Patriots Pregame Thread Week 18: Dolphins at Patriots, 4:25 on Fox

[Zuma]

1-on-1 With Mike Vrabel, Efton Chism, How the Patriots Clinched the AFC East & More | Patriots All Access

 

[patchick]

Westover has less than 6 months experience playing FB. YOU are expecting him to be at the level of James Develin after Develin finally made the Pats Roster. Which took Develin 2.5 years to do.

To be fair, Develin was an Ivy League defensive end! I'd hope the FB learning curve wouldn't be as steep for a Pac-12 tight end.

I'm sure Westover is working incredibly hard to make the position change work, or he wouldn't be here. But to my eyes, he still just doesn't look like a fit for the position. Honestly he seemed like an unlikely choice to begin with -- in college his consensus best traits were his hands and body control to make tough catches, while his perceived weakness were play strength, leverage and hand placement for blocking, and violence and strength to break tackles or drag tacklers.

 

[Uptown]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

1-on-1 With Mike Vrabel, Efton Chism, How the Patriots Clinched the AFC East & More | Patriots All Access

I think the press likes Vrabel because he talks a lot, but he does not say much. HaHa

 

[patfanken]

Chaisson is a .5 sack away from 500K
It sucks that Hollins is hurt because he is 4 catches away from 400K
HH is 5 catches away from 250K
Diggs is 8 catches away from 500K and 30 yards away from 500K

New England Patriots Contract Incentives

New England Patriots active contracts, including terms, guarantees, average and more.

www.spotrac.com

I fully expect them all to get most if not all of those incentives . Don't you?

 

[mgteich]

Thought experiment: Let's just say, arbitrarily, that in 2027 the Patriots and Maye agree on an extension at 5 years, $60M a year. If you were the Broncos, how much would you offer Nix?

no clue
A lot will happen between now and then and a lot depends on the negotiation style of the Bronco's.
Sure, I would probably feel that I would have to offer at least the same.

 

[DaBruinz]

To be fair, Develin was an Ivy League defensive end! I'd hope the FB learning curve wouldn't be as steep for a Pac-12 tight end.

I'm sure Westover is working incredibly hard to make the position change work, or he wouldn't be here. But to my eyes, he still just doesn't look like a fit for the position. Honestly he seemed like an unlikely choice to begin with -- in college his consensus best traits were his hands and body control to make tough catches, while his perceived weakness were play strength, leverage and hand placement for blocking, and violence and strength to break tackles or drag tacklers.

Develin may have been an Ivy League DE, but he also had 4 years of HS football as well. Jake Westover had 2. Two GAMES of HS Football "fullback" before he broke his collarbone during his senior year of HS. That's it. Westover was asked to play H-back at Washington. Look at the numbers mentioned by Brugler below. 55% of the time, Westover was in the slot or lined up wide. Compare that to 42.5% In-line with the other 2.5% (i'm guessing) being in motion.

Playing FB that lines up in the I Formation is an entirely different beast than lining up as an Inline TE, lining up wide, or lining up in the slot. My guess is that Westover showed he had a willingness to do whatever it took to help the team, is a better Special Teams player, and was able to pick up the McDaniels' playbook better than Bell, Fotheringham, Scott, and Davis.

As I stated before, far too many people are expecting Westover to be at or near the level of Develin or even Jakob Johnson and that's erroneous on their part. Playing FB in the NFL is a concept that he's barely 6 months into. But I also stated I don't expect Westover to be the future at FB for the Pats. Not when he turns 27 in June compared to Lampe who is going to be just 23 at the end of March.

 

[slash83]

Was hoping Achane was gonna play, see how the run d looks with Williams back in

 

[Uptown]

I’d love for Trey to get to 1,000 yards rushing tomorrow. It’d be an amazing feat considering how his season started. Would put him over 1,200 total yards..

 

[Uptown]

Keep D’Ernest Johnson. Terrell Jennings is the worst payer on the roster.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Quick note of encouragement, while I leave you guys & the team to your devices. We might or might not take in the game today, as we're in NY seeing what they do well here...

So far, loved Operation Mincemeat (and I'd see it again,) puzzle why we saw Aladdin, and far preferred the Peking Duck at the Chinese joint we went to, to any of our other dining experiences. That said, any day you get a nice bagel/lox/cream cheese with the capers etc., that's a good day. Tonight is Buena Vista Social Club, and we bought the tix before recent events... I have no idea how the BVSC experience might be influenced by the recent international events (it's about Cuban emigre musicians).

May we take care of business, may the Donks implode, and may all the good kids on the roster get the incentives they've been wishing for this holiday season

 

[Mike the Brit]

Keep D’Ernest Johnson. Terrell Jennings is the worst payer on the roster.

I strongly disagree. Not only has he made hard yards with a much less than overwhelming offensive line, his blocking alone is worth his place on the roster.

 

[mike_usagisan]

To be fair, Develin was an Ivy League defensive end! I'd hope the FB learning curve wouldn't be as steep for a Pac-12 tight end.

I'm sure Westover is working incredibly hard to make the position change work, or he wouldn't be here. But to my eyes, he still just doesn't look like a fit for the position. Honestly he seemed like an unlikely choice to begin with -- in college his consensus best traits were his hands and body control to make tough catches, while his perceived weakness were play strength, leverage and hand placement for blocking, and violence and strength to break tackles or drag tacklers.

Is it just that Henry and Hooper have been healthy and he hasn't had much opportunity as a TE?

 

[KCSVEN]

 

[Uptown]

I strongly disagree. Not only has he made hard yards with a much less than overwhelming offensive line, his blocking alone is worth his place on the roster.

Jennings has no burst/vision, ran for 35 yards in the ATL game & hasn’t done much else. He also doesn’t offer anything on ST. Johnson can do everything Jennings can do, but better & plays a role on ST.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Jennings has no burst/vision, ran for 35 yards in the ATL game & hasn’t done much else. He also doesn’t offer anything on ST. Johnson can do everything Jennings can do, but better & plays a role on ST.

If you use a guy as a back-up and short yardage back then it's not very relevant to point out that he hasn't made any big runs. But, whatever ...

 

[mgteich]

If you use a guy as a back-up and short yardage back then it's not very relevant to point out that he hasn't made any big runs. But, whatever ...

To be a top running team we need a short yardage back and a fullback. Neither is required to get much yardage.

 

[Uptown]

If you use a guy as a back-up and short yardage back then it's not very relevant to point out that he hasn't made any big runs. But, whatever ...

I never said anything about big runs. You said he ran for “hard yards.” Point is, Johnson is better & more valuable.

 

[patchick]

Develin may have been an Ivy League DE, but he also had 4 years of HS football as well. Jake Westover had 2. Two GAMES of HS Football "fullback" before he broke his collarbone during his senior year of HS. That's it. Westover was asked to play H-back at Washington. Look at the numbers mentioned by Brugler below. 55% of the time, Westover was in the slot or lined up wide. Compare that to 42.5% In-line with the other 2.5% (i'm guessing) being in motion.

OK, I fully accept your argument that Westover was less ready to play NFL fullback out of college than Develin was.
And, as you pointed out, it took Develin 2 1/2 years to make an NFL roster.
So it's no surprise that Westover isn't ready to be on the roster.
I'm glad we agree!

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm getting a bad feeling about the Diggs & Barmore legal issues.
Now that the Pats are very relevant again, it does seem like ole' Goodell is salivating with his opportunity to most critically hurt the Pats in the worst time and manner.
I doubt it'll be before Miami, but going into the playoffs. Just watch.

What is helpful to both of them is there was no arrest. Had they been arrested then it would be a larger issue. Allegations anyone can make against anyone.