Is the 2025 defensive coaching Sub-Par ( Williams / Kuhr)

[DC Patriots]

Williams needs to eat a god damn salad and drink a coconut water before every game. Absolutely ludicrous situation that he can’t take health seriously. I’d say he’s 51 going on 81, but that’s an insult to folks living well in their 80s who tend to keep their **** straight, unlike him. Tried to sugar coat this post as much as possible..

Yeah, I wish for his sake that it’s still at the “you need to take care of yourself or something bad will happen stage.” I think he moved onto the “you didn’t take care of yourself and now there’s a problem,” stage.

Absence of a DC is probably hurting them. They will get better.

As I said in another thread, Raiders protected Spillane by pairing him with Diablo who was a converted safety and excellent in coverage. I’d like to see the pats try pairing him with Duggar

 

[p8ryts]

1) The inside ILB's have been so well coached so that Kuhn has shown us that he has earned a promotion?
2) The secondary coaching and defensive play-calling needs improvement. How is Kuhn the answer. Does he have solid experience in those roles?

I didn't say either of those things. I just said the dual role is not an excuse.

 

[p8ryts]

When Austin was having his struggles he could have just been winded in Miami it happens.. DJ James could have been a guy in the rotation to at least give a different look to Miami.. anyhow.. the drop off from gonzo to the next guy is glaring.

Did anyone ever figure out why James was cut? He did seem capable.

 

[Real fan 02]

Did anyone ever figure out why James was cut? He did seem capable.

It's still a mystery.. DJ James was one of the best players all training camp and earned a roster spot.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yeah, I wish for his sake that it’s still at the “you need to take care of yourself or something bad will happen stage.” I think he moved onto the “you didn’t take care of yourself and now there’s a problem,” stage.

Absence of a DC is probably hurting them. They will get better.

As I said in another thread, Raiders protected Spillane by pairing him with Diablo who was a converted safety and excellent in coverage. I’d like to see the pats try pairing him with Duggar

We need to see Spillane paired with Marty.. Zuma brought this up yesterday.. Marty has the speed, range and abilities to cover and handle TEs and RBs out the backfield. Elliss is a decent enough player but coverage isn't he strong suit. We need more speed at LB. The defense line has been excellent.. tackling and secondary play has been the issues... however we'd rather see them have these struggles now and getting better as the season goes on that's the hope.

 

[BobDigital]

Even with Gonzo as our best player being out I still find the situation unacceptable, particularly last game. They currently have one of the best DLs in the NFL. Davis played well last game.

Those 2 factors alone should have led to a better result. I don't mind that they have up 20 defensive points so much. That is what happens in the modern NFL even for pretty good Ds. It is how they gave it up. For all the talk to hype up the Dolphins... This offense hasn't done much recently. And had one of their best games vs our D in the past 19 games they've played. Not good enough. The pass D with that line shouldn't be that bad. I know it is a lot of new names back there... but a lot of teams have a lot of new names every year... and not all of them are so out of sorts early.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Williams needs to eat a god damn salad and drink a coconut water before every game. Absolutely ludicrous situation that he can’t take health seriously. I’d say he’s 51 going on 81, but that’s an insult to folks living well in their 80s who tend to keep their **** straight, unlike him. Tried to sugar coat this post as much as possible..

This post is idiotic and ignorant. You have no clue what the nature of this man's medical issues are, and you have no right to assume "salad and drink a coconut" water fix it. The only thing that is ludicrous is your post. Here are the facts.

1. In March, Williams had a "health scare" and did not share specifics. He spoke about having a wakeup call, eat right, taking meds, and working out. He addressed it, and said his mind was clear. To me, a logical explanation is diabetes and high blood pressure. Type 1 is genetic and Type 2 is workable. This is just a guess, but it fits. Perhaps a heart issue fits as well, but I don't think so because he needs a longer recovery. These are just guesses.

2. On August 4, Williams was treated for dehydration after collapsing during practice. The weather was mostly sunny and 82 degrees. There is no evidence this was related to the first health issue. It can happed to anyone and does not have to be related.

3. On September 10, Vrabel said, Williams was gone due to "unforeseen circumstances." Vrabel said 3 days ago that Williams is expected to rejoin the team. We have no idea if its related to the other circumstances.

That is all we know. Only an idiot jumps to the conclusion that you did. How about this? Did you know that Williams' 4 year old son, Tyson, died of a sudden, unexpected illness? Tyson passed away at Oakland Children's Hospital after being hospitalized for over a week and shortly after celebrating his birthday. The cause of death was never publicly disclosed. So sit down and shut up. You have no right to criticize Williams. You are a clueless idiot fan who has no idea what this guy is facing. The father might be showing symptoms that the son died of, and they are being cautious.

 

[Real fan 02]

Even with Gonzo as our best player being out I still find the situation unacceptable, particularly last game. They currently have one of the best DLs in the NFL. Davis played well last game.

Those 2 factors alone should have led to a better result. I don't mind that they have up 20 defensive points so much. That is what happens in the modern NFL even for pretty good Ds. It is how they gave it up. For all the talk to hype up the Dolphins... This offense hasn't done much recently. And had one of their best games vs our D in the past 19 games they've played. Not good enough. The pass D with that line shouldn't be that bad. I know it is a lot of new names back there... but a lot of teams have a lot of new names every year... and not all of them are so out of sorts early.

Agreed. The dolphins speed in the south Florida heat are real factors for athletes.. I rather the defense have it's problems sorting out now as with each passing week they make improvements.. the play calling didn't matter much to me.. Zack Kurh is coaching Vrabel's defense same as T. Williams.. the team only gave up 20 points on defense.. the other 7 was scored on STs.. the defensive line has been awesome.. as we go along guys like farmer and ponder.. the rookies will play more into the rotation.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Spillane was the best last year, I think he was Team MVP.

I had my eye on him for most of the game. You'd see the snap and he's still standing there, flat-footed, like he can't read the play at all. I've never seen anything like it. Great linebackers are already flying to wherever they need to be.

 

[Sciz]

Did anyone ever figure out why James was cut? He did seem capable.

This was his only real defensive snap. (He was also on the field for the spike on the next play.) He got completely spun around, and a better throw could have gotten the WR out of bounds to stop the clock to allow another play before attempting the FG. Kyles followed up by noting that the whole point of that play call was to run out the clock by making a tackle in bounds, which only really happened because of the bad throw. At the very least, it seems like he should be playing with outside leverage to keep the WR away from the sideline and toward the inside help.

They moved decisively to release him afterward, as they didn’t even sign somebody to take that roster spot. They just wanted him gone.

 

[mgteich]

your asking a question that was already answered.
Davis was not on Washington. because the defense was in zone 80-85% of the game.
if you look at the targets against stat, Davis' zone was barely thrown at

This should be a stickie for those who have criticized the play of Davis.

 

[mgteich]

I didn't say either of those things. I just said the dual role is not an excuse.

fair enough

 

[mgteich]

It's still a mystery.. DJ James was one of the best players all training camp and earned a roster spot.

There was a need for a CB or two, especially with Ginzo out.

James earned a roster spot.
Woods was claimed.
Ballentine, Minor and Battle were signed to the Practice Squad.
James was waived after two games.

CONCLUSION
After a month after final cut, James has shown nothing that convinced the team that he is in any way valuable enough to be on the 53. Given that Gonzo hasn't been playing and Woods didn't have reps (injured?), James was NOT given any opportunities to play. The team has made its evaluation.

I don't see it as a huge deal that posters don't have the same opinions as the team staff of how well a player is doing in the practices.

Has James been signed by another team to their 53 or Practice Squad? That would give you an indication of how 31 other sets of evaluators feel about James.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Valid point. But so much dependency of the entire unit on one player doesn't Bode well .

The offense turned over the entire line leave apart onwenu and is doing decent with 2 rookies. The thought just came wherein Williams health scare has thrown a spanner in the works and impacted coaching and defensive game plan . Spillane is paid 11 million a year and plays worse than a rookie 5th rounder .

Maybe they pull their socks and get better as the year progresses but for now, I am not sure if we can leave the coaching off the hook and blame it just on new team and gonzo absence .

I feel all 3 factors are contributing.

Toofy, even during the Belichick years September became part of an extended preseason, as they….oops, never finished it, but you get the drift.

 

[Real fan 02]

There was a need for a CB or two, especially with Ginzo out.

James earned a roster spot.
Woods was claimed.
Ballentine, Minor and Battle were signed to the Practice Squad.
James was waived after two games.

CONCLUSION
After a month after final cut, James has shown nothing that convinced the team that he is in any way valuable enough to be on the 53. Given that Gonzo hasn't been playing and Woods didn't have reps (injured?), James was NOT given any opportunities to play. The team has made its evaluation.

I don't see it as a huge deal that posters don't have the same opinions as the team staff of how well a player is doing in the practices.

Has James been signed by another team to their 53 or Practice Squad? That would give you an indication of how 31 other sets of evaluators feel about James.

Correct. However the team signed him to the 53. He couldn't have faded in thier opinions so fast that he got cut. Anyhow having gonzo the guy that is needed allows guys to play more in line of pecking order.. the defense to be more mutilple. I for one was open to the idea of adding another Vet at CB.. to at least be in the rotation. However it appears as this is what the roster will be... so what we see, is what we get.

 

[patfanken]

Agreed. The dolphins speed in the south Florida heat are real factors for athletes.. I rather the defense have it's problems sorting out now as with each passing week they make improvements.. the play calling didn't matter much to me.. Zack Kurh is coaching Vrabel's defense same as T. Williams.. the team only gave up 20 points on defense.. the other 7 was scored on STs.. the defensive line has been awesome.. as we go along guys like farmer and ponder.. the rookies will play more into the rotation.

you are right that defensive play calling matters a LOT less that offensive. So much of what the defense does is determined by the down/distance, formation, and motion(s) that are happening pre and post snap than by a predetermined call by a coach on the sideline.

This is the stuff that they do all week in their meetings that are more important to the ultimate effect of the defense than game day calls. It takes a lot of time to figure out and anticipate what a team is going to run against you THAT particular week, especially a team like the Steelers you don't see you every year. (thou I remember a time in the aughts when it seemed we played Denver EVERY year for several years.

At any rate. One of these days I might start a thread and give you an idea of what goes into a week's defensive game plan. It's EXTENSIVE, to say the least.

 

[mgteich]

Correct. However the team signed him to the 53. He couldn't have faded in thier opinions so fast that he got cut..

Why not?

James is being considered against several other players for spots on the 53 or Practice Squad. In addition, there was the issue of Gonzo starting the season injured and Woods being new to the team and a major question mark.

At the time of the cut, with neither Gonzo or Woods ready to play, James was considered more ready to take in-season reps than Battle, Ballentine and Minor (I guess that Ballentine added a bit later).

Now we are several weeks down the road. Gonzo is more ready. Woods is more ready. James was not even deemed ready enough to take any reps with both not ready to play, even with Austin not looking good.
========
I don't see any issue with going forward with Gonzo, Davis, Jones, Austin, and Woods, with 3 on the Practice Squad available to be elevated or activated.
==
THE CURRENT EVALUATION OF JAMES
Why hasn't James signed to a team's 53?
Why hasn't James been signed to a team's Practice Squad?
Even if he has a minor (undisclosed) injury, he should be worth a Practice Squad spot to some team if he is seen to have much potential.

 

[TommyD4207]

^this
I saw that they were in zone 80-85% of the time. I would think this will change once Gonzo is at 100%.
Gonzo and Davis both can play man very well. that will allow one of the safeties to play deep.

because the team was in zone mostly all day, they sent 4 at Tua. good news, the 4 got to Tua especially down the stretch.

what I did not like from the coaching staff against Miami was the lack of adjustments made. the defense started very strong. Miami's offense adjusted, and started to make plays. the Pats defense never adjusted...

why?

Adjust how? I mean, again, the other option was leaving Alex Austin on an island with Hill or Waddle, neither sounds like a great plan to me. It was a patient gameplan, hope the front 4 wear down Miami's o-line, and they did, when it mattered most.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I agree but where is Elliss' upside plays? Can you give us some examples? Some plays where Elliss does something other than shoot the gap in front of him independent if it is the correct gap or not? Can you show us any plays where Elliss successfully covers the TE or RB?

Where has Elliss shown that he is better than Peppers?

Just want to clarify what I meant by "upside play". I didn't mean specifically on the field, just the general idea that they viewed it as keeping a young player whose best football is ahead of him and playing himself into his salary. The "upside play" was in reference to that contractual bet they made, not something specifically on the field. We'll see if that does or doesn't materialize.

As far him being better than Peppers, there's a lot that goes into that roster decision. For one, it's a different position although there's probably enough duplication there between box safety and STs to compare. But If Peppers didn't fit what they were trying to do, he probably doesn't take as well to a reduced role. They might not have liked his attitude in general. Maybe health concerns? Idk. But certainly on paper it seems obvious they kept the lesser player which is a head scratcher.

 

[Brick27]

This post is idiotic and ignorant. You have no clue what the nature of this man's medical issues are, and you have no right to assume "salad and drink a coconut" water fix it. The only thing that is ludicrous is your post. Here are the facts.

1. In March, Williams had a "health scare" and did not share specifics. He spoke about having a wakeup call, eat right, taking meds, and working out. He addressed it, and said his mind was clear. To me, a logical explanation is diabetes and high blood pressure. Type 1 is genetic and Type 2 is workable. This is just a guess, but it fits. Perhaps a heart issue fits as well, but I don't think so because he needs a longer recovery. These are just guesses.

2. On August 4, Williams was treated for dehydration after collapsing during practice. The weather was mostly sunny and 82 degrees. There is no evidence this was related to the first health issue. It can happed to anyone and does not have to be related.

3. On September 10, Vrabel said, Williams was gone due to "unforeseen circumstances." Vrabel said 3 days ago that Williams is expected to rejoin the team. We have no idea if its related to the other circumstances.

That is all we know. Only an idiot jumps to the conclusion that you did. How about this? Did you know that Williams' 4 year old son, Tyson, died of a sudden, unexpected illness? Tyson passed away at Oakland Children's Hospital after being hospitalized for over a week and shortly after celebrating his birthday. The cause of death was never publicly disclosed. So sit down and shut up. You have no right to criticize Williams. You are a clueless idiot fan who has no idea what this guy is facing. The father might be showing symptoms that the son died of, and they are being cautious.