevic, I give them a MUCH better chance than with just Tatum and Simons, while depending on Queta at Center (Queta's rebounding of late may make HIM the #1 C next season but for now, we're a Queta injury from flaming out of the playoffs - so we needed some insurance at C at the very least.)

So as a fellow Simons fan, I get it but I think their chances today are better than this time last week, even if Tatum doesn't come back this season - and their chances for NEXT season are through the roof with Tatum back and a fresh re-set on the luxury tax constraints to adding players for a true Championship run next season.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The Golden (Girls) State Warriors got me to chuckle when they traded for Porzingas. Not only do they reunite him with Al, they add another player over 30. 7 out of 16 players on their roster are over 30. The Celtics have 2 (Vučević & White).

Well at least they're out of Porzingis' salary after next year. That maybe means they're more concerned about Kuminga's health, wanting to dump his $25 million or so for next season?

It will be interesting to see what Porzingis fetches as a UFA in the offseason.

 

[bresna]

I don't know why any team would sign Porzingas next season. He's pretty much toast. He's been unreliable for a long time.