Technical Question: Snap Count

[Captain Cliche]

Do you think opposing D's are getting to tee up on Maye partially due to a predictable snap count/cadence?
Is Maye and the line too green to attempt changing things up?
Do you run the risk of false starts and illegal procedure penalties with this O-line that has rookies and not been together that long?

Watching the last game, the snap seemed to be the same each down and very predictable.

People with more expertise than me please fill me in.

 

[Vindicate]

A lot of what happens to Maye are two things, sometimes happening in tandem:

1 - The OL still isn't great. They've gotten better in pass pro, but even then it isn't pretty. I've seen a lot of crit towards Onwenu this season, but some sure someone who watches the OL more closely could answer that.

2 - Maye is also like Burrow in the sense that he's sometimes a little too fearless in the pocket and holds onto the ball way too long.

Keep in mind how it has really looked bad the past two weeks against the best DL in the league up to that point on the Browns and Garrett, then us facing the Falcons, who have good coverage and aggressively blitz.

I don't think there will be another 5+ sack game soon, but that doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Maye needs to protect himself more, know when to ditch the ball, and the OL is still a work in progress.

Not to say snap count is the issue, but most of the sacks I've seen that are quick (which indicates knowing a snap count, you can easily time your blitz), are actually just completely whiffed blocking the leads to an open gap/unblocked blitzed OR it seems like Maye wasn't paying enough respect to the pressure.

 

[dannydyn]

Maye also reminds me a bit of Allen in that he sometimes forgets to slide and goes all in when scrambling. I grimace every time I see it.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you think opposing D's are getting to tee up on Maye partially due to a predictable snap count/cadence?
Is Maye and the line too green to attempt changing things up?
Do you run the risk of false starts and illegal procedure penalties with this O-line that has rookies and not been together that long?

Watching the last game, the snap seemed to be the same each down and very predictable.

People with more expertise than me please fill me in.

Pop Warner kids can handle varied snap counts. I’ve seen no evidence that the Patriots don’t change the snap counts.

 

[Ring 6]

A lot of what happens to Maye are two things, sometimes happening in tandem:

1 - The OL still isn't great. They've gotten better in pass pro, but even then it isn't pretty. I've seen a lot of crit towards Onwenu this season, but some sure someone who watches the OL more closely could answer that.

2 - Maye is also like Burrow in the sense that he's sometimes a little too fearless in the pocket and holds onto the ball way too long.

Keep in mind how it has really looked bad the past two weeks against the best DL in the league up to that point on the Browns and Garrett, then us facing the Falcons, who have good coverage and aggressively blitz.

I don't think there will be another 5+ sack game soon, but that doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Maye needs to protect himself more, know when to ditch the ball, and the OL is still a work in progress.

Not to say snap count is the issue, but most of the sacks I've seen that are quick (which indicates knowing a snap count, you can easily time your blitz), are actually just completely whiffed blocking the leads to an open gap/unblocked blitzed OR it seems like Maye wasn't paying enough respect to the pressure.

We run more slow developing plays because we have the best deep and intermediate thrower in the league.
The consequence is the OL must hold longer and that will mean more sacks. The benefit of doing so far outweighs the consequence.
The worst thing we could do is turn Maye into a Checkdown King.

 

[Pape]

Maye also reminds me a bit of Allen in that he sometimes forgets to slide and goes all in when scrambling. I grimace every time I see it.

i still have those shots to the head he took last year ingrained in my memory

 

[Vindicate]

We run more slow developing plays because we have the best deep and intermediate thrower in the league.
The consequence is the OL must hold longer and that will mean more sacks. The benefit of doing so far outweighs the consequence.
The worst thing we could do is turn Maye into a Checkdown King.

I'm sure it will also help Maye develop better instincts, too. He's been good at adapting week-by-week on other stuff. I just don't want to see him take more damage than needed and end up with an injury.

Sack totals of each game thus far: 4, 3, 5, 1, 4, 1, 4, 6, 6

I tried to look at the highlights video to find the sacks and point to what I'm referring about Maye not getting rid of it, but for some odd reason they didn't put the sacks in there :/

However, here's this by Lazar: After Further Review: Breaking Down QB Drake Maye, Gonzalez vs. London and More From Sunday's Win Over the Falcons

"He shared blame for five of his six sacks, an issue we brought up multiple times last week, and had a game-changing turnover trying to play "hero ball" to close out the first half. After the game, Maye acknowledged that he's developing a "bad habit of trying to break tackles" rather than living to play another down, which, to his credit, is good self-scouting in the wake of what was the team's sixth straight win."

He's at least aware and will probably improve.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sure it will also help Maye develop better instincts, too. He's been good at adapting week-by-week on other stuff. I just don't want to see him take more damage than needed and end up with an injury.

Sack totals of each game thus far: 4, 3, 5, 1, 4, 1, 4, 6, 6

I tried to look at the highlights video to find the sacks and point to what I'm referring about Maye not getting rid of it, but for some odd reason they didn't put the sacks in there :/

However, here's this by Lazar: After Further Review: Breaking Down QB Drake Maye, Gonzalez vs. London and More From Sunday's Win Over the Falcons

"He shared blame for five of his six sacks, an issue we brought up multiple times last week, and had a game-changing turnover trying to play "hero ball" to close out the first half. After the game, Maye acknowledged that he's developing a "bad habit of trying to break tackles" rather than living to play another down, which, to his credit, is good self-scouting in the wake of what was the team's sixth straight win."

He's at least aware and will probably improve.

If you try to make him not extend plays you lose a lot more good plays than sacks. You can’t really even hit a qb so wear and tear by sacks really isn’t a thing.
I don’t take anyone seriously who uses hero ball as if that’s a real thing.

Maye should continue to extend plays because the good far outweighs the bad. I hope this coaching staff doesn’t try to turn him into Chad Pennington.

 

[Vindicate]

If you try to make him not extend plays you lose a lot more good plays than sacks. You can’t really even hit a qb so wear and tear by sacks really isn’t a thing.
I don’t take anyone seriously who uses hero ball as if that’s a real thing.

Maye should continue to extend plays because the good far outweighs the bad. I hope this coaching staff doesn’t try to turn him into Chad Pennington.

I see what you're getting at in general but I disagree here. You definitely take on wear and tear, sacks can still hurt.

 

[Ring 6]

I see what you're getting at in general but I disagree here. You definitely take on wear and tear, sacks can still hurt.

Mayes a big boy he can take a few hits. Do you want to sacrifice the positives? It’s working tremendously, why change it? You lose way more than you gain.

 

[Vindicate]

Mayes a big boy he can take a few hits. Do you want to sacrifice the positives? It’s working tremendously, why change it? You lose way more than you gain.

Changing isn't binary though, right? It's doesn't have to be a matter of on/off. It's developing that nuance. Listen, I love to hear a QB say that sacks on 3rd down don't count because it's do or die, I want that 1st down. But there can be some nuance there. And I do believe that the longer Maye is in the league, he'll develop that sense.

To be clear, I don't want to just go the opposite direction: the NFL is its most boring when it's running basic-ass checkdown quick passes and making everything about YAC, imo. I think that **** freezes in the playoffs, too.

 

[Ring 6]

Changing isn't binary though, right? It's doesn't have to be a matter of on/off. It's developing that nuance. Listen, I love to hear a QB say that sacks on 3rd down don't count because it's do or die, I want that 1st down. But there can be some nuance there. And I do believe that the longer Maye is in the league, he'll develop that sense.

To be clear, I don't want to just go the opposite direction: the NFL is its most boring when it's running basic-ass checkdown quick passes and making everything about YAC, imo. I think that **** freezes in the playoffs, too.

It’s changing him. You can’t just say play some plays differently. If you tell him to throw the ball away or fall down instead of extending plays you eliminate the big plays he is creating too. They are a much bigger positive than the negative you prevent.
I want him wanting to make a play every time. That’s part of why he is so good. Making him docile doesn’t make him better.

 

[Schmo]

I already see that he wants to make the most of every play. I'm happy that he has SOME awareness of when to concede. These days, if you get up funny, they take you out of the game.

If it comes to a big playoff game, I have no doubt that he will take on a LB head on.

But to the original point, yes, mix up the snap counts.