How good has Barmore been this year?

[Real fan 02]

Well if we could trade him for a 1st we would in a nanosecond.
But more realistically with his contract, heath and legal history, we would be lucky to get a 4th.

Even with Barmore I felt we needed to add on the defensive line.. we need someone next to Williams and Tonga that can be more of a disruptive presence..

 

[TheRainMaker]

Well if we could trade him for a 1st we would in a nanosecond.
But more realistically with his contract, heath and legal history, we would be lucky to get a 4th.

His value has plummeted and is too much of a risk. If this situation blows over, keep him for 2026 and see what happens if they can't get anything less than a 3rd-4th round pick. If he has another season like this, their out is in 2027.

Rain,

You're one of the most accurate and fairest posters on here your material is usually spot on and well spoken. I felt bad initially for criticism of Barmore..but there has been enough of a sample to kind of sum up what he is as a player. Going back to him at Alabama of course you want a player at his position to have attitude and play violently.. ( on the field of course) he had temper issues and that along with injury affected his draft status. He's talented and has shown in 2023 that he could be a player of impact.
I truly am starting to feel like his days with the organization are numbered.

Remember he had another off field incident in Providence.. in theory if the "experts" are rating you as one of best defensive lineman in the NFL don't those guys usually hit, sack or touch the QB or force an errant throw? Look at autry in Houston doesn't get any of the fanfare as others at his position and all he does is dominate. He's taking advantage of having Anderson and hunter.. with Williams, Tonga, Durden up front i thought Barmore would be more effective.

I wanted BB to draft him in 2021 and was excited when they made the selection. However, he hasn't been very good aside from his 2023 season. Assuming his legal situation isn't what he's being accused of, he still has time to make an impact in the playoffs.

 

[Real fan 02]

His value has plummeted and is too much of a risk. If this situation blows over, keep him for 2026 and see what happens if they can't get anything less than a 3rd-4th round pick. If he has another season like this, their out is in 2027.

I wanted BB to draft him in 2021 and was excited when they made the selection. However, he hasn't been very good aside from his 2023 season. Assuming his legal situation isn't what he's being accused of, he still has time to make an impact in the playoffs.

Fair assessment. He came on his rookie season and showed promise then got hurt in the Miami game. 2022 he, judon, Uche were a nice trio. 2023 he was near dominant and was looking to be on his way to have Seymour like impact. Then unfortunately the medical situation wich of course not his fault. Andrews for example wasn't the same player when he returned either. I'm hoping he can step his game up in the postseason. I keep holding out hope that the 2023 Barmore will show up.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Fair assessment. He came on his rookie season and showed promise then got hurt in the Miami game. 2022 he, judon, Uche were a nice trio. 2023 he was near dominant and was looking to be on his way to have Seymour like impact. Then unfortunately the medical situation wich of course not his fault. Andrews for example wasn't the same player when he returned either. I'm hoping he can step his game up in the postseason. I keep holding out hope that the 2023 Barmore will show up.

Speaking of Seymour, I look at it this way: if a guy like Seymour had to fight for a new contract after all he did his previous 4 years with the Patriots, why would the Pats pay Barmore after just one good season? Very strange decision making.

 

[Real fan 02]

Speaking of Seymour, I look at it this way: if a guy like Seymour had to fight for a new contract after all he did his previous 4 years with the Patriots, why would the Pats pay Barmore after just one good season? Very strange decision making.

Great points. As we know was a different GM/HC handling RKs $$$.. who loved to maximize players on thier rookie deals.. like Vince on that ridiculous 6 year rookie contract.. guy's like Seymour, Vince, ty law they didn't mince words when it came to thier contracts. Barmore got extended because of the publicity of being ranked dead last in spending was bringing to the organization. In the midst of a terrible season.

 

[Real fan 02]

Very realistic possibility, but a dead cap hit of $13M.
Might be able to void the contract based on "conduct detrimental", which I believe is in all or most contracts?

DD, I went back and forth on Barmore as I gave the guy every benefit of the doubt coming off a serious health ordeal.. guys that have to do what he does on the field in the trenches just aren't the same.. Andrews as well wasn't the same player when he returned... I hear analyst "say" he's this high pressure rate player but I'm not seeing the impact.. even with a healthy Williams and Tonga he still wasn't impactful. The last game I can honestly say i saw Barmore be impactful was week 2 in Miami. Now with the 2nd incident of something off the field and don't forget he was benched for a time during the game this season. Barmore was a force in 2022 and 2023.. I keep holding out hope I'd see that guy return...

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

DD, I went back and forth on Barmore as I gave the guy every benefit of the doubt coming off a serious health ordeal.. guys that have to do what he does on the field in the trenches just aren't the same.. Andrews as well wasn't the same player when he returned... I hear analyst "say" he's this high pressure rate player but I'm not seeing the impact.. even with a healthy Williams and Tonga he still wasn't impactful. The last game I can honestly say i saw Barmore be impactful was week 2 in Miami. Now with the 2nd incident of something off the field and don't forget he was benched for a time during the game this season. Barmore was a force in 2022 and 2023.. I keep holding out hope I'd see that guy return...

Remember Bama made the playoff run with him, dude was literally unblockable.
When we got the 2nd rd and he was on the board I wanted him so bad, but thought there was no way BB would draft him, because every time there was someone on the board in the past thought I really wanted, BB never took that guy.
Not sure where that guy has gone, there have been flashes for sure, but also long lapses of being very meh.
He does seem to have anger issues, and he may be a ticking time bomb.
I would very much like to keep him if we could get the best out of him and he can behave off-field, but I strongly question if either of those things will happen.

 

[Real fan 02]

Remember the Bama made the playoff run with him, dude was literally unblockable.
When we got the 2nd rd and he was on the board I wanted him so bad, but thought there was no way BB would draft him, because every time there was someone on the board in the past thought I really wanted, BB never took that guy.
Not sure where that guy has gone, there have been flashes for sure, but also long lapses of being very meh.
He does seem to have anger issues, and he may be a ticking time bomb.
I would very much like to keep him if we could get the best out of him and he can behave off-field, but I strongly question if either of those things will happen.

Yes! @TheRainMaker said similarly. I like the pick.. we needed a DL a gap penenentrating 6'6 guy who could wreak havoc. Barmore grew up in a tough part of Philly and I love that he's overcome adversity and made it to the league.

But it appears temper is an issue.. seems as if Vrabel's the main one who can calm him.. as far as strictly on the field we are left still waiting for that game wrecker in 2023 to show up.. maybe the organization does give him some time and once we add some serious edge rushers maybe it will help his game?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

maybe the organization does give him some time and once we add some serious edge rushers maybe it will help his game?

With a healthy Williams playing beside him and if we added a legit edge player, I'm sure he could be great.
Emphasis on the "could be".
There are red flags in both his play and off-field conduct.
the off-field stuff is more concerning to me, I think he could/would be good to great on the field with aforementioned conditions.

 

[Real fan 02]

With a healthy Williams playing beside him and if we added a legit edge player, I'm sure he could be great.
Emphasis on the "could be".
There are red flags in both his play and off-field conduct.
the off-field stuff is more concerning to me, I think he could/would be good to great on the field with aforementioned conditions.

Agreed as this is second incident he's had off the field. What's really helping both and he Diggs situations is they weren't arrested.. Peppers was arrested for example. I want him to remain here because I've seen him dominate.. I just don't know if we get that version of him going forward?

I say we add at least 2 serious edge rushers.. I like Landry and Chaisson but they need help.. they both need guys that can rotate with them that's what would enhance the pass rush..

 

[TheRainMaker]

Great points. As we know was a different GM/HC handling RKs $$$.. who loved to maximize players on thier rookie deals.. like Vince on that ridiculous 6 year rookie contract.. guy's like Seymour, Vince, ty law they didn't mince words when it came to thier contracts. Barmore got extended because of the publicity of being ranked dead last in spending was bringing to the organization. In the midst of a terrible season.

I think it was timing as well. Pats had been hoarding cap space since 2020 and you have a window to spend. All those guys got extended prematurely because the team had to spend it on their own since they couldn't attract guys like Ridley and Aiyuk.

DD, I went back and forth on Barmore as I gave the guy every benefit of the doubt coming off a serious health ordeal.. guys that have to do what he does on the field in the trenches just aren't the same.. Andrews as well wasn't the same player when he returned... I hear analyst "say" he's this high pressure rate player but I'm not seeing the impact.. even with a healthy Williams and Tonga he still wasn't impactful. The last game I can honestly say i saw Barmore be impactful was week 2 in Miami. Now with the 2nd incident of something off the field and don't forget he was benched for a time during the game this season. Barmore was a force in 2022 and 2023.. I keep holding out hope I'd see that guy return...

Yep, it doesn't line up. You can't put "pressure" on a QB consistently, yet have the worst luck in the world by never getting to him. You can find YouTube video's hyping him up and gaslighting you into thinking otherwise, but the plays in question are very small sample size. The most important part is that the examples actually resulted in positive plays for the opposing offense. Why would we care about a player almost making a play when it resulted in a 1st down, big play or even a TD? If you do it consistently, it will show up on the stat sheet. It's that simple.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Agreed as this is second incident he's had off the field. What's really helping both and he Diggs situations is they weren't arrested.. Peppers was arrested for example. I want him to remain here because I've seen him dominate.. I just don't know if we get that version of him going forward?

I say we add at least 2 serious edge rushers.. I like Landry and Chaisson but they need help.. they both need guys that can rotate with them that's what would enhance the pass rush..

And we need a legit, put fear in the offense edge rusher, the type of guy we don't have.
I like Chiasson, hope we resign him.
Landry is a decent player, but no opposing O coordinator is having sleepness nights wondering how they are going to gamelan for him.

 

[mgteich]

And we need a legit, put fear in the offense edge rusher, the type of guy we don't have.
I like Chiasson, hope we resign him.
Landry is a decent player, but no opposing O coordinator is having sleepness nights wondering how they are going to gamelan for him.

Yes, we need an EDGE rusher to add to a Landry, Jennings, Ponder and a re-signed Chaisson. Of course, we also need to re-sign Tonga.

That's actually a major amount of cap
re-sign Chaisson
re-sign Tonga
add a top EDGE rusher

I find it more likely that we plan to use of first and/or second round draft pick for improvement at EDGE and perhaps DE or ILB. Of course, will always be looking for mid-level front seven players in free agency.

 

[patfanken]

Barmore was pretty solid in '23, but ever since the clot issues which was a real health scare for him, he has been wildly inconsistent, not buying in, and has shown technique regression, not finishing plays, and his liabilities (lackluster hand fighting, poor leverage) are acting up again.

While his health scare is very understandable and likely has led to him having mental issues on top of the temper he's had from the time he was at Alabama, I think that for Vrabel, who doesn't like players who can't keep their heads, the benefits just don't outweigh the risks here.

They are going to do everything they can to keep Diggs, but something has to give for the Krafts and I think it's going to be Barmore getting traded for peanuts.

They don't have to keep Diggs, they HAVE Diggs for the rest of his productive pro life

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Yes, we need an EDGE rusher to add to a Landry, Jennings, Ponder and a re-signed Chaisson. Of course, we also need to re-sign Tonga.

That's actually a major amount of cap
re-sign Chaisson
re-sign Tonga
add a top EDGE rusher

I find it more likely that we plan to use of first and/or second round draft pick for improvement at EDGE and perhaps DE or ILB. Of course, will always be looking for mid-level front seven players in free agency.

Yup, I think Edge will be the target in the 1st, maybe even with a trade up.
I would be surprised if our 1st rd pick isn't Dline (including edge OLB, however u want to classify it), LB or Oline.
Obv value matters, and if someone slips from another position, then all bets are off, but again think one of those 3 positions would be at the top of our board when the draft starts.

 

[Toofy]

Yup, I think Edge will be the target in the 1st, maybe even with a trade up.
I would be surprised if our 1st rd pick isn't Dline (including edge OLB, however u want to classify it), LB or Oline.
Obv value matters, and if someone slips from another position, then all bets are off, but again think one of those 3 positions would be at the top of our board when the draft starts.

Edge players rarely last into late 20s and sometimes you need to get lucky when drafting them. You have better luck with DT or LB. I would prefer either of those in 20s unless you have an future all pro guard or RT falling into our lap.

 

[patfanken]

Also keep in mind that with Williams out, DCs had only HIM to worry about. Our edge guys have good motors, but are average and don't require any special attention. So Barmore was our only threat and schemed accordingly.

I would look at that PFF score and given the above, look at that pressure total as being more impressive.

Hey I'm a bit disappointed in Barmore too, but not nearly to the degree a lot of you are. Face the facts we really need at least one alpha edge rusher, the kind defenses need to plan for, to unlock the true value of our DTs

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Edge players rarely last into late 20s and sometimes you need to get lucky when drafting them. You have better luck with DT or LB. I would prefer either of those in 20s unless you have an future all pro guard or RT falling into our lap.

Correct, edge players usually go quick.
Always exceptions however, Chandler Jones slipped to 21.
We need all the positions you referenced. Chances of getting blue chippers at all 3 is incredibly unlikely, but do feel you have a better chance at getting a good starter level OG or LB in rd 2 or 3 than a gifted edge player.
Again, always exceptions.

 

[zoostation]

Barmore is a really, really good player playing with a healthy Williams and Tonga.

This ^
He's excelled with MW in the lineup.

 

[stinkypete]

With a healthy Williams playing beside him and if we added a legit edge player, I'm sure he could be great.
Emphasis on the "could be".
There are red flags in both his play and off-field conduct.
the off-field stuff is more concerning to me, I think he could/would be good to great on the field with aforementioned conditions.

He takes up a lot of cap and tabloid space for a guy who needs a stud DT and edge playing alongside him to shine.