Is the 2025 defensive coaching Sub-Par ( Williams / Kuhr)

[Real fan 02]

I don't disagree that the secondary is worse at the moment but its doesn't excuse the poor play of the linebackers particularly when it comes down to fundamentals such as tackling.

We are 5th in the league in rushing yards allowed.. 3.0 average.. our DL and LBs are a direct result of why... when the secondary is giving up big chunk plays the LBs are forced to compensate and play in space.. as I mentioned before.. achane is a tough cover for any LB.. prime ray Lewis would have trouble with a back like achane.. guys have to man up and play with pride in the secondary.

 

[mgteich]

So you're leaving either Hill or Waddle one-on-one with Alex Austin?

no

Davis should have one of them.

Jones should have the other with a second player helping out.

Tua was and is capable of destroying zone coverage.

 

[mgteich]

We cut DJ James and did kobee minor play any snaps? He can't be any worse?
.. goes back to why I said we should had still been in on another Veteran.. be nice if gilly signed back..

Don't blame Minor, he played 2 snaps on ST's. He was just an emergency STer in case someone was injured.

Our secondary was almost always Jones, Davis, Austin, Woodson, and Hawkins. Duggar got a few reps at safety.

Who would you sit down in order to play James (who must be starting somewhere)?

We should add a CB if we can find one, in case of a 2nd injury. But let's be clear. James isn't the answer any more than Ballentine or the rest. Whoever would help would need to be good enough to take reps away from Austin.

 

[Rob0729]

We are two games in. They are implementing a new system with a new starters and the best player on defense out. It could be that this team needs a month or so to gel and become a solid defense.

I will point to the 2001 Patriots defense as an example. That season had a lot of turnover on the defensive side of the ball from the year before. The defense started the season nothing special, but gave up the fewest points in the league in the second half of that season. It needed time to gel.

 

[mgteich]

We are two games in. They are implementing a new system with a new starters and the best player on defense out. It could be that this team needs a month or so to gel and become a solid defense.

I will point to the 2001 Patriots defense as an example. That season had a lot of turnover on the defensive side of the ball from the year before. The defense started the season nothing special, but gave up the fewest points in the league in the second half of that season. It needed time to gel.

There has been great turnover on the front seven. They have played very well except when they are called up to drop back in coverage.
=========
In the secondary, we have replaced Jon Jones with Davis. We have replaced Peppers with Woodson. Do they need a lot of time? I think that it is the coaching staff that needs the time.

 

[Real fan 02]

Don't blame Minor, he played 2 snaps on ST's. He was just an emergency STer in case someone was injured.

Our secondary was almost always Jones, Davis, Austin, Woodson, and Hawkins. Duggar got a few reps at safety.

Who would you sit down in order to play James (who must be starting somewhere)?

We should add a CB if we can find one, in case of a 2nd injury. But let's be clear. James isn't the answer any more than Ballentine or the rest. Whoever would help would need to be good enough to take reps away from Austin.

When Austin was having his struggles he could have just been winded in Miami it happens.. DJ James could have been a guy in the rotation to at least give a different look to Miami.. anyhow.. the drop off from gonzo to the next guy is glaring.

 

[mgteich]

Let's focus.

AGREEING WITH YOU, the #1 need for improvement is at DC, the play-calling and the coaching of the secondary. Make no mistake, we have a good enough Defense to make up for Gonzo being out.

Personally, I think that we are in great shape going forward after surprisingly good performances from the entire Offense and from the Defensive front seven.

 

[p8ryts]

I wonder if Zak Kuhr having to take on the coordinator role has had an impact on the coaching and performance of our inside linebackers

They have 22 coaches, so Kuhr has responsibility for a handful of players. The starters are veterans. I can't accept that his dual role has that much impact on them. I understood Vrabel was going to be more involved also.

 

[mgteich]

They have 22 coaches, so Kuhr has responsibility for a handful of players. The starters are veterans. I can't accept that his dual role has that much impact on them. I understood Vrabel was going to be more involved also.

1) The inside ILB's have been so well coached so that Kuhn has shown us that he has earned a promotion?
2) The secondary coaching and defensive play-calling needs improvement. How is Kuhn the answer. Does he have solid experience in those roles?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Peppers/Digger are hybrid types that tend to be scheme specific. Not an indictment on this staff if they don't fit IMO.

Spillane is a decent player, nothing more. Elliss was an upside play to keep - not actually a good player yet. Don't see a huge red flag in the coaching with either of them not being great.

White missed 1/2 games. Seems early to rip him I think.

Overall I think the talent in this group was overrated. There's some good pieces, but also some serious weaknesses on positional levels. I view this defense like a water dam...

Sometimes things aren't gradual. It's like a dam blocking the flow of water. it can be one million square feet, but if there's one small hole then water is getting through. But it doesn't mean the whole one million square feet is bad. Plug up that one hole and it works again. I think this defense is overall solid on paper but there's some serious weaknesses that will make them look terrible at times. But another offseason to patch up those deficiencies and I think they'll be poised to be a terrific unit.

I agree but where is Elliss' upside plays? Can you give us some examples? Some plays where Elliss does something other than shoot the gap in front of him independent if it is the correct gap or not? Can you show us any plays where Elliss successfully covers the TE or RB?

Where has Elliss shown that he is better than Peppers?

 

[KCSVEN]

I think it's more talent than coaching but they both have factored in. Some of the play calls like the blitz on the 3rd and long vs Raiders have occasionally been suspect. I thought the game plan vs both was good coming into the games.
There is a sore spot in LB coverage that they just don't seem to have the talent to fix easily. Alex Austin has had some bad moments but as a 3rd CB he'd be fine, so missing Gonzalez has hurt for sure.

In the end they have given up 20 points in both games (removing the Special teams score). The opposition hasn't been top offense but 20 points a game should win you the majority of games.

On a positive note, they don't face many top offenses, and they get Gonzalez back so improvement should come. Maybe using Mapu a bit more in LB coverage can alleviate the fact Ellis is lost in coverage, Run defense is solid. All about pass defense. A 102 and a 115 pass rating against is not going to cut it.
Let's see how much that improves with a shutdown corner. Woodson and Austin getting valuable playing experience will hopefully lead to improvement.

With Gonzalez back the glaring needs would be a LB that can cover, a more consistent DE pass rusher and a playmaking safety. But you can't have it all rebuilt in 1 year.

 

[Toofy]

I think it's more talent than coaching but they both have factored in. Some of the play calls like the blitz on the 3rd and long vs Raiders have occasionally been suspect. I thought the game plan vs both was good coming into the games.
There is a sore spot in LB coverage that they just don't seem to have the talent to fix easily. Alex Austin has had some bad moments but as a 3rd CB he'd be fine, so missing Gonzalez has hurt for sure.

In the end they have given up 20 points in both games (removing the Special teams score). The opposition hasn't been top offense but 20 points a game should win you the majority of games.

On a positive note, they don't face many top offenses, and they get Gonzalez back so improvement should come. Maybe using Mapu a bit more in LB coverage can alleviate the fact Ellis is lost in coverage, Run defense is solid. All about pass defense. A 102 and a 115 pass rating against is not going to cut it.
Let's see how much that improves with a shutdown corner. Woodson and Austin getting valuable playing experience will hopefully lead to improvement.

With Gonzalez back the glaring needs would be a LB that can cover, a more consistent DE pass rusher and a playmaking safety. But you can't have it all rebuilt in 1 year.

Balanced view.

Why is Spillane looking so lost on this team when he was one of the league leaders on tackles last year(91 vs top score of 98 tackles).

Can understand the Cornerback issue. But is more zone coverage exposing these linebackers and making them seem worse than they actually are. Even if that's the case , why so many missed open tackles . That can't be a talent thing when they did well last year.

 

[Edelmania]

I know right....he should have them better prepared to perform a pee wee league technique.......tackle.

Coverage has been as much of an issue for them as tackling

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

There is a sore spot in LB coverage that they just don't seem to have the talent to fix easily.

I love your posts as much as anyone on PatsFans, but this is a self-obvious post. Penalties are not good! WOW. Allowing chunk plays by the opposing team are not good! WOW. Pats LBs that can not cover the opposing TE or RB are not good! Should I continue? Vrabel picked his LBs, and Vrabel's 2025 LBs suck. It is concerning because Vrabel is picking the LBs (Spillane and Elliss) and Vrabel used to be a LB in the NFL.

Alex Austin has had some bad moments but as a 3rd CB he'd be fine, so missing Gonzalez has hurt for sure.

I agree.

In the end they have given up 20 points in both games (removing the Special teams score). The opposition hasn't been top offense but 20 points a game should win you the majority of games.

20 points a game against the Raiders and Dolphins is AWFUL. In the games where the Dolphins and Raiders were not playing the Pats those teams scored an average of 8.5 points per game. You forgot to mention that? You have to remove ST scores to improve the Pats' defensive performance to an average of 20 points per game? WOW! You nearly slipped that by me. (Not really ). So when the Pats defense is on the field it is a 20 point average, and otherwise it is a 8.5 point average? You forgot to mention the whole picture? Do better!!!!

On a positive note, they don't face many top offenses, and they get Gonzalez back so improvement should come. Maybe using Mapu a bit more in LB coverage can alleviate the fact Ellis is lost in coverage, Run defense is solid. All about pass defense. A 102 and a 115 pass rating against is not going to cut it.
Let's see how much that improves with a shutdown corner. Woodson and Austin getting valuable playing experience will hopefully lead to improvement.

I agree.

With Gonzalez back the glaring needs would be a LB that can cover, a more consistent DE pass rusher and a playmaking safety. But you can't have it all rebuilt in 1 year.

I agree.

 

[maust]

Trying to figure out which it will be is like one time - don't ask - I had to drive home without my eyeglasses, peering out through my uncorrectedly legally blind eyes, trying to decipher all those blurry shapes.

Why do I not find it all surprising you were perfectly willing to risk the lives of everyone else on or near the road at the time rather than just getting a ride?

 

[Thelonious]

Why do I not find it all surprising you were perfectly willing to risk the lives of everyone else on or near the road at the time rather than just getting a ride?

Gosh, I don't know. Maybe because you are a whiny little prig.

 

[signbabybrady]

Gosh, I don't know. Maybe because you are a whiny little prig.

 

[Thelonious]

Do you have some sort of crush on me? Is that what this is all about?

I never block anybody, but I may make an exception in your sad case.

 

[rkarp1]

They played a LOT of zone. Way more than usual. There was very little man coverage the entire game.

^this
I saw that they were in zone 80-85% of the time. I would think this will change once Gonzo is at 100%.
Gonzo and Davis both can play man very well. that will allow one of the safeties to play deep.

because the team was in zone mostly all day, they sent 4 at Tua. good news, the 4 got to Tua especially down the stretch.

what I did not like from the coaching staff against Miami was the lack of adjustments made. the defense started very strong. Miami's offense adjusted, and started to make plays. the Pats defense never adjusted...

why?

 

[rkarp1]

Let me ask again was Carlton Davis III on Malik Washington?? Because Hill and Waddle was still making catches: IF yes why wasn't he on either Hill or Waddle?? He's getting Big bucks??

your asking a question that was already answered.
Davis was not on Washington. because the defense was in zone 80-85% of the game.
if you look at the targets against stat, Davis' zone was barely thrown at