PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Patriots Fall 35-31 to the Bills

[SVN]

Can’t tell from that if Henderson stopped or was held but May’s is having an mvp season because he makes those throws. You can’t have everything. If you want captain checkdown a big chunk of what has made us successful disappears.

Sure but part of playing QB is playing the percentages , taking the easy throws. That is a commentary which has stood all yr by people like kurt warner etc. That sometimes he misses the easier throws. In this case he tried a harder one but in others he can take off running. He is still learning but something he needs to add on. I remember this clip of brady talking to josh allen

 

[Patnation21]

Blaming the refs is ridiculous. There was maybe one call that was considered a little iffy. The PI call on the ball that Shakir apparently caught was a clear PI call, they got that right. Besides, our first TD shouldn't have even happened, the refs blew the catch on 3rd down that wasn't a catch. These things happen to both teams. We blew a 21 point lead and the offense did NOTHING in the 2nd half. If not for that long rushing TD, the offense had 15 total yards in 2nd half. We deserve to lose.

 

[SVN]

But they didn't though. Had they scored enough to win the game, they would have won the game. I get your overall point and mostly agree but the offense and Maye do deserve some blame for that loss. Just not as much blame as a lot of others. Despite everything else falling apart we still win that game, probably easily, if Maye just plays average in the second half. One QB played like an MVP when it mattered most and it wasn't our guy. That's fine. He is still young and learning but that is what happened.

Maye really never got into the game esp in 2nd half. After Buffalo scored in the 3rd Q opening drive and we got -1 yards on the first hand off, he and offense got spooked. They never really got the ball much and went cold. they had the ball for 4-5 mins in the 3Q and 2 in the 4th.

 

[Toofy]

I donno if it's maye or Josh. Either one of them goes into slumber in second half. They can play well with lead but when someone starts scoring, we just are not able to adjust .

I still feel maye needs to improve on short passing game and then quick slants . Teams will start to keep everyone deep and dare maye to attack middle or slants.

Just cover hollins and Boutte through deep zone coverage and see if maye takes the easy intermediate throws.

Right now looks like we don't have that many receivers who can play zone well leave apart diggs.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure but part of playing QB is playing the percentages , taking the easy throws. That is a commentary which has stood all yr by people like kurt warner etc. That sometimes he misses the easier throws. In this case he tried a harder one but in others he can take off running. He is still learning but something he needs to add on. I remember this clip of brady talking to josh allen

He isn’t missing the easier throws he is choosing the more aggressive throw.
As I said you can wish for a qb who won’t throw to Henderson on a wheel route to pass it up for a dump off, but that means he doesn’t make all of the other incredible down the field throws he has made. You can’t have a qb who chooses the mindset you hoped for in hindsight.
I’m sure there was a dump off available on the throw to boutte for example. Coaching him to do what you wanted here may have been a better result in this play but it would be coaching his best strength out of him. We would not be a better team.

 

[Ring 6]

Maye really never got into the game esp in 2nd half. After Buffalo scored in the 3rd Q opening drive and we got -1 yards on the first hand off, he and offense got spooked. They never really got the ball much and went cold. they had the ball for 4-5 mins in the 3Q and 2 in the 4th.

People forget. The biggest weakness in our offense during the dynasty years was when they either had a lead or played a good team and focused on “being on schedule”. Worrying about getting to 3rd and makable instead of making damn plays. The best play in football is the 12-20 yards throw on first down. When you get scared and want to gain 4 yards on first down, you get results like this where one screwed up play kills the drive.
Brady dominated 3rd downs like no QB but when we decide to make him convert 7 per drive something usually short circuited.

The way to protect a lead is to score more not keep the other team off the field. I don’t care how quick I score because I just went up another TD.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Sect140]

Does Maye deserve any criticism? Or is he the Christ Child?

Of course he does but not as much as you give him every single GDT and post GDT.

 

[Ring 6]

Does Maye deserve any criticism? Or is he the Christ Child?

Why would anyone WANT to criticize the guy who is far and away most responsible for taking a 4-13 team to 11-3.
Anyone can be criticized. It’s just stupid for example to criticize the top salesman in a top of the market sales force because of the ones he missed.
Or maybe something you can understand better, why criticize the guy who digs the most ditches the fastest.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't know much about him, but the Texans front 7 has been nasty this year.

Saw him play and he moved the pocket Josh Allen had no time to step up..

 

[Real fan 02]

I like Naquan; although he may a bit harder to get since Mario Edwards was just lost for the season. Houston may be more inclined to pay/keep him.

Agreed.. I never would have thought losing Williams would mean we can't suddenly stop the run.. as you're seeing my post with @TheRainMaker.. I've been disappointed with Barmore and he's supposed to be big part of the DL.. Tonga is excellent against the run but he's just back from injury.. we need to step up the run defense badly.

 

[SVN]

After Further Review: Breaking Down QB Drake Maye, the Patriots Defense and Quick-Hit Film Notes From Sunday’s Loss to the Bills

 

[Hugepatsfan]

He isn’t missing the easier throws he is choosing the more aggressive throw.
As I said you can wish for a qb who won’t throw to Henderson on a wheel route to pass it up for a dump off, but that means he doesn’t make all of the other incredible down the field throws he has made. You can’t have a qb who chooses the mindset you hoped for in hindsight.
I’m sure there was a dump off available on the throw to boutte for example. Coaching him to do what you wanted here may have been a better result in this play but it would be coaching his best strength out of him. We would not be a better team.

You've argued this a lot and I largely agree with you but I think you kinda take it to the extreme sometimes. An elite NFL QB needs to understand when to be aggressive and when not to be. It can't be aggressive 100% of the time and never take the open guy. That's just not practical. If a QB can only process that as option A or option B 100% of the time it won't last for them.

That Boutte play was just simply a terrible decision by Maye. Boutte was WIDE open. It's 3rd and 4, you have to be aware of the situation. Heck, if Maye hit Boutte with an accurate pass in stride it probably goes for just about as many yards as the deeper throw to Henderson. Let's just call a spade a spade... Maye made an awful decision there and you don't need hindsight to say that.

 

[captain stone]

I thought his clutch gene was what made Dee Ford lineup offsides when he threw that int.

One of the VERY few calls the criminally incompetent zebras got right that day.

 

[Ring 6]

You've argued this a lot and I largely agree with you but I think you kinda take it to the extreme sometimes. An elite NFL QB needs to understand when to be aggressive and when not to be. It can't be aggressive 100% of the time and never take the open guy. That's just not practical. If a QB can only process that as option A or option B 100% of the time it won't last for them.

That Boutte play was just simply a terrible decision by Maye. Boutte was WIDE open. It's 3rd and 4, you have to be aware of the situation. Heck, if Maye hit Boutte with an accurate pass in stride it probably goes for just about as many yards as the deeper throw to Henderson. Let's just call a spade a spade... Maye made an awful decision there and you don't need hindsight to say that.

But it’s not a matter of choosing to be aggressive. It’s a matter of executing plays. Henderson was his first read. If he didn’t stop, or get held or whatever that was it was a big play. It’s not just about getting first downs it’s about taking chunks of the field.
A QBs task isn’t to loo over the field and choose where he wants to throw. It is to decide if his primary target is open. You are asking him to have a less aggressive definition of what open is, and I totally disagree based upon everything he has done this year. If you want to send in a play with primary reads being dump offs, he will dump off if it’s open. If you give him Henderson on a shell route with inside leverage on a lb Drake Maye needs to take that. A first down doesn’t win the game, we need a Td with 2 minutes left and it’s 3rd down in 4 down territory. Doing what you do best is the right call. If Henderson isn’t held and it goes for 40 yards are you complaining? Because that’s what was intended.

If you want to turn drake Maye into a guy who is afraid to throw the ball to a receiver he deems open 20 yards down the field so we can dunk and dunk our way to mediocrity I won’t agree.
If you coach that play out of him then you are coaching dozens of big plays, the biggest reason we are in first place away from him and turning him into Mac jones.

At some point people just have to realize that no matter what approach you take you will not be successful 100% of the time and stop trying to throw out the good that would the vast majority of the time because they think mediocre working more often is somehow better.

 

[condon84]

I have no idea about Chiasson but it looks like he thought something was going to happen when he figured it wasnt and tried to get back but it was obviously too late.
The rest is just a cover 2 blown coverage. The DBs were not great but it happens. The LB's though were completely out of their depth with Spillane out so its not really surprising. Im (again) guessing the communication was a bit off without Spillane.

His assignment must have been to chip the RB. I don't think he would be expected to have man coverage on him since we are in zone. And that is part of why this is a bad design. It effectively removes Chiasson as an effective pass rusher. We already don't generate enough pressure with 4 rushers, putting this assignment on him doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[condon84]

Vrabel needs to borrow from some of BB's 3rd & long defensive looks. First, they should be in big dime with Pettus replacing the 2nd LB. Their All-Pro CB should be trailing the #1 option in man coverage (Kincaid). Go from there.

Gonzalez, Davis & Jones are the best CB trio in the NFL. Their LBs are mediocre & even worse with Spillane out of the game. The safeties are fine but Woodson is still a rookie. Third & long should be almost exclusively cover 1 & 2 man with their personnel.

This is what perplexes me, our trio of CB is as good as there is in the league, yet it seems like we don't take advantage of it enough. Denver has a PI machine in Moss, yet they leave him on an island almost exlusively and they send extra rushers all the time to speed up the QB. I just don't see this type of creativity on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Real fan 02]

more than tua its achane who scares me . rest of the 3 games have all good RBs and if i am them i just handing it off. i read somewhere that josh allen threw his last pass with 8 mins left in the 4th Q. Thats how much teams have success running vs the pats.

I also believe it has every bit to do with the front.. the alignments.. we have been tops in the league stopping the run suddenly milt goes out and it's like we forgot to defend the run..

 

[condon84]

After Further Review: Breaking Down QB Drake Maye, the Patriots Defense and Quick-Hit Film Notes From Sunday’s Loss to the Bills

From the article -

'Objectively, this was a messy film defensively, with breakdowns in their run fits, poor rush coordination, busts in zone coverages'

This type of poor play due to mental mistakes should be unacceptable for such a big game and coming off a bye week.

 

[Vindicate]

This is what perplexes me, our trio of CB is as good as there is in the league, yet it seems like we don't take advantage of it enough. Denver has a PI machine in Moss, yet they leave him on an island almost exlusively and they send extra rushers all the time to speed up the QB. I just don't see this type of creativity on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm under the impression that it's our LB/Safeties that are ultimately failing in zone. We also lack the talent to rush the QB often. It seems our current defense is moreso a product of limited personnel.

However, it's also really important to remember. If your primary run defenders are out, it limits you in other areas. You're putting more on the shoulders of everyone else.

Kuhr really needs to work with his safeties and LBs about coordination and what they're seeing pre-snap. If not everyone is on the same page, you're gonna look really dumb in the NFL on defense. I think we're seeing some of the limitations of Kuhr's interim-coaching here, I would've liked these miscomms to be ironed out.

On an offensive note, the article @SVN posted was interesting with this tidbit:

To answer the blueprint question, the Bills essentially ditched playing single-high safety coverages after Maye diced them up in the first half (4-of-5, 73 passing yards, 17-yard scramble). After playing a 42.9% single-high rate in the first half, the Bills played 86.7% of Maye second-half drop-backs in two-high safety coverages, mixing in cover-two (backside match), two-man, and some cover-six (quarter-quarter-half), which gave the Patriots some problems.

Sounds like the Bills wanted to do two things in that second half: never give up the big play and confuse Maye with hybrid schemes and disguised coverages with the likes of Cover-Six. In fact, it makes sense to attack our offense this way, no? If I know Maye is likely to miss something in the intermediate because the team really likes the deep, employing a defense that is susceptible to the intermediate is less of a gamble. Furthermore, with Maye still getting used to the NFL, Cover-6 puts pressure on the QB to determine if he's looking at 2/4/6, and then make the right decision. Would that decision be made post-snap?

I'm not an X's/O's person, but I'm trying to get better. If anyone thinks I'm getting it wrong, please chime in.